Over-equipping - here we go....

[Cz]

33 pages?!?!?

/me starts reading, gathering questions, and wondering whether he'll be ready by lunch...

Will get answers and post them as an update in the first post (start of the thread).

[_________thatDangElf]

Originally posted by Skara
I keep reading the same flawed arguement over and over.

The reason for this change is not because a bunch of lazy, stupid people refuse to take the time to figure out the game. The reason for the changes is the longevity of the game.

At what lvl do you equip the highest QL stuff you can equip? How many lvls do you go without anything to look forward to (have read this many times on the boards)?

By limiting OE, they can bring the monsters back down to sub-Superman status. OE will not be as necessary, but there will still be that element in the game, just not to the lvls you now see it.

They cannot balance the game without these changes, or do you want 4 or 5 classes to comprise the population on Rubi-Ka? And BTW, most of those players will be multiple rerolls.

Newbies, not rerolls I am talking true newbies, should be able to get into the game without having to spend hours researching. It is a game after all. Will those who have researched and rerolled be at an advantage? Yes, but just not to the degree they are now.

The monsters are insane. They were made insane to compensate for the "beyond what was expected" power leveling that was going on.

No severe OE, no insane monsters, no problem.


Skara

all right -- sure... the solution to making the game more fun is *easier monsters*... :oP no one likes a challenge...

the only problem with that, is now it all becomes relative. if the monsters are easier [and i'm sorry, but me, untwinked, solo hunting, i am getting bored with anything less than an orange] and the over equipping is lessened, then we are at the same point we were when we started.

the only 'skill' buffs i use are the ones i can buy and use myself in the general nano shop... should i feel horribly guilty and fear that i am next because i need to buff Burst by 2 points to use my new weapon? if i had to wait that would be fine... but, i don't have to -- that is the point of the general buffs.

i agree that PvP is a fairly small part of AO compared to missions & hunting, but newcomers of the future are going to be at MORE of a disadvantage than they are with the over equipping *issues* as they exist at the moment. i don't over equip because i wouldn't enjoy it -- but, it is a personal choice. i've never had a mocham's gift, but i did once have a +25 time&space mastery that stacked with my T&S expertise one and it was an interesting experience, but it made the game too easy so i'm not currently doing it anymore.

i know players who get a sense of satisfaction from figuring out how to put together the implants... and that is NOT an exploit. it's not the easiest thing in the world i grant you that, but it's one of the few tradeskills that are working decently at the moment. in the end, it will basically become a matter of *only* using implants, or *only* using the skill buffs -- otherwise, you'll cross that 20% mark.

is we can only increase by 20%, then i say the enemies should only be able to decrease skills by 20%. ;o)

[____________Phelisha]

Originally posted by Kaitou*Doc*
*Doc* Well ok, I'm gonna be PO'd if the ability to OE is taken away. Its hard enough to get a damned gun on cuz like all Ranged and Melee are damn Dark blue to me! well except pistal but like big wow its light blue and pistals suck now adays, well anyway, it took me along time to run my a$$ all over this damned place to find implants! I spent enough on finding vektors and wrangles(stupid traders!) to get them on! You think docs have it made cuz we can heal, i personally can barely kill a damned green monster! We have of course Icon Circle for good armor but i still need something to use in combat! We do have some poison use but u know how long it takes for that to actually kill one green and i use up all my nano and nothing left to heal! So here i have to run in and out of the mission to kill one person. My doc is lvl 72 and i use a higher ql Vektor and it still takes me long enough to kill one person and now "Smart Ol' Funcom" wants to make more patches to cause more problems with the ones that have remained since god knows when.

For My Lvl 46 Adv. IP set back is a good Idea cuz Adv. ranges in so many abilties and i lost a lot of IP putting it in places, where its totally gonna have no effect later on. And i so can't solo a mission with my adv. at all.

P.S. Most the damned ppl who want things to be limited is those of PvP which is NOT the main purpose of the game!

~Kaitou~

ok well, i feel kinda abd for you then with this issue........
i dont know, maby it was a mistake in the long run for my doc to use swords, but she is a killing machine in pvp with her posion and heals. i strongly advise against guns, there just not as good.
even with my skills dark blue in that, i rais them to the point of thinking i was an enforcer that can heal.

my doc is lvl 71, has about 2100 AC, and 2 ql 90 swords (1 h edge merchant executioners)

my heal does about 391-572(cost 150 nanos)
my posion hits for 70, my swords do about 150 dmg on avrage
and my hp buffs get me to about 2300 HP.
and i use nano stims in battle to refresh me so i can heal in battle more.
and i also have some constant healing spell that does 50-70 every like 2-3 secs.

my doctor is combat hardened, and can take dark orange-red mobs on her own.
it isnt easy, but i can.

i know yer doc probably sint ment for pvp, but still like i said, even if its a ql 20000000000000 vektor, i still suggest swords.
sure its a bit of an ip cramp, but hell, its 100% worth it in the end.
but i might suggest heavy weps instead of fast attack, fast attack just isnt cutting it to to well at my lvl.

remember, this is only if you wanna pvp with eyr doc though, otherwise stick to the gun and stay outa mobs range when healing.(thats only point of a gun on a doc)

[newarival]

"FC is just punishing the more experienced players"

oh yes its in a company's intrest to "punish" there client base...
Give me a f@@king break. They dont want to punish anyone.
FC isnt into the S&M scene last i checked(was a while ago)


To me what this patch is adressing is the difficulty of play for "n00bs"

THIS GAME IS HARD FOR n00bs(alittle less hard as a omni player
hardest as a nutie, this should be explained more clearly to "newarrivals")the game has 3 diffuculty settings.

Because of "uber twinks" the npcs hp's ac's exc. had to be boosted for a quote unquote quick fix (bad idea) now anyone who is just begining the game needs to know how to OE simply to kill a back yard leet at lvl 3.(ok slight exageration)

?DONT THINK SO?

Dont just say "i be did did be fine killing B.Y. leets at like lvl 3 like and stuff and more stuff"...things have changed
When's the last time you dared step into a arena at lvl 40 w/out 200 filled ncu and taunt one of the more renound twinks (lvl 35ish) and not die in 2.5 sec no contest.

Ask yourself what lvl can you solo to and not get a Xfer from you bigger char.
Put yourself in a n00bs shoes then threaten that cancle subscription button you preach about soooooo much.
As a veteran player playing as a verteran in a fairly infulential guild i know my limits and it will not take me long to relearn them and still excell.Granted i wont be able to make lvl 1 charicters that only survive from drowning in the blood of deep red mob's by the use of a ql 200 snorkel passed down to me by my main char. deap breath
I will still be able to wade through this blood quite efficeintly due to my know how(once they lower the mobs HP(have allitle trust))

How long has it been since they raised mobs HP?
How Many people have you met recently who started playing directly after that happened and have a char higher than lvl 50?
FC needs a growing client base and that is exactly what they will try to acheive(regardless of how many times you say BUT BUT BUT
or THATS NOT FAIR)

Just relax if you are truely more experienced or truely less lazy//more intelegent as a player you WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE UPPER HAND -----period----- and if this is what you enjoy being you will not leave this game to go be a n00b in a different one.


Take a look at MAs dmg since you have just raised it FC
Now you nerf averyone elses dmg(except damage nanos)?
Well then i guess my 144 agent will be discarding her weapon and going hand to hand as will every other char in the game.

Take a look at traders(the only reason there is a need for this patch) and from what i gather this patch as well as every other that has ever even made it to the test server hasnt adressed this issue.

If this patch goes live(which it will) balance MAs Nts and traders before empowering us agents. I would prefer that there be no God class than simply raising my class to where it can compete with the "god class"
besides leaving the agents be for a bit should be no threat to you because most of the good agents have aleady left(anyone who is anyone in this game remembers the more respected players)

When you do fix agents please FIX them im tired of mission camping or paying obsene amounts of creds for those illusive nanos of other proffessions to find out i cant even cast them.(crat speech nanos,,engi team//single becon warp,,nullity sphear,,grid armor,,ext..ext..ext..ext)

sorry about the length here but at least i dont post 40 times on the same subject with no apperent point after post #3

[Bionitrous]

Gaute already said they were done with reducing MOB's power. Read the damn article. They are finished making MOB's weaker.

And honestly, that's the last thing I want are easier monsters. They're just about right now. For my lvl 40 character, my lvl 60 character, and my lvl105 character. All of them moderately well-twinked (nothing crazy) and each fight is a challenge.

This patch has nothing to do with fairness. It's about making it harder to level and extend the life of the game. Unfortunately for most it means the game gets boring and unplayable at around lvl 130.

At level 130, players start new characters, they get past the crap from 1-50 as fast as possible and start exploring the dynamics of a different class. Some people's alts now become their mains and the people keep playing.

Nobody keeps playing past 130 because it's FUN. And if this change goes in it'll become even more a chore (Nothing to do but level is a dead end game). They might do it to keep up with guild mates or maybe because there is not a better game out there right now. Until this change comes in AO is the best game out there. The current equipping rules are part of what makes this a brilliant game.

Nobody is going to give a crap about any new content when the GAME is gone. Dungeons and stuff were nice. New items were nice. But, so many of us are addicted to the intricacies of Anarchy Online the GAME. In one fell swoop, you completely take the GAME away and hand us our mousewheels to run circles in. I know many who will say 'no thanks' to being placed on a treadmill.

The other reason for the change is to put for a blanket kludge fix for problems the game designers cannot fix and to have a safety net in place for future situations where the gamers are smarter than the designers. Notice it wasn't done fairly and that a lvl131 gun can in very many instances be WORSE than a lvl130 gun. That is simply retarded.

If they wanted to impress us, they could have shown some smarts and reduced effectiveness as one over-equipped while still keeping the joy of the game alive. I have NO respect for anybody with so little imagination as to put forward this all-or-nothing approach. It is the work of amatures plain and simple. I'm sorry to be blunt, but it shows none of the inspiration that a true game designer requires to be successful.

Once again, the MOB's are done being made softer. That was the current patch (13.8) read it again.

One major point most of the sub-80 newbies don't get is that live will become hell for the new people who sign up and they will still suck compared to those in guilds. I know for a fact, that any guild intent on taking care of their lower levels will assign a lvl140 doctor to heal any lvl40 applican'ts and debuff the inits of the MOB's they fight. You just can't beat the determined player. You can only 'curtail' them and try to keep them them happy and keep their money.

I don't care if they want to curtail the effects of over-equipping. I just would have expected some brains in the people I pay 12.95 a month to make decisions about my.

There must have been 50 posts outlining how to curtail the SERIOUS overequippers with rocking the foundations of the game. Every single was completely ignored without a single refute as to why they were not feasible. I wonder sometimes how much pride is taking it's toll on a game I like very much right now.

Suck it up Gaute and do the right thing for your game. Address over-equipping. I got no problem with that. But put your abortion of a scheme to bed. I know how proud you are of this contrivance, but sometimes it's best to put pride aside and listen to reason. The future of your game is at stake. If you can't see how this sucks the very life out of your game and spells a slow cancerous death over not 3 years, but 1 year, then you are blind.

This game cannot withstand the bad press that changing the rules so utterly and drastically a full year after release will prompt. You could very well be the laughing stock of the gaming industy. This is not 'tough love'. It's sheer stupidity.

There's a good chance I will be bored within weeks of the game being 'dumbed down'. You got me back after the 12.6 fiasco after I saw how awful a game where everybody was the same can really be. DAoC sucked so bad it wasn't funny. I came back to a game where I could excel when using other metrics than simply 'levels'. IF this ceases to be the case after the implementation of your simpleton's safety net, you can kiss my money goodbye.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Lord Nemesis
Quote from the Article:

".... is the target for over-equipping: Not having your 1h Edged Expertise nano run out, and instantly loose functionality of your weapon..."


But this is exactly what happens to an NT. When a buff runs out we cannot use our Nano's. Why is it ok for NT's and not for a weapon user?

Just answering this one real quick.

NTs don't lose functionality of the 'weapon' (weapon = nano programs), but lower the effect, as they have to start using a lower level one.

[___________Stercoral]

Yahaaaaaaaa true invisibility ! we go towards a RP game...

Please plan for another patch possibility to hide our pers. information from other players ("t" information: level, guild, affiliation, ...)).

[neurozic]

omg!!

NT's will so totally OWN after this patch!! NERF NT's!

i am a level 50 UBER engie and when i spend hours and a mill on getting UBER buffs (i have 6 slotter and 64 ncus i bought on ebay) i get my warbot and it SO TOTALLY OWNS. but after patch the bot will run totally BERZERKER and the NT's will come kill me coz they are becoming UBER i tell ya! UBER! they will not affected by OE patch!!

AND MA, MA WILL BE G O D!

I WONT BE ABLE TO KILL GREYS

AND EVERYONE WILL QUIT THE GAME I TELL YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(this thread rocked)

[-Zagadka-]

Originally posted by Cz

Docs: I'll check whether the designers plan anything to give healing lower aggro / hate rate. Personally I didn't think of this, but then again, I'm not a designer.

Once again, thanks Cz.

Firstly, I think this would be the perfect opportunity to introduce aggro dehancers for us support classes. I'm already hesitant about team heals...

Secondly. To everyone talking about how casting and MA profs won't be affected and be uber... um... we've been playing by even stricter rules since day one.

[_________thatDangElf]

Originally posted by Cz
33 pages?!?!?

/me starts reading, gathering questions, and wondering whether he'll be ready by lunch... :p

Will get answers and post them as an update in the first post (start of the thread). :)

Cz

ok coolies... tell the designers: without the current OE issue, players will be burnt out by level 70 rather than level 150. if you just make it harder to succeed without any possible *hands up* from time to time... then the game actually becomes more stagnant. i *LOVE* AO... we are angry, because we love it as it is (on most counts) rather than this odd choice of "new rules!" they want to implement.

don't listen to the whiners, instead -- tell them to learn the construction of good implants. the AO learning curve is big, but messing with OE isn't really going to change the fact that n00bs still have a lot to learn -- there is time to mess with tweaking *later*... around level 5. ;oP

i SERIOUSLY have not twinked and have no complaints!!! meetmedere has had some shining moments in my characters history that i am proud of... and i have 3 implants, ok? all around the level my character is supposed to have. i've fought in the political zones and lived and i've fought there and died... i've invaded enemy territory on a mission to bring back the all important and mysterious "sensitive information" (LOL) and made it home!!! ALIVE!!! past the guards -- past other players -- and my run speed is not all that.

knowing that there are uber players out there that couldn't stop me in 4ho... makes it all the more exciting that i've survived. think of running past OE players as running past deep red MoBs on the way to a mission -- theres always *someone* out there than can kick your @$$... but not *today*.

;o)~

[_______________Intra]

Originally posted by Cz
33 pages?!?!?

/me starts reading, gathering questions, and wondering whether he'll be ready by lunch...

Will get answers and post them as an update in the first post (start of the thread).

Cz

/me makes Cz a pot of coffee...

hehehe... good luck

[_____________Akushin]

I cant keep my mouth shut about this.
Tried to put it to rest in my mind yesterday when i went to bed.
I thought about it this morning, and its still entirely mindboggling how FC, no how Gaute GODAGER will happily approve changes like that and not see the havoc the patch will cause on the community. Does he actually play the game himself?

Patches like that are the AO weapons of mass destruction.

My roommate has played this game so much it worries even me, and i've never seen anyone as distraught as him right now. Its pathetic, but it shows how much it actually matters to him.

I paid for 6 months when i first started playing, and last week i was one mouse click away from paying for another 6. If this patch goes through i dont think ill be doing that.

Cz, dette er no seriøs dritt, det må jeg bare si. Virkelig elendig ide.

- Aku

[Junglerot]

80 crat
110 implants +moch + general int buff = 568 t/s and mc + 132 wrangle = 700 ts/mc

167 minion requires 700 ts/mc

100- (568/700) x 100 = 19 im pretty sure that was the formula from the article

looks like I can control that pet as long as mochums stays up(or until the mission crashes resets and i die 2 hits after reloging but hey im not saying there are mor important issues)

basicly engis have to keep going back to town with there warmachines and slayers in tow get moch recast and go back to mission. which just means they have to spend from 50-200k every 45min of fighting for the uber pet.

wont matter to crats because hell our pets wear out or die as fast as moch half the time

in the long run there are ways around all the OE "fixes" but ill prolly take my pioneer back pack and shove it up someones ass if i waited through all the bull **** bugs since the week after opening day(yes ive been with ao that long and a lev 80 char is my highest) to finally think this game was stablizing and getting fun for me to play and now have one of my favorite aspects taken away (HOURS SPENT FIGURING OUT HOW TO OE SOMETHING CAUSE ITS FUN even though i could have leveled and equiped it in the same amount of time)

one final rant about some douchbags post from earlier
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
disagree. I think Traders will now be welcomed in any team -- in fact they may be vital to any team. This wasn't the case before. As FC pointed out, you paid the trader and left him standing there. Now you -need- him in the mission if you want to use your mega-guns. I think this is how FC envisioned the Trader in the first place, really.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a 55 trader and if i remember right it takes me about oh say 3min to get my ransak/deprives up to cast a decent wrangle(and thats killing leets in the by) the wrangle last 3 min during which i cant refresh my ran/dep so the cycle starts again , kinda boring oh yeah did i meantion that the trader wont be able to backup heal during the wrangle downtime or do a decent mez/charm/root
so yeah that must be what funcom had planed for traders

[_______________Skara]

One of the things I like about the change is my skills will finally come into play.

As it currently is, the game is more about QL of items and not much about my skills. A closer relationship between the 2 would be better.

A master marksman (or woman or a master musician can be given an inferior "item" and make it shine. Will they do as well as they would if they had the superior item? No, that's why they bother buying the good stuff.

But there is no way someone after a few weeks lessons will be able to use the superior QL "item" and surpass the master who is using the inferior item. That is possible now in this game because skill just doesn't come into play enough.

Will additional tweaking be necessary after the patch? I can almost guarantee it.

And people say the game will get dull faster? I was in a group hunting Shades a while back. We had a group of 6 including an uber Engineer and an Uber Bureaucrat. Talk about feeling worthless. Talk about dull. Everyone else was leeching xp. I got decent xp, but didn't do anything. Before I could get there to fight, the Shades were down to 1/4 health.

This change could bring some challenge back into the game instead of people being used to getting a lvl every hour or so.

And there will still be benefits for twinking your character, the difference just won't be as severe. Those who choose to can still push their implants to the limit, and run all the buffs they can handle all the time.

No one has convinced me otherwise. I still like the sound of this patch.

One other thing Cz, will the way AC works for us be modified? I can fight red Fixers because they spend so much time running non-dd nanos. Even they do min dmg all the time, high min dmg but min just the same. When I run my deflect shield it does nothing. It used to decrease their dmg some even though they were doing the same min dmg each hit.

An AC fix on our end would also help with the balancing provided by this patch


Skara

[_________thatDangElf]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
Gaute already said they were done with reducing MOB's power. Read the damn article. They are finished making MOB's weaker.

i did read the article... i was responding to another posters theoretical proposal of 'weaker mobs'... and was horrified by it, heh.

[____________Raysight]

OE is a stupid idea. Just because casual gamers don't have the time to actually learn the game and how things work you are penalizing the rest of the people who pay to play. Every newbie will eventually not be a newbie any longer as they learn the game. When I started when this game hit the shelves, I was a total newb to AO/EQ genre. I didn't know the lingo, commands, skills, anything. I was a "fresh" gamer. I screwed my first character (a soldier) to hell and back with wasted IP's and blew cash on things I didn't know I wasn't supposed to use or wear. (picture a level 30 soldier wearing bau and carrying FA's with a SMG on backup). Eventually I learned about the game and learned how to make implants and picked up skills as I played...casually. Now that its 8 months down the road, I would say I am pretty damn good at the game, not perfect, but good. I don't hunt every day, I don't powerlevel or twink every char or think about it 24/7. I play an average amount and like playing the way things are with the help of my guild and friends and doing whatever I have the time and money for. I help newer players learn how to play their characters and give advice that I never got when I started. I look for the new "Greeter" ARKs and tell them things that they never knew about.

My point is, changing the game after 1/6th of its lifespan is wrong, stupid and shouldn't even be contemplated. Keep the way things are and the way they were intended. After ALL the classes get their "love" patch, then do an IP reset if its necessary. Just don't screw up the game mechanics after they've been set in stone for so long. People will leave, many, many people will leave....making Rubi-ka a deserted world save for the small percentage of people that will "just deal" with one more damn nerf from FC.

Don't do the OE patch. And if you still think you should go through with it after thinking long and hard about it, then make a poll to ask the people. The people of Rubi-ka should decide this...not your corporation.

[Myga]

This might turn out to be the ultimate solution for the lag problems we suffer in cities and places like BS .

[_________thatDangElf]

Originally posted by Skara
But there is no way someone after a few weeks lessons will be able to use the superior QL "item" and surpass the master who is using the inferior item. That is possible now in this game because skill just doesn't come into play enough.

i disagree... as an artist, i now draw better than the person who initially began teaching me how to draw... and whether the person has OE'ed or not, we are still talking in 'weeks' of play rather than the 'years' it would take in RL to become a master MA, or learn how to assemble weapons, etc...

Originally posted by Skara
And people say the game will get dull faster? I was in a group hunting Shades a while back. We had a group of 6 including an uber Engineer and an Uber Bureaucrat. Talk about feeling worthless. Talk about dull. Everyone else was leeching xp. I got decent xp, but didn't do anything. Before I could get there to fight, the Shades were down to 1/4 health.

then don't team with uber players if you don't want to 'leech xp'... a lot people have issues with the pet classes being *uber* even when they use pets only a few levels above their own level. your experience sounds like *accidentally powerleveling* too often... do you solo? what class are you? i am an engie, NT & adventurer. (recently put on the shelf a crat character.)

Originally posted by Skara
This change could bring some challenge back into the game instead of people being used to getting a lvl every hour or so.

not everyone has all day to play, but they also like to get to see more advanced areas before the fun of a game begins to wind down...

Originally posted by Skara
And there will still be benefits for twinking your character, the difference just won't be as severe. Those who choose to can still push their implants to the limit, and run all the buffs they can handle all the time.

i hope that you are right, but maybe you're not playing a character that will be actually affected by the patch. having other characters not be so *uber* making you feel small, is hardly a reason to take the uber abilities away from the ones who love it. "i don't like people in high heels, make them take them off plz... it's unfair for those of us who can't wear them." i can't- i broke my ankle! WAH world -- waah! i feel like a gimp now. :oP durn you...

and get rid of deep red MoBs while you are at it! 8oD j/k (!!!)

[neurozic]

Daddy can I have some ice cream? Please!

[hexxia]

my lvl 84 engie tried self-buffing last night.

I could only use a guardbot. just a normal guardbot. (have 90 implants, will be upgrading soon)

did a few ql 100 missions. not too hard, actually, fairly easy, really.

I couldnt turn the slider up to 100% difficulty and solo 150+ missions.... but so what?

these changes are Good. how are some people saying the game will be easier now... more simple?

getting buffed to max and sticking on a ql200 gun is easy, way easy. living within limits and not using the best items in the game early on is a challenge.