Over-equipping - here we go....

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Zeroshift
This is a horrible patch.

I am all for the overequiping nerf, I love the overequiping nerf, but it is not being done right.

I thought you quit.

[_____________Gokudan]

Has anyone noticed how many people who have NEVER posted a message before think this is significant, some even registered this month (most likely today) to post about how stupid a way of limiting OE this is.

And on a further note, why hasn't an official like Cz come on yet and answered? Do you think it's cause we're right?

[locomdenom]

Originally posted by Anisotropic


OMG don't say the range nerf was a good thing.
read this thread, what your saying is a crok

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&threadid=5426

Think. Did I say mob's range was 40 meters?

Nooooo. I said their PERCEPTION range was 40 meters. Mobs can hit you from further away, if they've perceived you. But they can only perceive you at 40 meters. If you stood 45 meters from a plant 100 levels above you, you could kill it with your long-range weapon without standing a single chance of death. This is called exploiting.

Maitrize - yeah, they should have fixed structure, but it might be too deeply coded to do so. They did fix the exploit, which was their priority. Not perfect, but it works. =(

[____________Maitrize]

Originally posted by Scorus


I would like to see this too, but at least they won't be able to reallocate any IP until they take those massively overequipped implants out.

Scorus

Massively overequipped eh? There are still the statistical requirements outside of treatment.

[______________Akasha]

Originally posted by Jentai
...then have all implants on all characters bumped out on the day of the patch. There are people with Ql200 implants who are going to still be benefitting from gear that they should NOT be using. Otherwise this is just yet another in a long line of "here's our changes, but if you got in there and "cheated" early the world is your oyster" patches that you do so well that keep your player-base low.

JenTai

then make Jentai pay me a few mill so i can get back my Surgery implants and pay docs for another +80 treatment, and an enforcer for Behemoth and Prod. strength, and countless other *legal* buffs it took for me to get my implants on...either that or smack this guy across the face for me for saying the equivalent of "instead of putting effort and time into my char, i'll use that effort and time to try and get FC to nerf those better than me"

[_________Anisotropic]

i think my biggest problem with this, is that they aren't bringing people up, they are, instead, bringing people down..
ie people who have wimpy guns and so forth will still use em. but all that high powered gear will be less effective..


if they are going to do this, they need to also have a subsequent decrease in mob abilities


another solution, which wouldn't punish OE'rs, would be to make a new set of weapon ranges 200-250ql weapons

funcom underestimated americans, they didn't ever expect people to overequipp like this.
they have to realize thou that overequipping is a part of the game, and is a FUN part of the game.

i think it's ironic, that, we now get more tokens for doing harder missions, and funcom makes a disclaimer saying "please don't see this as punishing", when the truth is getting more tokens is the exact opposite of punishment, it's in fact a very nice reward, one of the best things funcom has done, and has in fact kept me in the game, . and now they nerf OE"ing in order to make it more "Fair" when it's really just punishing people for playing smarter and better again.

i think something Does have to be done with obscene amounts of OE'ing, i'm not totally convinced this is the right way to do it yet thou..
i think we need to bring people up to the level's of engineers, and mp's. not bring mp's and engineers down.

non of this really addresses NT"s either..
nt's are already stuck to not being able to over equipp.. we can over equip nano's as long as we have mochams running constantly. we can't use weapons effectivly till we get very high lvl
are nano's don't get much better from lvl 130-200
NT's would be fine, if the mob's weren't so tough.

so.. if you nerf OE"ing, you *NEED* to fix mob's, if you don't you're going to get another mass exdous
btw, there isn't anything wrong with having friends being able to help you. yeah it's harsh on noobs, That's why noobs have to make friends, isn't that part of the game ?

i'll be interested to see how this patch turns out.. and what, if anything they do to mob's and NT's.

[_____________Crymcyn]

Originally posted by JackSwift


I have to disagree here.. .. as my NT When I group with an MP I ask for masteries so that I can cast BIGGER programs while I am in that group. Is that not better? Not to mention when I DO cast those bigger spells my damage will not be lowered due to the OE issue at all.

Saying that you cannot overequip nano programs is just silly. Thanks.

Saying that you CAN is just silly. By Funcom's definition of overequip, you can't. Your skill must currently be X value to cast Y nano. End of story. You can't get wrangled into a new nuke 20% higher than your matcrea then cast it 4 minutes later. While in a group with an MP and having mastery cast on yourself isn't OE. (Not according to Funcom's definition) And as soon as that mastery wears off you can't cast it anymore, period. Now, if you could still cast it at a 25% damage penalty, then it would be OE.

[AmmoMonkey]

Im a lvl 44 bureacrat and im going to be using a ql 57 bot soon with ql 60 implants in and general buffs. I use the charms and have a shotgun 20 lvls above me that i can support currently on my own and i do 80% difficulty missions fine. Engies should be able to do the same since there pet is more uber than mine, has a better damage output and they can use the same kind of wpns. Why should engineers get nerfed?

In my mind i find this upcoming patch is spectacular because i go to pvp and i get my ass womped in 2 shots i mean cmon, currently i only have 3 pvp kills under my belt and that was from 3 hrs of pvp.

[______________Scorus]

Originally posted by Halbundy
Why shouldnt people be able to solo a 70% mission ? I'm not talking about out and out cheaters. I'm talking about those people that have the skill, forethought, patience and imagination to use abilities that are legally in the game

Overequipping requires no skill. I do 70% missions and I have absolutely no weapons, armor or pets that are overequipped by the +20% definition. I am also not a cheater and have never so much as hit myself with a nano to break a root. I'm just a good player who has gotten 6 months of practice at perfecting how to play his character in a mission. THAT is the kind of player that will be able to 70% missions after this change, not someone who was handed a big gun and told how to equip it by a guildmate.

Bring it on!

Scorus

[locomdenom]

Originally posted by Gokudan
And on a further note, why hasn't an official like Cz come on yet and answered? Do you think it's cause we're right?

Cz has answered. However, as he's Norwegian, he's in bed for the day now.

Round about 4-5AM, EST, you might start seeing responses from him again.

Time zones for fun and profit!

[Ygglens]

Originally posted by JackSwift


I have to disagree here.. .. as my NT When I group with an MP I ask for masteries so that I can cast BIGGER programs while I am in that group. Is that not better? Not to mention when I DO cast those bigger spells my damage will not be lowered due to the OE issue at all.

Saying that you cannot overequip nano programs is just silly. Thanks.

Umm... do you even know what OE is?? OE is to use something that you dont have the skill to use... when you are buffed you have the skill to use the nanos, ergo, you are not OE, ok?
NTs have no chans in hell to OE nanoes...

Ymend

[____________Maitrize]

Originally posted by Kiryat


Think. Did I say mob's range was 40 meters?

Nooooo. I said their PERCEPTION range was 40 meters. Mobs can hit you from further away, if they've perceived you. But they can only perceive you at 40 meters. If you stood 45 meters from a plant 100 levels above you, you could kill it with your long-range weapon without standing a single chance of death. This is called exploiting.

Maitrize - yeah, they should have fixed structure, but it might be too deeply coded to do so. They did fix the exploit, which was their priority. Not perfect, but it works. =(

Were you even playing then? level 22? hello? it wasn't an exploit, it was just labeled so after they were saying "no more nerfing" it was just a fancy way to reword it so when they NERFED our range instead of fixing the way the game was implimented we wouldn't have grounds to complain. -_-

Exploits are supposedly bugs used to your advantage.

The range was by no means a BUG. It was the way they'd implimented combat up until that point. It's unrealistic to say that a gun can't fire 40m when it's clearly within visable range and a range from which physically you COULD fire. I'm sorry but I don't think physics would allow anything in Rubika to function on such a entirely different type of existence.

[_________Anisotropic]

Originally posted by Kiryat


Think. Did I say mob's range was 40 meters?

Nooooo. I said their PERCEPTION range was 40 meters. Mobs can hit you from further away, if they've perceived you. But they can only perceive you at 40 meters. If you stood 45 meters from a plant 100 levels above you, you could kill it with your long-range weapon without standing a single chance of death. This is called exploiting.

did you even read the thread? it's a crok, the range nerf was done because of PVP whiners.. remember Engineers, and MP's can still send pets way past 40 meters and go kill plants

[_____________Gokudan]

Originally posted by Kiryat


Think. Did I say mob's range was 40 meters?

Nooooo. I said their PERCEPTION range was 40 meters. Mobs can hit you from further away, if they've perceived you. But they can only perceive you at 40 meters. If you stood 45 meters from a plant 100 levels above you, you could kill it with your long-range weapon without standing a single chance of death. This is called exploiting.

Maitrize - yeah, they should have fixed structure, but it might be too deeply coded to do so. They did fix the exploit, which was their priority. Not perfect, but it works. =(

Let's use that example

Enhanced Shark in Old Athens sewer, can't attack a ranged attacker unless they enter the water, can't escape your attack either = EXPLOIT

So it can perceive u but it can't hit you, yet they made Athens a 75% zone so now we can attack it? Make sense???

[_____________Alicorn]

I cannot tell if this means if someone who can cast numerous self-buffs will be affected?

[_______________Wutto]

Ok,

I have been playing this game since it first came out in the UK (around the time when all your customers left because of you making the mobs in the game impossible to beat even when teaming, and you made the bug problems even worse). I have been enjoying the game so much that at the moment it is all I do. I go to college, come home and play AO till midnight, go to college come home play AO till midnight and i do this all through out the week.

Now all the characters that I have on Rubi-Ka 1 and 2 are "twinked" or "uber" whatever you want to call it. The reason for me doing this is because:

1. If I didn't do it then there would be no point in even playing, the missions you set are way to difficult and the prizes that they give are worthless compared to the prices that you have made items in the shops. I do 70-90% missions and the prizes that they give are not even enough to be able to afford something my lvl in the shops.

2. It makes the game twice as fun, i don't want to just fight mobs lvling all day, it gets very boring and repetative. I mean all we are doing is pressing "tab" and "q" . What the hell is so fun about that? At least when over equipting there is some thinking involved. You have to have freinds who are able to cast the buffs you need, you have to be able to work out how many buffs you will need so you can equip the weapon you have been waiting so patiently to get on. I mean do you think we are all stupid or something, can't you make the game more challenging without raising the difficulty of mobs and decreasing our skills?

3. I want to be better than the average player, i want the game to be competitive. If you make this patch, then you are making us do what you want us to. I mean half of the gamers on AO are overequiped anyway (in some shape or form). The only people who are not are the n00bs or the dumbasses who don't know how to play the game properly. I mean, did you not even think that people would overequip. You have given them all the resources to do it. It's like you giving someone some wood, a lighter, some petrol and then saying "don't make a fire" on a cold night.

If you are going to go ahead with this patch (which me and half the population on Rubi-Ka don't) then you are going to be left with a load of mindless puppets who are too stupid to figure out how to play AO as a stratergy game. You are making a stupid mistake for the second time, and this time i don't think you will be so lucky because this time you haven't got people from Europe buying the game without any knowledge about the **** up that you are about to make.

Galcian - 45 Enf
Wutto - 108 Doc
Bloodvessel - 37 MP

[_____________Gokudan]

Originally posted by Alicorn
I cannot tell if this means if someone who can cast numerous self-buffs will be affected?

E.G. My Trader
I HAVE to use my Deprive/Ransack (not exactly the same, but same point) if I want to use my weapon at it's best on top of the normal buffs and stat boosts

[Bothead]

I posted the first part of this esewhere, thought it needed a place here as well:

"This is not intended as a flame or whine, though some will probably interpret it that way: Why the h**l can't people spend a few hours learning the game mechanics from trial/error and other players, in stead of demanding nerfs? I am asking this because it strikes me as the only reason that 'overequipping' is actullay an issue. Furthermore I don't care much for the term 'overequipping' for the negative connotations, 'building a strong character' is more approprate as long as we are speaking of non-exploiting. Simply paying for high lvl buffs or even begging for them to equip high ql implants and armor/weapons is *NOT* exploiting. Do I have to repeat this to all you whiners for it to sink in?

I am appalled and dismayed thet Funcom even consider changing the game in such a drastic way, I am afraid of the consequences of a game that is stripped of the (fun) content that maximum character improvement is. What will be left to do besides level up and/or roleplay, if your AC and damage are determined only by self-buffs and how you distribute IP as you lvl? There will be far less individuality and specialization if there is only one 'good' way to go.

As the game is today, I spend more time NOT leveling in between the periods of twinking, because I like having a strong char who doesn't die to yellow mobs in the missions I run. For all those who think twinkers are only interested in using those 'uber' chars to gain titles in PvP, you are tragically mistaken; 60% of the people I know in-game don't PvP, but still spend alot of time twinking so they can do missions with better rewards than 40-50% hard ones. I have a lvl 10 char who I have twinked insanely using items with modifiers (pillows) and buffs from other professions to get maximum ql implants. However this is not for PvP, but when he can afford a plane, he will be able to fly it :-) Can that be bad? Sure, some people are always jealous of stuff that others have and they don't, but thats human nature. Don't change the world (Rubi-Ka) to cater for these people. I like the game just fine as it is, with the choice of either to twink for PvM/PvP, or to simply roleplay and enjoy the world of Rubi-ka.

Last, but not least, Funcom: How much consideration have you put into the veritable avalanche of profession rebalancing that will arise from these changes? Not to mention all the balancing you have done now (and is working increasingly well (if you fix the Fixers - had to say it that will be wasted? I say the risk is too great if the goal is merely to satisfy the percentage of your customer base who are still newbies and don't yet know the game properly. There will always be a certain percentage of new players (and lazy ones), who should not be allowed to decide the game content for the rest of us. I believe this is best in the long run."

As it would seem the changes ARE indeed coming, I would ask *kindly* that Funcom do this before bringing them live:

1. Reduce mob/npc toughness PRIOR to the OE changes. This way less people will be pissed off when the '$hlt hits the fan'
2. Have a broad selection of players at different lvls and professions test this *thoroughly* for no less than a month AND iron out all the bugs/exploits and balancing issues that I bet will arise, BEFORE even considering going live.
3. If the testers aren't at least 70% happy about the changes, I would strongly suggest making OE changes live on Rubika-2 only (sorry but I know Funcom won't make a third dimension just yet and there are less players there) and enable characters to switch to their desired dimension.

/me expects flames from Rubi-Ka 2 players, asks for Steel Skin

[__________Mindswayer]

Two Very Enthusiastic Thumbs up on the IP reallocation.

15 Trillion Thumbs down on the OE changes. A flat 25% reduction rate does not fix the major problems with Over Equipping. What happened to Step 1, 2, and 3 reductions like in the original article???

So a level 80 fits into a QL 200 weapon and has it behaving like a QL 150 weapon. It still means we are going to have Enforcers maxing out their equipment at level 80. What's fun about that? With so much importance placed on Equipment, what fun is having no need for new equipment before you've even reached 50% of your levels??? It also means that players with connections and credits are still going to own PvP, since a 25% reduced QL 200 Beam in the hands of a level 80 Enforcer (who has no means to get this item without the connections) is still better than a QL 120 self equipped Beam working at 100%.

[_____________Pinkoid]

I have been reading quite a bit of the posts and must admit that almost everything has been said. My personal opinion on matters?

I think that PvP should be dealt with according to what Funcom has in mind for the entire game. At the moment there's a cap on arenafights already, why not change it so that weapons and armor get the reduction that is intended for the 14.2 patch? That way everyone can PvP someone in their levelrange without too much trouble. When I was playing a lvl 10 enforcer I got my behind kicked by a lvl 8 MP. In a mission I was able to do dmg up to 60 or 70 HP, but against enemy i couldn't get more than 1 point off, while receiving 200 to 300 dmg. Somehow this didn't add up. As I was fairly new to the game at the time I didn't understand a thing about it, now I know.

My personal thoughts on OE are simply: no problem with it as long as you can buff yourself and use implants to equip the weapon of choice. As far as I understand, implants give points that are yours in skills. So putting in implants that give you 45 extra strength or whatever do just that. That is normal and possible in the game. As an enforcer I can then use 2h blunt exp. and headcracker to equip the hammer or beam. Should I use a challenger to equip, the advantage of doing so would only be seen when I use the challenger in battle, increasing my dmg output.

I think it's a good patch, however, from previous posts I do have to agree with some that the monsters in the missions should have their HP more to the level my own char is. I'm a lvl 53 enforcer with a healthpool of approximately 2000, depending on shielding etc. Yesterday I was counting my dmg to a green mob and it turned out it had close to 5000 HP.....

Funcom, please look at this since this is absolutely ridiculous. How on earth can a green nano have more HP than an atrox several (8) lvls higher? You say you reduced the AC on human mobs in 13.8, but I have to say it doesn't do much for me. Oh, and while you're at it, make them run nano's at a lower frequency. At the moment some of them attack me with nano's at a rate no ordinary player can cast them. Ransacks and nanonets are hell. At a point in a mission I had 6 nanonets running and 2 major ransacks and deprives... It tends to slow the gaming experience down to a staggering halt...

All and all I feel this patch is good and I really look forward to the IP reallocation possibilty. Just make sure that the mobs become more realistic in their sklz, since now I can do a 60% solo, but I am really afraid of the 70% solo. Right now I only do 60% tops, let me have fun in an 80% one please...

There. If I think of more reasons why this patch is good, I'll post some more....