Over-equipping - here we go....

[______________Wahoo.]

Originally posted by Dr. Sent


Hehe .. it'll take 10% longer to reach level 150 post 14.2

omg omg omg OMG!!! we're all going to diiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Truth being told i have my high level guy , and i checked he will love the change , im here fighting for the player with lowbee's. Hey, it's cool . I feel for those lvl 75- 120 guys in pvp zones. Also my crat only travels with his meta GF. So his pet is always Red, he is always charming the red mobs . This change will only hurt his armor. But hey, it's all good for me.

[______________Wahoo.]

Originally posted by Kiryat


Buffs? Well, I keep mine running. Which you could do, to equip a little higher under the new system. As to the trader's wrangles, the explanation I was given was that that was exactly what they were for - a desperation way to give your team that little boost it would need to edge out a tough mob.



Who ever told you to have several sets? Do it in one. It takes more skill to do everything in one set.



Their use might, perhaps, be for people for whom those stats are important in and of themselves? If I tweak my strength by 12 points w/ some sort of item, then it boosts a couple essential skills by a point or two. As long as I wear the item, I can have the benefit. The problem arises in the fact that I continue to get the benefit of the overequipped gear after I remove the rare item. That's the problem. OErs mostly want to have everything. I don't mind them having the bonuses - but it's fair to ask them to make tradeoffs.

Well we each have a certain play style and that should be respected. You can dance around a problems like OE but , the truth is when you go into battle be prepare or don't go. I use every ip to the fullest. I use every advantage to the fullest to make the best character ( at least in my eyes) possible.

As far as keeping buffs running all the time. IT's a little crazy for me to run back to town if an outside buff wears off. Also general buff at mid levels doesn't really help that much.

The reason for several sets of implants is to equip certain items which i don't need skill for while im in travel, it has nothing to do with "those stats are important in and of themselves" or general abilities.

[MrBunny]

Ok well it is kinda apparent Gaute doesn't play AO cause if he did he would know that in missions mobs tend to shift, in regards to level. That is, in a given mission there will usually be a few mobs that are higher or lower than you. Unless you decided to move the slider of difficulty all the way to the left.

for example, a level 100 soldier doing a level 71 mission. (The slider is all the way to the left) I run in and what do I find.. 3 green mobs in the main room, that are around level 90. Ok no problem at least everyone else is grey right? Doesn't make a difference right? Wrong. Even with ac's in the 2.5k and a nova that is 40 levels above me, I am still getting reduced to 3/4 down my hp, and having to zone change now and then just to kill a few of them.

That doesnt sound right to me. I would hate to think what would be t he case if I had armor that was around my level and a weapon that was around my level as well.

With the way the game has been developed (i.e mob ac and health buffed and using nanos that are appropriate to their level) Over equipping is a must. And even then its not really enough. What do I mean? Well it seems that a ql weapon that is 40 levels above you isnt doing the damage of someone 40 levels above you because it is already checking your skill in that weapon which also affects damage output. Why else do traders have wrangles and professions have weapon buffs? (I.e assault rifle mastery) cause it highers your skill, and makes you dish out more damage.
So the weapon is doing some more damage but not that more damage.

But with a weapon that is 40 levels above you, your still not going to be able to dish out that much damage according to Gaute's accusation that people getting wrangles for equipment are getting them to get a permanent weapon of sorts.

What happens is that you "grow" into them over time. Look even if I was wrong with damage calculation, you still have to look at the reason why people are over equipping. 1.) so they can kill more stuff faster.. why? Because they want to solo more. Hint Hint? 2.) They aren't doing enough damage to be reasonable effective in a team at their level with their level weapon. Why? because you either made the mobs to tough or you made their weapons to weak without making adjustments for one or the other. It's like inflation. Theres nothing wrong with inflation, as long as you keep one or the other medium in balance. That is, if the price of a loaf of bread goes up, that is fine as long as your pay check increases to compensate. Otherwise inflation is bad, Gaute. SO if you make mobs more healthier, and have them casting nanos that a typical real life character of that level wouldn't already have without over equipping, but not compensate the characters in anyway, your otherwise handicapping the characters.

Either way, this over equipping nerf is really not the answer. Because accordingly, all people would have to do is number crunch and find a weapon that could take x levels of 1/4 reduction and still do more damage than their current level. And I can already think of a few that wouldnt be that badly effected by your uhh, "idea"

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by Kiryat


/me is impressed.

Cz, about what time, EST, would you expect some news to come out of the dev meeting? I gotta tear myself off this board and go write papers, and a time to come back would make it easier.

/me is uber-impressed.

I didn't think I'd get a post (let alone three) in before buisness was done and closed.

Jakespeed... I'm more than happy to continue the debate but pleasaaaaaasssee.. heh. just quote the bit you want to talk about.. its making lots of extra pages


Look around AO is not an Arcade game. IT is a complex game with hidden puzzles whice allow you equip weapons beyond you means. look at the buffs , explain why they exist then. Oh for attack rating , i think not!

Explain the use of several sets on implants.

Explain why rare items are in the game which add to intelligence and phychic. ( For example)

Come on.. you can't deny there use .

I'll be more than honest here, i havn't a clue. Attack rating? never look at it. ever. I look at the skill req of my rifle and the damage 'range' it has. Then I experiment. For example? I had a better ql nomad, with higher fire rate and decent damage but in the end it -never- got a good crit and had to reload 10x more than my stigma of like -10ql (comparativly).

The "rare" items for int/psyc... well.. NT armor comes to mind... and the word there... "RARE" well its just that isn't it. Its like a OE permission slip. not many people get them. In this case its not OE, how can it be? you've got the stats for the item!

I think perhaps you beleive I'm saying everyone should use a ql = to their lvl. I put in the other post (looks) that I dislike the idea. I'm saying that a person should not be using a rifle they need someone -else- to SB and 100+ wrangle them into.

I WANT to be able to "oe" myself into my equipment. but then, I can recast my own buffs and be happy. I'm talking about the people who go out and get the buffs from someone else to make it happen! those people who get a 1 time 100+ wrangle into a weapon/whatever and then are OE'd because they can't get it again.

If you have freinds to buff you into your equipment, ok fine. but you need them to do it regularly. If you don't have that regular "boost" you should lose the damage potential you've earned.

From the sounds of it, 14.2 is just the thing I'm talking about. Making that "one time wrangle" a nesessity to continue to fight on that level. This just makes sense! You can't give a caveman (enforcer lvl 1) a stunner (ladies tool) and expect him to do anything but try to club somethng with it!

14.2 is a good idea. I think too many people are too worried to see it won't -nerf- them completely unless they are abusing the system. (and by that I mean those who have bought the 1 time wrangle and left it at that)

You know.. implants would be a good idea... i should buy some. (havn't yet) AS for several sets.. why in the WORLD would I do more than 1 set?? to what? to where? why? I'm an agent I do one thing.. well three. I sneak, I snipe, I root. I can get those plus afew others into 1 set.

Ok more sense now I hope.... ? I WANT TO BE ABLE TO "oe myself. But its ok with me in accordance with the 'rules' of the 14.2 patch because I can rebuff myself. This patch looks to be targeting the abusers of the buffs other professions give.

(no more hearing Agent with FG pls tell! I'll be happy)

[hexxia]

Originally posted by Scumbug


im not understanding you.

say i use biomech armor. psy/stam reqs.
i make a special implant set to get me into higher QL stuff.
a QL125 implant set would give +72 psy and +72 stam.
these are not my main implants i wear in combat.
then say i usually use a Krutt shotgun with +int modifers.
now.. the +int does me no good here, so i temporarily
switch out to a vektor dragon with +25 psy modifier.
now i have +97 psy and +72 stam.
even if i ignore the general buffs,
that's enough to equip a suit of armor 32 QLs higher.
I then put my normal implants back in and switch back to my
normal gun. My armor is now more than 20% overequiped.
I am punished for my effort.

edit:
remember in addition to the above steps there are sub-steps too.
to switch implants i might need +80treatment from a doc
+20str/stam iron circle and +25agil felinegrace from an agent.
to switch from krutt to vektor and back i may need a wrangle.
this is the economy of rubi-ka and the backbone of AOs rules.

this one very bad idea would take all of that out of the game.
may as well just give us all level200 toons and let us fight over 2ho
for the next 3years.

Read the armour description. "prolonged use requires high blah blah skills" If I lift a weight about my head, then get a lot weaker all of a sudden, I cant expect to carry the weight so well.

14.2 makes sense both in balance and just literal sense. you dont have the skills any more, of course you shouldnt be as good.

[locomdenom]

Hey, Lifedrain.

Ignore the trolls. They only want to be fed. If you don't feed them, they go back to hiding under bridges.

That said - well? You'll still get benefits from carefully designed/implemented implants. You'll just have to think a little more, under the new system.

Alla you who say "But a quick wrangle and they hit the cap" - caps are based on base skills. You can implant your base skills higher. Then you go get the wrangle, and you'll still have had your chance to feel uber.

If any of you are audio geeks, like me, this is intended to act as a compressor. Right now, the dynamic range of players is too great - some people have it far too hard, some people have it far too easy. This patch is intended to squeeze that range down, making it easier for FC to balance. Those of you who want to work hard? You'll still have it easier than casual players. But it'll be less of a spread. That's all.

[______________Wahoo.]

If this patch is going to be accepted. Why are there so many posts in a short time frame! I got a feeling this will be a lose , lose situation!

[______________Wahoo.]

Originally posted by Kiryat
Hey, Lifedrain.

Ignore the trolls. They only want to be fed. If you don't feed them, they go back to hiding under bridges.

That said - well? You'll still get benefits from carefully designed/implemented implants. You'll just have to think a little more, under the new system.

Alla you who say "But a quick wrangle and they hit the cap" - caps are based on base skills. You can implant your base skills higher. Then you go get the wrangle, and you'll still have had your chance to feel uber.

If any of you are audio geeks, like me, this is intended to act as a compressor. Right now, the dynamic range of players is too great - some people have it far too hard, some people have it far too easy. This patch is intended to squeeze that range down, making it easier for FC to balance. Those of you who want to work hard? You'll still have it easier than casual players. But it'll be less of a spread. That's all.

Not really , this change will cause less work for me . I'll still be twinked under the new rules. IF THEY HAPPEN. Maybe guys will start pvping more. I don't know but, im sure we'll find out!

[Cz]

I've had to edit, even delete, a few posts here today. I understand that people get agitated, but keep the bickering to an absolute minimum.

Keep it clean people. No personal attacks, no swearing, no flames. Simply, be nice. It's not really that hard.

[locomdenom]

Hell yes.

I'd consider PvP if it weren't for the fact that, as it stands now, my raised from scratch fixer ain't gonna stand a chance (well, maybe against an adv... when's the last time you saw a fixer or an adv PvPing other than Trys?)

With this OE fix, you might be seeing me drop into the arena (prolly to lose.... but it'll be a relatively even fight, not life's current twinkfest).

[_____Poweredge|vault]

Lilith...

The good players are those able to survive without twinking, twinks are the poor players who need to use stuff way above their level to survive. Its your gear that does the job, not the player.

Where did that little gem of useless informtion come from? Do you know the difference between a good tank and a bad tank? If it was the gear that does the job, then why did FC give us a keyboard?

The only thing needed in your view is to spend time planning your implants... and the order in which you will place them, and which items you will need to wield, and which buffs you will need... so would it be reasonable to think that if someone never played the game, and is given a uber character, he's going to be able to play it? chances are YES under normal play conditions (vs same con mobs) and NO (vs higher con mobs). Now take an experienced player and it shifts the levels to yellow = green, orange = low yellow; red = yellow. That is a problem.

So, if I give a top-of-the-range PC to a new computer user, you think they're going to start hacking the registry? I wonder why Dell has a technical support telephone number....

Everyone can do it? Sure everyone can plan the implants etc, except that the day you reach, say level 160, your uber overequipping will reach an end, and you'll have to deal with the reality of the game.

I'd like to think that the reality of the game is the part "up to" L160. Why do you think so many high level people have so many alts?

Most OE'rs only have chars in the low 100 range, 80-120 or so.. and tinks in the twenties. Sadly there are 200 levels, and OE'rs lack the skills to pass level 150, whine about the class lack of possibilities etc... so learn to play the game?

The reason that people have OE'ers at L80-100 is because it's when your caps are crushing your progress the most. Therefore you at least want to be able to act your level. Take a look at the soldier forum sometime, and see how tough it gets at that time.

The twinks in there 20's are alts of people that have spent a long time playing the game, gained knowledge, understood complex methods of enhancement, and are a just-reward for people that have worked hard in getting their mains to the point that they can afford to do so. Yes, a side effect exists in that new L20's will be severely weaker than such alts, but that's not the twinks fault... it's an educational issue that affects new characters at the start. This is mentioned in my previous post.

Tell me how hard it is to kill a yellow without OE'ing, vs killing an orange with OE'ing?

At what level? With what weapon? With what diversification of the character? This is based on fresh air, and is certainly not of any use in terms of quantifiable questioning.

So far the only thing with which I aggree. But there is on side effect of OE'ing to this: when some classes rely on their nanos to fight, while others rely on their guns. OE'ing does a major difference. Two characters twinked to the max, and the PvP fight is lost. Why? Because you do more damage than you can take, so its basically skewed from the start, no fighting tactics.

And here's me thinking it was all about 3 crits in a row wins....

Sorry but there are more Veterans against OEing than there are newbies, ... newbies have no idea what OEing is. If someone doesnt know something, how can he emit a valid opinion on that topic?

Bingo Lilith... an outstanding point. This is the key. It's not so much location, location, location, but EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION folks... great point raised Lilith.

Maybe people want it fixed because it has been used beyond its original concept? Whats the point of social clothes, for example, if you can't ever remove your armor or weapons without relying on 10 people and hundreds of thousands credits?

The reliance on people is the basis of the game. We are a community based on three sides, no? If it was that simple then, we may as well just go about our merry way, alone for 200 levels. The word "guild" comes to mind.... not sure why tho....

I would think someone should be able to equip and unequip his gear if he wants to without any limitation, and that his gear follows a scale with his own level; not saying that the QL you equip has to match your level, but when you see people using QL160 bots at level 80, I wonder how they will survive the next 120 levels since there are only 40 more levels of pet.

That's why the gods at FC gave us a chance to make more than one character. How people use those additional char slots is entirely up to the user in question. Some will twink, some will powerlevel, some will socialise, all will learn.

Not look down? you've been doing this for a while now. As for killing twinks and exploiters, its not that hard... they don't know how to play.

Hey, I've got a bucket of tar and a couple of feather pillows... any use to anyone?

You will have more friends and have fun, I will lvl and fight, and if you some day would like to fight.

Is that it? Has the GOD of Uberness finished speaking?

I'll ignore you from now on, your condescending attitude makes me want to punch my screen and I love it too much to afford going that far

I know you know better Lilith... don't feed the trolls.

To wrap up... take a look at the fact that there's always someone somewhere that knows more than you and everyone will get along fine. The current system of OE in AO is fair as I see it. What other rewards have L200's got to look forward to, they don't even get a nice message when they hit 200.

Pretty soon, people are going to realise that high level people are not always out for themselves. Although I'm only L101, I and many others are actually looking at what's happening in AO with balance and perspective, and are anxious to see a game that new people can feel at home with as soon as they are faced with the choice of breed for their first character.

What does make me tired, is all the high vs low comments flooding around, and the decidely noticeable lack of listening. Kinda like when new characters ask questions that people think are dumb... they're not dumb, they're just learning what we learnt, and we should have the common decency to impart some of that knowledge.

Anyway, I'm heading back to the soldier forum... the soldier guide needs finishing.

[______________Desbet]

I see alot of people saying the same thing.

14.2 is ok, it will not hurt me; it is good.
or
I want more powerfull stuff so I can rock.

Some attempt to justify it, "look see I don't do more damage! My skill dropped and my attack rating shows it the chances of my crits are...blahblahblah." No offence, you are right. But the
-=base=- damage of the weapon you OE'd is still there. I don't know how base damage is figured, off attack rating or simply from the gun. Knowledge like this is for the tech's.

Point is, you're still doing more damage. (unless you OE a sucky gun, then you're not) Practical experience. I get a new stigma from my Org. leader. I'm impressed! He had to do minor wrangle, SB FG and general agi/sense to get it on me. -guess- what we had to do to get the belt installed i needed to hold that. anyhow. I say 'thanks boss' and go on a mission. 300aimed shot! WOOT (lvl 13 or something, i forget) /me screams and yells happily. Some time later the buffs wear off and I no longer get 300, but 270. -still- much higher than the 180 i was getting with the rifle -I- put myself into. Skill counts, but not that much.

THAT ^^ is OE. and that is what will be stopped. ppl will do damage 'near' their lvl. I will be happy. duels will have meaning.. and I'll let Jakespeed try to kill me

OH! the mention of sneak turning agents invis to players, like like like!!! but------serious----- problem there. every time you zone you unsneak. not fun. I wanna sneak into Tir sometimes too you know.

I'm here in AO as much for the ability to roleplay as I am for hack/slash. Trust me Enforcer was fun, but had limited RP ability.(and it got tired fast) Agent just has the ring to it I want/like.

Go ahead, kill OE "freedom" it won't affect me. I'll welcome it. Want to impress me? False alignment NF or don't unsneak when zone (either one will work) or hell, even make it a psycology check to see if you can 'fake alignment' or something. I just want to go to all the towns and see the sights (even as neutral I'm not having freedome for the mobs attacking me there "clan doc attacks you....(run, not interested) MK-II turret hits you for 1000..."... oh.

[_______________Valis]

Well since more seem to be for than against, and no I didn't read all 38 pages of posts, I am going to point out some things that maybe a few here don't get.

Basically I see this as an overall bad thing, why? Well certain professions have an IP advantage, example engineers have almost all trade skills green or light blue. Agents on the other hand are almost entirely dark blue or the light dark blue. In other words Agents can't increase thier skills as fast as other professions. Over equipping compensates for this disadvantage. I play an agent main, and have dabbled a bit with the others professions and I see Agents really getting hosed on this, and don't tell me well we gonna fix concealment. This is a joke. Lets see I have green Throwing knives, wait no knives to throw. Perception is green, hmm, don't know so far that I have ever had a use for it, maybe I have and just don't know that it happens. Concealment, woot, I can now almost sneak missions at high levels whee! But since I can't do anything with the loot, why bother? Aimed shot, get to use it once and then I can't hide anymore. Woot I can Dodge range, melee and explosions, wait it doesn't keep mobs from hitting me all the time, even debuffed mobs, maybe I take a few less crits, although I have yet to really notice a difference. Now you are gonna strip away my abilibty to over equip armor and weapons to compensate for the over stated mobs? (Actually I don't over equip weapons, I tend to change depending on the mob I see. I find the only way right now to deal with casters is to melee them to death and hope for an interrupt to their casting or 2. Seems to work better than shooting them). We get sneak attack, but wait this is a one shot deal and all the melee weapon stats are dark blue/light dark blue. I think you begin to see the picture and while an IP reset might help in the short term, I can get my ip back for the time I thought nano resist actually worked, in the long term it won't make that much of a difference.

So basically I see that I will now take more damage, deal less and die more. Hmm, time to shelve my agent. Maybe in this patch if they actually made damage avoidence worth a damn or gave agents some useful stats it might compensate, but right now I see agents as a dead profession.

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by Cz
I've had to edit, even delete, a few posts here today. I understand that people get agitated, but keep the bickering to an absolute minimum.

Keep it clean people. No personal attacks, no swearing, no flames. Simply, be nice. It's not really that hard.

Cz

its going too fast for me to keep up ....

I'll leave that to you Cz and Kiryat hehehe. I'm going to go play some and see if i can't 'GROW' into my next set of armor and/or rifle. (btw, i'm in Stret West at the Omni-pol outpost (that is south of the city Stret West))

I'm a very un-uberish lvl 25 agent with mismatched armor and a low ql stigma. I'm sure you'll want to help me make the trip back to omni ent (where i hit reclaim) quicker. (better hurry before I make it home!) jakespeed ? hehehehhe

[_____________Morgoth]

Sorry guys for the badmouthing, I just lost my temper.

I, as many others think todays system is a fair one, not a faultless one, but an ok one.

I'll still smoke you Lilith, but thats not the point, I had no reason to tell you bad stuff so I take it back.

I was trying to tell my side of things, trying to show that I understand and hoping for a little understanding, I didn't and that ok, this is just a game anyway.

So, with new rules that we don't need many are gonna be happy, many gonna quit and we have gained what? they joy of being as powerful as the nasty pvp'er in 2HO? k, grats then.

But I must say, its pointless, the exploiters are still gonna exploit as much, cap or no cap, and frankly only the good players will lose in this.

As for the rest of the crap about we not knowing how to play the game, us beeing easy to take in pvp, well I won't even coment, its just to dumb.

Sorry CZ for the curses, won't happen again.

Yours


Lifedrain
General of Security
Omni Shadow Ops

[Cz]

I might not be able to get an update with answers and more details out today. I'm working on it, but it seems to be difficult. I have some small news, but I'd rather post it all at once, so it doesn't get lost in this monster of a thread. (Thinking of size only. )

I'll let you know as soon as know anything.

/me leaves ice cream for those who want some, grabs the last cookies still lying around, and heads off to track down people with answers, again.

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by Valis
Well since more seem to be for than against, and no I didn't read all 38 pages of posts, I am going to point out some things that maybe a few here don't get.

I play an agent, i'm liking it.
tips:
evasion skills work when aggro bar is in the green.(you dodge 50% of a yellow mob if you keep them 100% per lvl)

perception: search for bombs on things like doors and chests (disarm the chest for a healthy dose of darkyellow/orange xp reward) perception also seems to have some to do with the 'tab enemy list' if its low you don't see critters on the tab list

I'll like to play my agent even after patch. (/me tries to not grow angry cleaning up cat puke)

ARGH! -CATS- make me angry. this patch is a blessing.

[croaker]

Has anyone bothered to really check the numbers here? I do not think many have. If yo are level 100 or so with plants for weps installed there is a good chance u have like 700 skill with that wep. That lets you OE to a 840 wep. I think that it is plenty for level. It will only affect the low level guys and really not that much. Do any of you remember how easy it is to breeze through the low levels? I have a high level enforcer who will be totally unaffected by this OE reduction(even if plundered). I also have a non twinked 50ish crat i play once in a while. QL 50 plants QL 40 gun and a droid he always summons by himself. I can solo 75% missions without great difficulty normally getting a level each one. The OE in my opinion only affects those who grossly OE at lower levels, and people who do that are not normally leveling, but stay at that level to fight pvp or in arena, because if they level then they are not overequipped which means they will not own people comparable to their level in the arena or 2ho anymore. It really will not be a big change..........if FC can implement it without introducing a ton of bugs which I hope they do not do by thoroughly testing before releasing it live.

[Shadelore]

Agent changes, sounds like we are going on the right direction =)

Overequipping:

The general idea is very very good, but:

1) IP reset MUST be forced,otherwise no point.

2) You must realize you cannot "nerf" ppls ac/dmg without taking the balance to MOBs as well,that 60% AC reduction you talk about,13.8,doh, havent noticed that to be anything that would compensate for lower dmg of this scale.

3) Do you understand you kill all petclasses,except the MP,which allready is the God of pets & everything?

4) This will massacre everyone below say lvl 125...

5) As said earlier,it is very sad that this will dement the hard work,resources and ingenious of the the veteran players who with their skills,resources and adaptability rise above the whiners,clueless and newbies.
Damn communism, if you didnt notice, the west won the cold war and cthe commies lost, update your timeline ffs!

[_________Lexusstreak]

Let's see, I have looked through most of these posts here, for people against OE, and lookie what I see.. quotes like "My level 58 soldier can.." "I do missions easy with my level 46..." as you can clearly see, the people in favor of this patch are all below level 100 noobs, at that point in the game where you can kill a green with a weapon/armor on or near your level. Obviously these whiners simply lack the skill, or the intellect to equip items and armor above their levels, I recall one story from an adventurer who's like level 80ish and he talks about how he's going to put in level 80 implants next week,,helloooo you can still buff yourself out and squeeze in 125s with legit means, either you simply don't want to or you are too poor to do so and you want to rain on everyone else's parade. These people are all low level cry babies who know nothing of the anarchy world, the ones who are level 35 and whine when they see their hunt partner out in lush fields, same level with a full set of omni elite while they are wearing mismatch metaplast. and honestly how the heck does over equipping affect "your" game? You can't possibly sit here and tell me you would rather not see that level 40 enforcer with a ql 150 hammer tanking a mob, smashing it up good to get "you" some nice xp, or tell me you would rather not see that engineer or crat tank that tailgunner beetle with his warbot/slayerdroid because your pathetic weapons or armor couldn't even scratch it..ohh I see, you didn't think about that did you? if your weapon is lower than a mob you fight, the weapon crits less often and damage is reduced greatly, is it any wonder you have to twink out a character just to survive? most of the people here shouting for the oe patch are the ones who never had to stand toe to toe with that "Ace" (insert funny name here) or that "Really mean" (insert funnier name here) both have insane hitpoints and do damage that would make superman cringe in fear, when you noobs fight one of those with your crappy weapons and armor that you seem to love, and you survive, then you come back to me and I'll rethink my position on this...however, since I know this will never happen, mostly because funcom wants to slow down leveling to make the game stretch for 3 more years, yuck.. I am not totally without compassion, I would like to see the game stretch too, the only character I posses who will not be affected by this is my level 124 mp who can buff mochams and keep her demon running and obeying at all times... not to mention her buffs will be in high demand now and I can make a lot of credits (since her buffs last for almost an hour...sorry traders )

Why then..do you ask, that I am not FOR the patch...well let me tell you...after level 110 or so..all high levelers go to this magical place called broken shores, in a wonderous laggy city called Home and there they are forced to run min numbing team missions to level because all high level playing fields are in crappy remote locations that no one wishes to visit....A: because they are too far away, see above. B: they range from 25 percent supression to 0 percent (free for all) hey I just want to level, I don't want to be forced into a pvp match for the right to kill some mob over and over. anyway back to my above point of why I am not for this patch when it places my character on a golden throne. the high level game gets rather boring..and at 125 even more so because you are forced into a 25 level skill cap...and I don't see myself running missions in broken shores until level 200, which takes no time to do really if you think about it..guess that's why fc wants to put an end to our level ability. However with any game that is bound to happen, you have your teenager/young adult (don't wrack me for demographics, I am just making an example) who can play 20+ hours a week and therefor "always" outlevel and better equip their characters through mission camping than average joe weekend warrior who can play for only less than 10 hours a week. so the point is no matter if you do this patch or not, you will get whiners..all you who are sitting pretty waiting for this patch will be the very ones who are on the recieving end of some later to be announced other patch, whining and complaining about this and that going wrong. there I go getting off topic again..as I was saying.the high level game gets rather boring because the story in ao is non existent save for some vague animated cartoons, role playiing is non existent too, I may be wrong, I like to rp, if you know a good rp guild then contact me at this character's name...long story short, I amuse myself by starting new characters, and yes I like to see if I can get that ql 40/50 novaflow on that soldier, or I like to find a way so that a level 15 engi can use a level 50 bot or above, I've paid my dues and been through the noob trials, and now that I can afford to make my other characters better through legit means, "I" am being punished? and yes, this is the only reason I stay in ao, for the chance to try out the different classes to see the strength and weaknesses in each..I even thought about starting a trader..but now? sheesh..they will be good in pvp only, and not as helpful buffers in teams like they used to be, or their character class description says.

Think about it funcom..what trader you know is going to monitor wrangles and shoot them off to that engineer in the group every 2 minutes? especially if he/she has to ransack deprive to do so? or to that soldier, enforcer, whatever class just to keep their weapons functional? what would even be the point of wrangling? I have played since the start of this game, and so far I have noted a lot of professions getting nerfed, I think the first was a soldier if I am not mistaken, I forget, agents, etc followed and now it's the traders turn...heh about the only thing I can look forward to is that I get a chance to be snooty and charge outrageous prices to other players (mua ha ha ha ha) all I ask is that you whiners stop saying that 14.2 is going to be a godsend and think about it for a moment, it may not affect you, but it will affect that person you hunt with, or that person you may call friend or that guild mate you have, also, it may not affect you at your current level, but just wait, wait until you reach level 90 and beyond (if you make it that far) and then tell me how wondrous skill checks are.

Now I am not saying this game does not need fixing, because it does. however this is not the way to go about doing it. do not punish people for using buffs, and implant combos "you" put into the game and made available to all. If you didn't want that level 2 character with weapons/ armor way over their level then you should have introduced a hard level check, like some of the dungeon items. (even though most of those items are crap) and fc, and thos of you who complain about oe.. do you know WHY people have to over equip? it's because mobs do too much damage and have way too many hit points at higher levels. in addition, because weapon damage, and accuracy is "not" based on character stats. Take asherons call for example, if you have a sword, bow, hammer, whatever have you.. at low levels when your skill is mediocre at best enemies will more often than not evade your attack..or if you try to make a magic spell work, or construct an item, it will fail because your "skill" is too low, so that's why you have to level, and through trial and error find the right combination of skills to do whatever you need to the right way. now back to ao, your success is entirely dependant upon the weapon you wear, and armor, that is why people try and wrangle in big guns because weapon damage is not based on your skill whatsoever, it is decided on if you have a higher ql weapon to wield. the best example of skill being in relation to damage is the martial artist, who will also not be affected by this patch save for their armor, I fear for them..

I won't even bother to go into pet classes, because even the people who are for the OE patch agree that pet classes like the crat and engineer are getting the shaft big time. so if you don't consider anything else, consider those classes, and the poor por trader who will now not be sought after for his/her warez. who needs a buff that will wear off in 2 minutes and thus reduce your weapons effectiveness? Any of you can plainly see that these changes are not stemming from a need to balance player versus monster battles, heck those are tough enough as it is. this is coming from those people who just have to win a pvp match so they can show their crappy little titles to their friends and guild mates. so what..why are all these changes being made to balance a rather boring and bland aspect of the game? and why should everyone be equal? isn't the point of the game to do missions, get money, advance, use better armor weapons? do you see the wealthy and elite say "hey my armani suit is over doing it, I think I should shop at k mart to be like everyone else" no they don't say that, they got their wealth through hard work, and they reward themselves with the best, case and point.

Does the game need to be balanced? yes it does..is this the way to go about it? no..because you will simply anger the people who have stayed with you after so many others left...stop trying to please the noobs who are most likely on a 7 day account anyway.i love ao, and twinking out characters is about the only thing left to do, if you want to nerf that to hades then give people more to do in the story than simply standing by watching it "unfold" *chuckles* heck, just put some furniture in the stores and let me decorate my character's apartments and I'll be a happy camper.