Over-equipping - here we go....

[Mowatx]

MY vote on OE = NO ...

way way to many reason's .. and most of them
have allreayd been stated.. leave the freaking
game mechanics ALONE period end of story etc.
If you feel we are doing to much dmg drop the
dmg on the guns then drop the dmg on the mobs
etc etc.. but for the love of god don't change the
entire way the game was designed for a bunch
of whining lazy people. It's a 4 year game.. if you
don't have enuff time to spend on your char to uber
equip you eventually will. In the mean time yes be
prepared to get out dmg'd killed outright in pvp etc.
You will catch up and you will even out.

Mowatx

[Gyson]

I feel over-equipping has ruined far too many aspects of this game, everything from balanced character building to overall game-world balance has been thrown out the window. The truth is these problems should have been nipped in the bud immediately before players began adapting their play styles to what essentially boils down to a flaw in the game’s design. Heck, I wouldn’t mind seeing belts and implants being subject in some form to the over-equipping changes. At any rate, I’m pleased to see this change coming as it’s better late than never, I suppose.

On a side note, I think the numbers in the polls just goes to show how little of AO’s population these forums actually represent. Clearly there are more than 400 people playing this game.

[________________Unas]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
One thing that I've considered is taking down names. If it's 'us' vs. 'them' we might as well put our money where our mouths are.

LOL, count me in. I'll send you a tell later today when I get logged on. My main is Nebre.

Unas

Nebre - 112 meta

[____________Claybats]

So far I am for the patch. Then again being an NT it doesn't look like it will affect me much. My Engineer won't feel it either.

[_______________Skara]

I am tired so this rambles a bit

Several people have posted that this patch will lead to cookie cutter syndrome. What do we have now?

I am always open to the possibility that I could be wrong, but I think this patch will make some of the other classes more important (by other classes I mean the ones that aren't the flavor of the month including some that never have been .

Go to the forums and read posts where newbies are looking for advice about starting a character. If the game were balanced, the answer would be "read the descriptions, read the forums for a few classes you like, then start a character of the one you like the best". Currently the answer to that question is a small handful of classes. If implemented properly and tested thoroughly, this patch would help balance the classes. Not make them boringly equal, balanced.

If you were playing monopoly and the person with the car always got an extra $100 when they passed GO, how many people are going to want to be the dog or the ship? If you like the ship, there shouldn't be any penalties to playing the ship, but under that rule there is. Since certain classes are currently much easier to OE, that is exactly where Anarchy Online is currently.

By implementing these changes before they balance any other classes, hopefully they can prevent the trend where people run to the class of the month because they are now overly powerful. Engineers and MP's are a perfect example. How many are running around now who wouldn't be if they weren't as powerful as they are?

When Aimed Shot owned, how many Agent twinks were running around, not because they liked the description of the class, but because it was so easy to gank?

Since the games inception, certain classes have been easier to overequip, which has nothing to do with knowing more about the game or willingness to work harder than others. It has to do with knowing which classes are easier to "uber" and that makes other classes worth less, this patch will be a step in the right direction toward fixing that syndrome.

Good example of the above, if you have room for one more in your group and you see Fixer lfg, Adventurer lfg, and Engineer lfg, who are you going to take? With the game more balanced the decision should require some thought based on the other members in your team.

People keep claiming they should be uber because they have more experience than newbies. That is valid to a point. The problem is the application of that experience is more a matter of knowing which class is the easiest to uber, getting a guild mate to wrangle you, muling some items and creds to the new character, and knowing to use nano nanny for implants.

Traders will need additional balancing. The whole game will need additional balancing, but fixing this issue must be handled first. A good look at weapons needs to happen soon as an example.

Yes Funcom made the game so people could overequip. Apparently the mechanics weren't thoroughly tested and people are able to OE more than Funcom had intended (Ex. apparently no one thought people would go through the trouble to step implants to get that extra boost), thus the balancing changes (the Frequent Customer change to self only was one of those changes).

The bottom line, this patch will help the Role-Play aspect of the game because people will start playing a class that fits the role they would like to assume, not play one of the characters that are the easiest to twink. At the same time, the game will still allow people to work hard at optimizing their character.


Skara

[_______Heart of Evil]

Originally posted by Drabin

This poll will get bigger. This poll is the offical poll of the OE part of this patch for the first 30 (THIRTY) pages of the thread. As I look at the rest of hte pages I will edit and update. Thanks

If it wasn't obvious, please add my name to the 'I think the patch sux' list.

This patch will be the doom of your game. So speaketh the mad prophet.

[_______________Saint]

Cool. More change. I like it. Eventhough I`m not OE`ing, so I will not be troubled by this. I solo yellow MOBs "easy" and orange with a slight sweat. And should 3 oranges go nuts on me, I run like there is no tomorrow. With the change I do not know how this will be, but I`m not really worried either. If this means oranges will be easier due to lowered HP`s, I will up the difficulty slider a bit, and should I find yellows outright kill me, I`ll lower it accordingly. I like a challange, but I do not fancy myself up against reds. Me and my pal tried once, and died horribly. So I know what they mean: RED=Avoid. As it should be I think. If people can whoop reds without worries, it worries me.

But I look forward to EACH AND EVERY patch and update. I am exited about seeing what they have done. Usually they make them to better the game, so I appreciate it. Sometimes it goes to the netherworld with the patch, but somehow, I survive that too. Might just be me having a tough hide? I have an extensive collection of maps and plants now, but I don`t cry too much. I guess they will fix it sometime. If not, I`ll just live with the fact that they so enjoy putting maps in trapped and locked chests... Not that I fathom why anyone would do that LOL

But still, Rubi-Ka is a world with its own rules, and Funcom makes the rules. I find it odd that people post stuff like "dont change this, we are meant to overequip", and "you made the game this way, we just use your system". Its Funcom that knows what they meant this world to be. And if they say people are not using this the way they intended, they are making the game more like they wanted it to be. (the game is not really finished, so change is inevitable for some time yet)

So, adapt. Or die off. Just like in nature. Some tackle change and adapt, others cease to exist. Good old Darwinism. Good old Funcom.

[Ruebben]

Phew, quite a few emotions here... Well, I think I'll add my two guilders, err make that euro's... Hmmm, wait a minute, they nerfed my money!!! Now I can only add 0.9076 Euro's to this thread :( Whaaa #$%&##$%... (whine, whine, whine, yaddieyadda, bla, bla....)

Back to the subject at hand. First of all I'm totally thumbs-up for this patch. Many ppl seem to ask for credentials before they take others seriously. You won't get them. Let's suffice to say that I'm playing from day 1 of release, is that enough for you?

Sure there needs to be some rebalancing done with the release of the patch. Sure, there will be some exploits or abuses (some players seem possessed about finding those things). Some will be happy, some won't... But one thing is for sure, this needs to be done.

Isn't it realy absurd that some players are able to equip weapons or equipment 2 times, or more, there level? Sure this is a game, I'm all for a little fantasy and absurdity now and then. But this.....
Yes, high level soloing is very difficult. That is because FunCom tried to balance out all those over equippers by introducing a steeper curve on the NPC difficulty. This happend a while ago, a few complained but not many. Now there are quite a few casual players (who are not less than more regular players mind you, some tend to think otherwise) who have reached the levels the regular players reached at the time FunCom made the changes. Those 'casual' players do not have the time, money or just don't want to over equip. So offcourse they complain now, they should :) And they should be able to solo... What has this to do with OE? All in all I think FunCom is trying to make it possible for 'casual' players to solo more effectivly (SP?)

PVP... Hehe, I won't even try to touch this subject (ouch). Other than saying that I believe FunCom initial design for PVP was it to be for groups. I think any attempt to try figuring PVP out for 1 on 1 is going to fail bacuase of that.

IP-reset stuff... Yeah great! Although I have one point and this can be said for the OE changes as well: Uniqueness...
I think that regular (hardcore?) players should have an advantage over casual players. They take the time to develop there character, get equipment, etc... A problem I fear is that it will be close to impossible to be unique and succesfull. With the IPR-points any player of a class can dupe the most succesfull player and be quite as effective (except for a few items maybe).

So yeah, I do have two points:

- Balance of NPC's with the OE-changes
- Uniqueness of regular players

And since I'm posting anyway and nobody will read my post (who will dig through around 70 pages?? Okay, Cz and few other wierdos (no insult intended Cz!) maybe), I wanna make a few compliments on the FunCom team. I don't think you guys hear this enough though :)

As a (somewhat) experienced programmer and designer I can relate to the hell it is to devise, design, program and manage such a monster this game must be. On the other hand, I've never worked (luckily :) on something as large as this. What I've experienced so far is first class and daring programming. Anyone telling me otherwise may first study for software engineer and get a few years of experience before even trying to tell me otherwise :) To be honest, I'd be discouraged with some of the voices in this playerbase... You guys get two thumbs-up from me for this game and the effort put into it.

Maybe someday I hope to design my own MMORPG (he, if ever, would be a dream come true though :), but I hope for a more considerate player base.

Oh yeah, for all you ppl: This IS a game you know... Real Life is a lot more serious and chalanging (SP?) btw...

Well now for the war-whoop (I love my dictionary ;) : Let the flaming commence!

Greetz...

[TemplarRed]

Originally posted by Drabin
Okay the poll is finished and up to date and I made the corrections for those of you who asked me to swap you to pro or con and/or to add you to the list if I missed you.

How did I make the positive list? I've been going on & on about how 14.2 is going to ruin the game for mid-level Traders, mid-level Agents, & PvP Pet-users. No, this does not apply to me, but I'd prefer not to see the game spoiled for anyone (or dumbed-down, for that matter...).

/me is NEGATIVE! -Templar Red

[_____________Asmodan]

You know what bugs me.... lack of clarification on a couple important details.

If I have a gun equipped that takes Assault Rifle, SMG/MG, Burst, Flingshot, and Fullauto and I am within 80% of everything but say... Flingshot, do I get the whole 25% penalty? Does it only apply to my flingshots?

The reverse is true, do you only have to meet 80% of one requirement? If so, this won't stop most people then, since most weapons that use more than one skill have one nice low requirment.

Same with armor, if I only have 75% in one stat but I'm fine in the other do I still lose the whole 25%? Do I lose 12.5%? Do I lose nothing?

Hell, I can see the bugs now.... I have the afformentioned gun on and I and under 80% in three categories so the server hands me a -75% modifier.

[____________Phelisha]

MASS EXODUS TO UO!!!!

[allenfox]

Originally posted by Gokudan


Can't speak for MP's but a trader has to rebuff the wrangle every 3 mins, that makes us useless on OE and giving pets :/

Originally posted by Wutto


Plus they have better things to do than helping you get ur pet or weapon on.

I actually DO play a trader (my alt - now my main) I'll come along and give you a wrangle every 3 mins in a mission - plus I'll be happy to mop up on the xp. And we have better things to do? like what? We are just running around on the same level treadmill together anyway. Better to do it in a team.

The point of my original post is this is a MMORPG --- I just hate the concept of soloing most of the game anyway. While its cool once an a while - missions have made the game feel more like a single player game with a bunch of other people around. People need to be pushed toward a more team enviroment. The more each class is unique and better suited for a team - great! I'm not saying kill soloing but make it MUCH MUCH HARDER. Doing 50% missions on your own should be scary!

Anyway the above stuff is a bit off topic. As for the OE stuff - It's interesting. I'll admit I'm a freakin' super twink thanks to my other characters that can provide me with the funds to do it. I don't care if I have to step down to stuff more my level - I just pray they lower mob hp! I do think the way funcom is putting this into the game is a bit strange. One of the best posts I have read on the subject is Bionitrous's post. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

2 thumbs up on the IPR an the sneak stuff! My only question is: Will you be considered OE if a trader debuffs you to a point where the forumla says your OE or does it ignore combat type debuffs like deprive and ransack?

[Highorbit]

Originally posted by Phelisha
MASS EXODUS TO UO!!!!

Well go then... I don't want to!

[_____________kratify]

Originally posted by Krui
I think the proposal is going to be a mathematical nightmare, particularly for items with multiple requirements. Items that are just over certain step breaks (21%, 41% etc) are going to be worse than the ones 3 QL lower. Throw in a rounding error and people will be spitting blood because their optimal gun turns out to be 1 QL too high. <snip>

OH ya - what about when you are <=20% OE on 2 of 3 skills to use an item/weapon, and say 21+% OE on the 3rd? Does that then gimp the item/weapon -25%? Or will it be some ratio relative to the difference between the skills I do make it on and the one I don't? This is gonna be fun! not...

I can see it now. This will be the patch that gets 300 ".1, .11, .12, .131, .132, etc." mini-patches just to make it so I can zone without dying because I happen to be 20+% OE with a chair! (tongue in cheek).

From the unmanageable amount of posts this thread is gettin, it will take Cz and company a month to just make sense of them all! I encourage the funcom gang to proceed with caution on this (as yet) hypothetical patch.

...reading...reading...
~Bravvo~

[Pugwash]

well say goodbye to the engineer and mp classes



this patch will ruin them


just my opinion is all

[camilaen]

Originally posted by Drabin
Damn you all you reposters!!! Yer giving me a headache!!! hehehe.

I finally caught up to 50 friggin pages but I see so many people reposting crap that I want to bonk them!!

Anyways, thus far the positive output for the patch is a landslide for. I'll keep calculating until the current page and then I'm done with the official post from there. If anyone else wants to keep up with it once I'm up to date you are welcome to do so.

I place no faith in your count, I see too many people saying that they are put on the wrong side.. as I am! I am not "neutral". I an AGAINST the 14.2 patch... got it?

[______________Vashti]

When this new patch comes out theres going to be some serious changes in strategies for some proffessions. My point will be on the Trader, because that is the character i've recently been playing.

The importance of a skill wrangle to equip items is going to be going to be non existant for us as a sorce of income, where it will be more important as a way to boost the power of the team we will be in. This is totally a different aproach to the proffesion and a little nerfing for us. (because when we wrangle our team, we will be instantly OE'd). I dont know about any one else but in a team i like to take part in doing some damage.

Also, In a PVP situation, a trader is going to have a steep advantage over any of the other classes because of their power to force a player into OE.

The way this class is played will probly need to be looked at a bit.
My first idea to make things balance a little more was to make the negative effects of wrangles, deprives, and ransacks be shorter and the positive effects be longer. Doing this, the handicap we will experience in a team will be shortened and make us more apt to actually want to use the wrangles. It will also decrease our almost godly advantage on the PVP field.

Just something to think about...
Bring on the flames,
VASH

[___________Zyxlquith]

Drabin, you are pro- 14.2 and obviously this biases your poll. You've also made SEVERAL mistakes, as people have told you. If I were conducting such a poll, i'm sure the numbers would be just about the opposite of yours, as I tend to read the more neutral : "FIX THE BUGS PLEASE" posts as anti 14.2

and...... this isn't about 14.2 but about Gaute's proposed solution to over-equipping. 14.2 in general sounds great. Over-equipping, if dealt with some other way, might also be great......

thanks for putting forth the effort though.

[camilaen]

Originally posted by Crymcyn


That is, quite simply, wrong. You obviously know nothing about implants.

Emmm... Think twice before ripping apart a post and just posting this small sentence here. You are making accusations with no grounds at all... Believe me

[camilaen]

Originally posted by Drabin
Okay the poll is finished and up to date and I made the corrections for those of you who asked me to swap you to pro or con and/or to add you to the list if I missed you.

If anyone wants to keep tabs on this or add to it later on please feel free to do so.

I just wanted to give FC and CZ a chance to see past the outpoor of responses and get an idea of who feels what.

Take care and enjoy.

Bah!

Cz, please do NOT use this list.. it is blatantly wrong I am not neutral to it, I am against it

Put up a one account - one vote poll! You can do it guys