Over-equipping - here we go....

[hexxia]

Originally posted by Desbet


I hate to sound insensitive but, I don't care.
I've played both NT and MA. You don't lose the programs/moves you used 1 lvl ago, if you deleted the move you're very very silly. Debuffs have -=always=- been in the game. and and reasoning player knows they need a backup incase that happens.

Use the lower ql move/NF you had 1 or 5lvls ago. and run. Like the rest of us.

Too many people -like- this patch. learn to deal.

/me has no sympathy.

sorry.

actually, the moves are unique now, with the last rules you CANT HAVE more than one of the same MA moves now (eg at a different QL)

[hexxia]

Originally posted by Rhayden
Cz, Please .. PLEASE reply to this. (No I have not read the whole thread.. My eyes were hurting after page 10)

Aight, according to Cz a 21% OE will decrease weapon damage by 25%. Wouldn't this DECREASE the dmg output so much that it would be better to do a 0% OE?

So equiping a better weapon would actually hit you so hard you would get less dmg than a perfect fit?

What about 19% OE? This would be the new pinnacle in optimal performance then. iow, giving you 100%+19% = 119% performance.

I'll write up a lil table.

19% OE = 100% + 19% = 119% w/ No penalty = 119% dmg

20% OE = 100% + 20% = 120% w/ 25% penalty = 95% dmg
39% OE = 100% + 39% = 139% w/ 25% penalty = 114% dmg

40% OE = 100% + 40% = 140% w/ 50% penalty = 90% dmg
59% OE = 100% + 59% = 159% w/ 50% penalty = 109% dmg

Ok, as you see from this table, the more you EO, the harder you get hit by each 25% decreas in dmg. (since the limit steps in 20% and the dmg caps in 25% steps each time)

The new optimal OE would be 19% OE. So guess I would have to ditch my QL148 Vektor on my lvl30 Trader then and go for a exact 19% OE.

I feel sorry for the ones that just got on a QL200 Vektor then, hoping that when OE patch came that -- THE GUN WOULD BE ATLEAST AS EFFICIENT AS ONE THAT COULD BE USED WITH NO OE --.

As far as I remember, you Cz responded to his post, saying that would be logical... Still think so?

lvl 30s shouldnt be using 148 guns, you see.

vektors dont go up to ql 200, so I feel sorry for those who just got one, too.

[_______________Exmax]

Well the OE is bad when a lvl 10 charactar goets a ql 50 nova. But hey they got not enough NCU to dothis if they not have used the NCU bug! So a normal ql 10 charactar mavy gets a ql 20 nova if he is luckey. N00b in AO who doesn't understand the buf consept will be left behind. I adviced my friend to make a charactar and play it to 20 and thenstart a new one. He made much beter on th second charactar sins he new what buffs are now. But why ruin the trader! he can deprive and ransack himself to better gunz! and then stack an wrangel. And traders really need this EO cuz they zuck otherwise.

I will quit if this patch is so bad as it sounds! if all my team members hits will decrese and we no longer can do fun missions whats the point to continue!

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Uziel
well I will make this short and simple, everyone out there that is mad about overequipping basically does not know how to overequip so they flame everyone else for doing it.

LOL another first time poster.

Anyways, you're wrong, some of us are experts at it and want the patch badly.

Just remember, for every person that quits, another will return to AO because they were fed up with the class imbalance and insane OE.

So... buh-bye.

[Wutania]

does anyone know if they will extend the duration on the wrangles due to this otherwise we will have to keep casting this program every min or 2 and that will be very nano intensive.if anyone knows please let me know

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by Jeek500
Barabadin

Ive killed you before.

trammel? ... TRAMMEL?!??
/lookout
I see no stinking Trammel here!

sure while you're at is why not make an over the head floating chat so i can exicute my "wisquas" script and pretend to cast 40 spells at once and only do the ones i -trully- want in secret so i can win a pvp.

PFFFT!

I don't care what people say, this patch will be good. FC will not kill OE, they will make it fair.

If someone on their team had the magical talent of answers and so said, "The general percentage of reduction for OE should be X" then -everything- would be ballanced in this game. Near lvl players could fight one and other with -intelligence- rather than OE Experteice. (just try to buy that NF)

I'm an intelligent player. I've never been killed by another player who hasn't Uber OE'd. I welcome this patch. (yes some of those encounters meant me running like a biyaaaatch screaming for help from my team :P ) but hey, its all good in the end. its fun to lose sometimes. it makes winning worth something.

i love you FC, even if they don't. I'm willing to pay a programer's salery for you if i have to to make 14.2 happen.

XX's & OO's

heheh
LOL even.
now fix my name. i wanna be known as Desbet (my origional agent) not Despet.

Rhayden said:
The new optimal OE would be 19% OE. So guess I would have to ditch my QL148 Vektor on my lvl30 Trader then and go for a exact 19% OE.

I say its fitting that you get punished for exploitation. for the abuse of OE. PUNISHMENT isn't fun. suffer the wrath of 14.2
go buy a new rifle for yourself with the $20k you **** from the public for the wrangles you've done. you have no sympathy from me. (i've seen ppl ask for 60k! i'm just assuming you're the genrous type. ... are you? have you done anything but TAKE? Have you done your fair share of lvl'ing? have you done ANYTHING about making your character 'desirve' that weapon you have? i think not.)

OE have no sympathy from me. and i'll go play now, because i'm mad. and ppl complaining about this patch will only get me madder.

grow up.
(appolgies! I'm sure you're a good person and a worthy player who has just used the current system to maximum advantage like any -good- power gammer (like me) would do... its just that ppl complaining about something so needed as this patch have angered me and i'm venting)

and Cz didn't force me to say that either

[Maephina]

This patch looks good in print and if implimented even HALF as correctly as it is written, I feel this will go a long way to take this game towards what it's supposed to be in the first place...a ROLE PLAYING GAME!

For so long AO has, for me, been a wonderful game with the oppourtunity for everyone that plays it to explore and develope their own story/s and adventures.
I think too much emphasis has been placed on how powerful a character is or how high the QL of thier equipment might be and not enough on role playing this individual on Rubi Ka.
I know a lot of poeple in game that say they wanna role play but...then they say "well there seem to be so few RPers in game I just mission and hunt and PVP" on and on.

Well ya know, if more people realised that PLAYING in character can bring a lot more depth to their game and just took the initiative themselfs, there'd be a lot more role players around.

STOP WAITING for other people to suck you into their story and make your own!

This patch is going to make this game a lot more challenging, and challenge is half the fun.
This patch will make equipment in this game that at present seems completely worthless a hot commodity.

As an MP I know the risk of losing control of my pets is going to be greatly increased but ya know...as with everything else I have dealt with on AO...the lag, the many crashes, the downtime, people quoting Sting (hehehe)....
I will simply have to adapt and play on...just-like-everyone-else.

Mae

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by hexxia


actually, the moves are unique now, with the last rules you CANT HAVE more than one of the same MA moves now (eg at a different QL)

REALLY?!? wow. didn't know that. i had 3 bird of prey moves in my pack. thats been undone? wow. undo that !! with this new system you're going to neuter MA's who don't have a back up. (there see i'm nice enough to admit it!)
Havn't played MA in awhile, hmm was afewweeks prior to 13.8 when i didn't like it.

I suppose its still possible though. have snake of ql 20 (example) and bird of prey at ql 40.. or oppisite that actually. I like Bird more. Instead of having all ql(highest possible), have 1 or 2 at lower ql incase of ransack.. .witch you should basically plan for anyway. since i've gotten atleast 1 depribe/ransak per mission i've done.

good point man, i didn't know that.. but with alittle help from FC ballance can still be maintained with 14.2. *undo that no multiple move of same type/ql thing!*

[hexxia]

Originally posted by Desbet


REALLY?!? wow. didn't know that. i had 3 bird of prey moves in my pack. thats been undone? wow. undo that !! with this new system you're going to neuter MA's who don't have a back up. (there see i'm nice enough to admit it!)
Havn't played MA in awhile, hmm was afewweeks prior to 13.8 when i didn't like it.

I suppose its still possible though. have snake of ql 20 (example) and bird of prey at ql 40.. or oppisite that actually. I like Bird more. Instead of having all ql(highest possible), have 1 or 2 at lower ql incase of ransack.. .witch you should basically plan for anyway. since i've gotten atleast 1 depribe/ransak per mission i've done.

good point man, i didn't know that.. but with alittle help from FC ballance can still be maintained with 14.2. *undo that no multiple move of same type/ql thing!*

a lot of the moves lock the special for a long time though *shrug* but yeah, upgrading different lines in case of varying degree of ransack wont be much fun :-) on the bright side, some MA specials have very low requirements, so should be hard to debuff in PvM to a point they cant be used.... its losing the big heals that hurt me more :-)

[Skalhus]

I think this is an important issue for the game and im looking for a way to get better in any way my self !
And if im gonna stand some chanse in mission i must twink my self in any way to get that hammer or gun so i wont die in solo hunt or mission!
I haven`t twinked myself yet but im looking for any one that will help so when i do.....Hey let me do it and u who dont want it u can let it be but dont stop me please!!
I i think that the game is about to learn ways to explore the world of AO and get better!!
And if someon like to get super strong... let them do it please !!!!
It`s called freedom of choice


best regards : (miraoo7 rbk1)

[______________Desbet]

because i can't leave well enough alone


TRADERS ARE NOT WARRIORS!!!

You traders are skill phreaks, are the characters that get the best price from the store are the ones who 'make' things (though i heard tell that this is not true).

You should not be in the fight for any other reason to get a shot in, WHILE you wait for someone to need you. That is the character class! Just go and make a new trader and -read- the description. or if you can't read (and i'm wasting my time) click on it with the LEFT mouse button and -listen- to the description.

You're not warriors Traders. You were not meant to be.

[_____________Pyronis]

lol, omg, this overequip patch is silly......If a guy is really uber, and n lvl 40 puts on a ql 200 rifle for instance....without cheating ofcouse, why can't he keep it then?! If someone is that uber, then he should be allowed......it's a really stupid idea....what is the meaning of that buffs stack then? and what's the point about wrangle if u aren't lvl 150+?!?! omg, just so the highlvl people don't want to get beaten in PvP by a lvl 90 guy.
I'm telling you that many people will stop playing this game because of it....it's no fun being lowlvl anymore and besides, engineers can't make a good bot either anymore......This really suck! really great funcom

[_________Dogberry545]

ok people.....i have waded through the messages and the flames.
I am am new player to AO though not to Online games (think the old text based ones like MUDD through till today!)

There seem to two issues to the debate of OE and twinking.

OE is where your ONE of the REQUIREMENTS of a weapon/ability is more that 20% above skill of the character.
There has been a lot of whining from people who state that this is unfair....

WHY?? if you are able to self buff great! there are nano's that add up to 20 points for EVERYONE....these are available to everyone (yes yes 61 skills (bearing in mind that skills for title level one cap at 70ish))

so, 20 points to a skill where skill caps at 70? hmmm that's 90 skill!! you're looking at a greater that 20% for OE for a >15 character on a FAIR basis.

The problem comes with TWINKS.

I know another game that allows TWINKS. Asherons Call.

That game is now owned by an elite class that can travel anywhere pretty much without fear of anything, and is reliant on people knowing exactly which skills to take AT CREATION to have any chance at all of lvling at the highest levels.

Which brings me to me last point.

TWINKING IN MANY ONLINE GAMES IS ILLEGAL!!!!!

What is TWINKING?? Twinking is the movement of money or equipment from a superior character to a lesser (it is also called an illegal interaction between two characters on the same account - for older gamers).

So, you are a lvl 5 character with 3000 creds you've worked hard for. Another lvl 5 has 3m who has had it donated from on older character. Fair?? NO IT IS NOT!

Neither is it fair for that same lvl 5 to have 3m worth of implants or technology. If he can use it (thanks to step-ups and buffs) it is irrelevant. It's a TWINK.

A lot of you are familiar with DAOC (i'm not - can't buy it in shops in UK). Their fix was to use "bands" of power - if you had a higher lvl weapon - it broke faster. This is what I've read anyway.

The other extreme is that of EQ - I found that too restrictive.

OE is good. It starts to rein in those who TWINK.
The next step is to ban related character exchanges.
Ban TWINKING, ban CHEATING.

Then fix Mob power (because then you'll know how powerful PC's can be). Then increase the Engie's pet's abilities so that it is ON A PAR FOR ITS LEVEL!!!!!

Bring on the 14.2 patch!!!!!
Dogberry.

[kenv]

Talking about Traders being a buffing machine during team battling? I hope the Creaters of Trader Wranglers know that the wrangler will only last 3 minutes, which also means that Traders in team will need to do a wrangler buff for other players in team every 3 minutes. In this sense, Funcom is Forcing Traders to be a buffing machine! Which is completely against the original idea of not creating professions as a buffing machine!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cz]

Originally posted by Rhayden
As far as I remember, you Cz responded to his post, saying that would be logical... Still think so?

Whose post? I don't remember responding to much numbers and calculations on this issue, but might have forgotten it in the fray of this thread.

Please point me to what I said (quoting works nicely), and I'll have a better chance of responding to your post.

PS: Just adding a reminder that Gaute is working on a new article on over-equipping. I will let him answer questions there (instead of bugging him and delaying the article), and get back to cover what he might not after that.

[__________AsclepIIus]

I'm a level 52 Enforcer who had real good friend wrangle me into a QL 105 Sledge that requires +100 skill than I have. I don't exploit because I RAISED MY OWN SKILL ABOUT +60-75! NOW MY BUFFS ARE USELESS? BECAUSE IF U RAISE THE QL OF THE WEAPON 20% ABOVE YOUR SKILL THEN SUBTRACT THE DAMAGE BY 25% DOESNT THAT DECREASE YOUR DAMAGE? AND SO MY FRIENDS TRADER IS NOW USELESS BECAUSE HE WRANGLES... AND MY LOW TRADER? I HATE THIS NEW PATCH! SO NOW, I CANT SOLO 3 SHADES AT SW WHICH IS LVL 40 CAUSE MY WEAPON IS ONLY QL 80! AND NOW YOU HAVE TO HAVE A FULL TEAM OF 6 TO FIGHT AT NW? BECAUSE ALMOST EVERYBODY (YES EVERYBODY!) USES A WEAPON HIGHER THAN THEIR LEVEL! AND MOST OF THEM PAY HUGE AMOUNTS OF CREDS FOR A WRANGLE! WELL, SO LONG AND REVISE THE PATCH! ONLY BRING DOWN THE ATTACK OF THE EXPLOITERS NOT THE ONES THAT USE SMALL WRANGLES OF ONLY ABOUT +20-25!

[____________Fpockets]

In my humble opinion......all weapons and armor should not have any QL or stat requirements.

It would be nice if attack rating was the sole stat for damage output. Yes someone can buff you so you can temporarly do massive damage but the spell would wear off eventually and your damage output will lower to normal after a while( this would make traders happy and wanted)

this way people do not have to shop for a higher ql version of the same weapon every 5 levels. And also people can eqip different weapons to try out .they just will not do much damage with it till they raise the skills weapons ask for.

For example my fixer could try some of the different SMG weapons without having to raise the full auto part of weapon....i can decide later if i want to raise full auto skill so i can do more damage with that feature of weapon, OR I can just do damage with the smg/burst part of weapon without bothering to use the full auto button.

As for armor just make armor level/class dependant.

I dont know if these things can be programmed into Anarchy Onlines game engine or if they even care to program these things , BUT......its just a thought.

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by Desbet


go buy a new rifle for yourself with the $20k you **** from the public for the wrangles you've done.
(snip)
and Cz didn't force me to say that either

But i think someone, the post program or Cz did edit my post thanks i shouldn't have said that. (it starts with R and its a naughty naughty word.)

[Drevail]

all i have to say is...........huh?

[____________Ejeckted]

This patch turns Anarchy Online into the Special Olympics,
where everybody gets the same gold medal just for participating.

Not only will all characters of the same level be equally mediocre,
but now the choices you make along the way dont matter either.

I was all for a mandatory IP reset with automatic deequiping to
1) erase the advantage of exploiters
2) compensate players for funcoms mistakes/nerfs.
but it should never be considered as a permenant feature.

In this one article/patch, AO has gone from a
competative strategy-based game to button-mashing drivel.

Have fun on your passive leveling treadmil.

Funcom, have you stopped to consider that in this genre
keeping your hardcore dedicated competative players
might be more profitable in the long-term than pissing
off most of your existing playerbase (who stuck with you
all this time) to appease short-attention-span kiddies
who can't fathom a game that asks more of them than their PS2?