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Thread: The Role of the Neutrals

  1. #61

    Re: Worried

    Originally posted by Kirrana

    True Omni

    Omni Neutral


    Neutral Pro Clan

    Neutral Pro Omni

    Clan Neutral

    True Clan

    don't forget

    Lawful Good, Lawful neutral, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Evil, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral (i.e. moi) Oops wait, thats some game, this is war, and that was some 30,000 years ago, sorry *grin*

    *wonders who is "good" and who is "evil" on Rubi-Ka*

    I think its impressive to think that most people have allied themselves to one side or the other, but that there is still a small contingent of folks left who have varied reasons for not allying with The Rebel clans or Omni Tek. I usually say I like things the way they are, and as far as being neutral goes (abilities etc.) I will sat that again. I like things the way they are! I agree with most people who have made statements about life in "Mediocrity" (j/k). "No" to tokens. "no" to neutral applications-but at least make a better effort when people start a character, before they choose sides, to say:

    "Hey look out! Achtung! Danger Will Robinson! Pay attention! If you pick a side your character can never be neutral again! Period. Click here if you have read this. *giggle*"

    Then if people choose to move, they were told.

    Besides, it makes me feel kinda good to hear people say " sigh, I really wish I could be neutral again" %) No to shopping (I am resourceful, and I met friends who are happy to shop for me-you DO meet more people that way). We chose NOT to be in the war as such, though it DOES affect all of us. And any neutral can make that choice at most any time, too. In spite of the disadvantages we have had, I think its amazing to see how resourceful neutrals have become, not just as mercenaries. Neutrals don't need any special favours, we chose the path we are on, just as Omni And Clan folks have. But as Gaute has alluded to, a little more notice every now and then would be nice (stay tuned *wink*)...
    "Ignorance is the greatest evil we will ever face" . -Dr. James Cone, ca 1990 CE

    Available for Weddings, Mediations, Treaties, Celebrations, and Hugs...
    Neutrals come join #neutrality on! Everyone welcome.
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  2. #62

    Neutral Forum

    I really hate to make a shameless plug, but it was advised to me that this was the ideal place to spread the word. Recently there was a neutral forum established. Its meant to be for ALL neutrals, rk1 rk2 affiliated unaffiliated etc. Currently we're trying to build it up as a discussion/neutral related news/scheduling meetings between players, but it may expand depending on what people want. If you want to drop by and see what's happening please do.

  3. #63

    Cool Booya


  4. #64

    Exclamation Territory

    One of the things that constantly occurs to me when dealing with Neutrals is the territory that they occupy. Clearly, there must be an active military element in the Neutral community? Go to any Neutral outpost or city. There are many guards as in any clan or Omni-Tek city.

    And of course, there must be. They must defend the land that they claim as their own. In this sense then, Neutrals cannot possibly all be pacifist or "live and let live".

    I think it is amazing to see all of the different perspectives the many Neutral players bring to the table. Some really are "live and let live". Some are opportunistic black market traders. Others place themselves outside the conflict. There are so many approaches and this is excellent and realistic.

    However, there most definitely must be a "factional" component of the Neutral element, or there would be no Neutral territory. Someone has to defend that and "preservation" often means conflict. And that means organization and leadership!

    There is a hard price for neutrality. It is as much a fight as is taking one side of a two-sided conflict. When an Omni-Tek force comes near a Neutral city and wants to use that city as a staging ground for a military operation, it is the right of a Neutral to say, "I do not take a side in this conflict and I will not allow you to occupy my territory." But that is a right that you must be prepared to defend with military and economic force.

  5. #65

    Re: Territory

    Originally posted by elo
    Clearly, there must be an active military element in the Neutral community? Go to any Neutral outpost or city. There are many guards as in any clan or Omni-Tek city.
    Glad to see that those paper-dolls fooled someone.

    pirates. with lasers.
    Are you having an argument on the internet, again?

    Gene13 - on a space odyssey since 2001
    XXX - N

    Some day your ship will come in, but you will be at the airport.

  6. #66

    Cool Its a war we are neutral to.

    First of all, most of you people take the aspect of the word "NEUTRAL" to encompass every little, tiny, miniscule, insignificant detail as if that should suggest a neutrals true intentions. First of all I believe FC ment neutral was for the war. NOTHING ELSE! So, lets get this right, Neutrals who stay out of the war, ended having to live in Newland and Borealis, most likely forced there...Well that could explain our lack of resources. But certainly that doesn't mean from the ashes of our displacement we cannot become wealthy, powerful people once again.

    As for killing clanners or omni, why would that make us more sided? Killing isn't nessacarily motivated by being sided, neutrals can tell you that. We get massacred continously. If clanners and omni really cared if they were out to kill the other side, then they would take the time to make sure it was the enemy. Which brings me to a very important note....Why is the sided map add-on the hardest thing to use! It sould take only 5 points to use so that those haters can distinquish each other and not kill hapless people milling around. By making the sided add-on so hard to use, its almost as if you encourage the Haters to massacre as if that was the only solution.

    Sure, now you look at us and say well golly gee maybe they don't want to follow along with the war and want to win. You know what? Maybe they think this war is a stupid idea to make them fight and they might want a better roleplaying system in which to express their time. Thats right, maybe forcing people to choose a side is a completely moronic and close-minded way of running a gaming world. Why offer them beef then give them stale toast with not even butter lathered on it. So now you want to kick us in the head and say it was an asprin covered boot. If your going to change the whompas around, insist on making both sides have whompas to neutral places. Stop treating us as if we are left-overs from one faction or another. And add a freaking grid to Borealis dammit!

    [this next paragraph is not condoned by the author, but neither is it not, he will stay neutral to this idea]

    "And one more thing. I do want to win...I want to crush Omni-tek for their take everything attitude, and destroy the clanners for thier lack of a good work ethic. I don't believe either side should be in control of anything. So I plan on helping them weaken each other until a more powerful and right minded influence enters which can better govern in Rubi-Ka. If the Clanners and Omni-Tek could have shown better respect for those whose ideals did not differ, but neither agreed, then I wouldn't feel this way. You don't fight a war to kill, you fight a war to stop killing. Freakily that is the truth behind it."

    I don't truely believe that last paragraph, but if FC wants to make it seem like neutrals want to win, thats a good example of what the role-playing could be like.

  7. #67

    Neutrals as a means

    Okay, I've seen a lot of people cheering for the neutrals for this change to make neutrals more exciting to play. Most of this because so far, everyone that's commented thinks that neutrals are those who choose not to be involved and they're friends to everyone. Hrm... I feel differently.

    I perhaps think the small skirmishes in 2ho and MMD will lead to something big, either the clanners wiping us out of this planet (we'll just build somewhere else) or we removing all the trash and continuing out profitting business as usual. This means it's a war between the 2, Clans and Omnis. Neutrals who are stuck in between can be profiteers, they can be mercs, they can say they choose to have no side, but they definitely should not have it easy. (think Schindler) These are people who are caught between 2 factions (from how the movie clips show, other than Ross and Radiman, all the lackeys are quite fanatical), so 2 fanatical you think they'll think, ooh, you dont want to help us, okay, have a drink and watch us fight? err..... NO.

    Neutrals are supposed to be hunted down and treated as the other side. Neutrals who don't pick up a gun against us are to be used by either side as slaves, bait, or just to be used. The battle was never meant to have a 3rd side, and unless they actually made neutrals a 3rd faction, which means they'll continue to be <tab>targetted, they should and will continue to be looked down upon and treated as who they really are. Traitors to both and friends of none.

    My views on the game, in relations to what Funcom gave us as resources. Btw, this is a game, and for all you know, i just might be role-playing.

    Rayfield, NT, RK2. --I'm there cuz I like less lag in BS:CoH and O-Trade.
    Blue Steel(TM)

    E 86% - S 60% - A 33% - K 20%

    SL upgraded oct 10, 2003

    RK2 - Derek"Rayfield" Zoolander
    RK2 - "Umeshiso" Maki
    RK2 - Sylvester "Code187" Vallone

  8. #68

    The dream of being neutral again

    When i started my character it was neutral and was neutral for a few lvls. I then decided i wanted to see what it was like playing for the clans so i switched to clan only to find that it did not fit with my idea of who this character was. Im now stuck as a neutral in a Clanners body and wanting to break free.
    I hope that Funcom will allows us who wish to turn neutral again the chance to do so..

    I feel that the neutrals should be allowed to form clans. But should not be able to initate clan wars not at all.

    One thing i hope happens is that if people are allowed to turn neutral enough will do so forcing the existing OT and Clan.. Clans to rethink they way these clans are run i see little or no difference between the two sides.

    Except the Omni seem like a rigid bureucratic machine hampered by mindless red tape.
    And the Clans seem more or less paralysed by political infighting and weak leadership.
    Neither side inspires trust or loyalty.

  9. #69

    Neutrals are not a third side!

    While I like most of what this article says, I don’t think you have quite understood what we want (perhaps we don’t know, we’re neutral). The problem is with one sound bite from the article:
    a third party with the intention to "win"
    I don’t believe that creating a third faction that could defeat the Omni and/or Clans is the goal of most neutrals. This could be what some want, but it is definitely not my purpose, nor those I have spoken to. I believe this is contrary to the concept of being neutral. As you will see below, there are many other roles that an active neutral element can follow.

    In the back story, the clans fight amongst themselves. Some clans align while others don’t get along at all. Creating a neutral faction “with the intention to ‘win’” would really be just another clan that hates all the other clans and the omni as well.

    That being said…

    OK, lets face it. The base attributes assigned to the characters we build and play in this game are based on stereotypes. Perhaps "distillates" or "common denominators" are more PC terms, but they have to be this way so that we will recognize and accept them quickly and at face value. This effects not only the original qualities of our characters and the price of various IP, but also the nanos that are provided to professions, weapons we can build buy & use, and possibly even token rewards (how would I know…I’m neutral).

    To supply feedback to Gaute’s final paragraph, I have tried to focus on what the neutral stereotypes are. I seem to have found three different characterization of neutrals: The Independent, The Helper and The Spy.

    The Independent: the blockade running, item smuggling, self interested egomaniac role (Han Solo at the beginning of A New Hope). This type of neutral would put on an Omni ring (already in game) in order to shop in Omni stores then put on a clan ring to look like a clan and sell the stuff at a profit to clan stores. He might team for cash with low levels letting them get XP in mission against the opposing side. This would require someway to designate that the high player not get XP instead of the low character (this might also be too exploitable).

    The Helper: on earth this is the Red Cross or Peace Corps worker. These folks are into helping, aiding, teaching and healing. Perhaps just spending contiguous time in places like Tir, Rome or Newland where the higher level player is constantly bombarded by noobie questions (which I don’t mind at all) should entitle the higher level to a reward. Maybe players could signup for duty in towns like the City of Home where they could heal those who have just escaped missions with some special nano that can only be use during healing duty time and then they get a reward every 100 heals. Maybe they could be the bartenders are scheduled events and get rewards for the service.

    The neutral Spy is not so much the agent, but the double agent. This character would be sought out for teams because a mission requires the team to enter hostile enemy territory. He could be used to retrieve items from where only true neutrals go (or behind a locked door that only an opposite sider or neutral disguised as that side could unlock). He could don his Omni ring and spy on Omni meetings appearing to be Omni then report back to Clanners wearing his clan ring and then take back what he heard at that meeting to the Omni again (if this was something that ever needed to be done).

    Gaute is right, negotiation and diplomacy are important here, but so are deception and greed, healing and tutoring, sneaking and lockpicking.

    I am NOT saying that every neutral fits into one of these categories. Actually, I’m sure they don’t (I’m neutral in part due to my hippy-dippy-peace-love-dove-dope heritage). They are all different mixes of these things and others. These are just the easiest ones to define game changes for.

    Another way to look at this is not what you can give to neutrals, but the Omnis and clans can do to get their allegiance (at least for short periods) as part of the story line. With Omni and Clan both having about 47% on RK1 right now, the 6% of the neutrals can really turn the tide. At 51% Clan to 42% Omni on RK2, the Omnis really need the neutrals help! Perhaps one side or the other could open up shops to neutrals or insurance and mission machines. Maybe some sided special events could be arranged to rush neutral for future assistance.

    I know I have not suggested anything that is really helpful here, but, I did want to suggest a direction other than the neutrals-become-third-side thing. That doesn’t sound like much fun at all!
    RoboKa & RoboKaKa
    Solitus Neutral Engineer & Pet

  10. #70


    shouldn't the shops at the icc be neutral?
    RoboKa & RoboKaKa
    Solitus Neutral Engineer & Pet

  11. #71

    The part that sickens me...

    The part that sickens me is all the neutrals on this board screaming, don't let anyone else be neut unless that start that way. No applications, blah blah blah.. You why some folks didn't choose neutral? Because the game mechanics made it a negative. Perhaps many omni and clans are directly sympathetic to the neut cause, but simply chose incorrectly at the outset not knowing what the world held for them.. Perhaps..

    I would rather see the elitist attitude dropped and a bit more of a welcoming to those that may see this as their oppertunity to choose the side they may have always wanted, but didn't have the knowledge in their char's infancy..

    The oppertunity must be there for the switch. Period. Give the neuts that were neuts so long ago some tag on their name to make them feel better, I don't care, but stop this we can and you can't crud, ok?
    Life doesn't get easier. You just get better at dealing with it.

  12. #72

    The more I think of it ...

    The more I think of it, if FunCom could figure out a way for the Neutrals to 'win' the conflict (perhaps 'rehabilitating' Omni-Tek regarding their ruthless corporate practices and thereby appeasing the clanners) the easier they would have it in ending the first 4-yr story arc. They'd piss off 92% of their playerbase equally rather than having 46% happy and 46% stop paying for and playing the game.

    They could then set off on a better planned second story arc where we wouldn't have to worry about 'Little Johnny' cancelling his account because his side 'lost'. I can't wait for the mass defections to ensue once FunCom decides to let the shoe drop and let the players know which side is going to 'win'. If it's the Neutrals, hehe, at least they won't be having everyone defecting to their side. You can't. =)

    In a perfect world all the players of AO could sit back and enjoy a good plot unfolding around them regardless of the end result. After all it's the journey that matters in a story. Not necessarily what happens on the last page. However, I think FunCom did not take into consideration the average U.S. male 13-21 who will not accept 'losing' at any cost and in fact has been bred so as not to understand the concept of 'losing' or how to handle it.

    In short. Sure, if you can let us 'win' without sacrificing our integrity and individuality for the sake of the game and the story, I'll deal with it.

  13. #73
    this is 1 planet with 2 sides....and the conflict only have those 2 a way....somewhat similar to US vs China/Russia during the McCarthy era. You're either with us, or you're a Commie...

    neutrals are the ones that don't bother with Clanners way and thought of by Omni officials as the equivalent of Clan trash, because they do not function by Omni's company policies. Just like most people who live abiding by their country's laws, Clanners don't, and neutrals are stuck in either they have some trades they helps them survive, or they will be constantly harassed by both sides. This is the penalty for not choosing a side....

    Neutrals are NOT a faction, they are nothing.

    Rayfield, NT, RK2. (from someone who always rolls his missions at Newland)
    Blue Steel(TM)

    E 86% - S 60% - A 33% - K 20%

    SL upgraded oct 10, 2003

    RK2 - Derek"Rayfield" Zoolander
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    RK2 - Sylvester "Code187" Vallone

  14. #74


    So this is the first time I have ever posted. *bows*

    First of all, I would like to say that I am very happy that neutrals are starting to get some attention and I am looking forward to any changes that Funcom puts in, i.e. the additional whompas really sound cool.

    When I started play AO in August, I created a clan adventurer. As I played and met people I quickly discovered that most of my friends were neutrals. They were great roleplayers and just generally nice!

    Despite my clan affiliation, I discovered I was much more neutral minded. After a lot of consideration I created a neutral character, and despite the challenges (although I do not miss token hunting, lol) I have been very pleased. The neutral community is very interactive; as I read through ALL the posts (whew, that took a while ), I recognized a lot of the names as people that I either knew or at least saw on the street on a regular basis.

    I believe that neutral is not so much a "side", but an anti-side, a belief that both sides have valid and invalid arguments. Neutrals do have an important part in the storyline, not just because we could become the swing-vote, but because the neutral faction is an integral part of the community, and as such deserves to have a voice.


    -Ellipsana neut lvl 45 adv Independent Republicans
    -Elspeth clan lvl 57 adv
    Ellipsana neutral adv
    Board Member of Neutral Underground Trade Syndicate

    Elspeth clan adv

    Words of wisdom...

    For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.
    He who hesitates is probably right.
    Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines.

  15. #75

    Re: some misguided neutral improvement suggestions

    Originally posted by burrowowl

    Application Forms:
    Please don't do this. There are far too many opportunists swapping back and forth between Omni and Clan to get to advantageous hunting grounds as it is, without folks being able to switch to Neutral.

    The lack of application forms gives characters such as Fractaloon, Nyadach, Trevelar, and other high level Neuts a form of bragging right that OT and Clan characters can only dream of. Every neut that runs into a mid-high level fellow neut knows they are dealing with a serious player that is willing to make decisions and stick to his guns. I presently run three neut characters, from lvl 21-46, of three varying professions, and I'm proud to have deleted my Low Level Application forms. Someday when my MA is lvl 150, I hope to have the kind of respect afforded to my Neut elders. Please don't water this down.
    There are no application solely because neutrality was not an intended role, at the beginning there weren't even superior shop terminals. From a role playing standpoint it made sense, as it was assumed players would pick a side. Now people want to change the definition of neutral to "an alternate side" with a political position rather than "no side at all / undecided". This is fine (though I disagree), but from a role playing standpoint there must be application forms. What kind of faction would not be actively recruiting new members? Can't players change their mind? If someone can reject Omni (by turning Clan) and reject Clan (by turning Omni) then it stands to reason a player can reject both and choose the "third" side.

    Someone else suggested the creation of a fourth alignment which essentially equated to "none". This is a good idea - it should represent the state of not being in any alignment (the intended role neutrality). Go Clan, get a token board. Go Omni, get a merit board. Go neutral, get a membership card. Delete your board or card and you get back to none. There should be rather severe penalties for leaving a faction, e.g. if you start neutral, then join clan, you can't go back to neutral for quite a while (months).


  16. #76

    To all neutrals

    Some of this is good news, technically, but lets not forget, beeing neutral isnt supposed to be easy. So lets not spoil the neutrals too much no matter how many players wants this and that etc. If they can't handle the role of beeing neutral, the ideology one is supposed to have as a neutral, not wishing fortune by forcing one's opinion's on another faction/person/group of individuals, then i suggest they become clan or omni.

    the Urge/wanting of an opinion to be "expressed",seeking others to share it is one thing, but acting upon it, forcing it upon others isnt neutral at all. Let those neutrals interested speak for themselves, let them express themselves and be heard, but do not let them force themselves upon us as the speaker of all neutrals in general, by doing so, one is no longer neutral in the way of thinking and acting.

    I believe this is about respect, not seeking a goal over someone dead body, or by surpressing or freezing out someone.

    Recently, many of the Neutral guilds were gathered to make a council, a council to speak for the neutral guilds. Somewhere in all of this, someone took the idea to the more extreme, stating the council should be for expressing the voice of ALL neutrals, now the idea / intent might be good, but in doing so it is not good. Again, i cant express this enough, doing so, electing one self as the unified voice of all neutrals, without having all neutrals electing such a council, is again, not a neutral thing to do, and thereby such a council, if risen in that way works against its own supposedly goal/ideology.

    Further more, a true unafilliated neutral is supposed to be just that, not having too much of an opinion, and a wish of staying out of the conflict in the extent possible, also beeing aware that clan / omni might force you to choose a side etc since this is their strategy, which is completaly different than a true neutral.

    In other words, why have a council to speak for "all" neutrals, when most of the % of all neutrals are unafilliated, non guilded and the members in this council ARE affiliated and in a guild?
    to make it simple, why make a council consisiting of a MINORITY to represent the MAJORITY?

    And WHY does this MINORITY so much want to force the MAJORITY to have a voice when the majority consist of persons unafilliated which doesnt want to have a voice/opinion, they just simply just want to go about their own business.

    The only way of such a function, would atleast having the MAJORITY represented in such a council also, infact in such a great number that they outnumber the MINORITY representatives,
    isn't this how ANY orginasation based on freedom and voting should be based?
    If 95% of all americans were democratic, would you then like a congress of communists representing YOU?

    A neutral isnt just a neutral. You can be the true unaffilliated neutral who don't care, and just go about your life.
    Or you can be a twotimer, playing both the omni/clan side against eachother, then your'e really not a neutral, but more of a cameleon.
    Or you can be a neutral affiliated in a guild, seeking to protect yourself since you consider yourself a faction. A true unafilliated neutral don't consider themselves a faction.

    Speaking about the term "Opinion", you dont't NEED to have an opinion to be intergrated to a RPG/storyline, the neutrals are allready in the storyline and will continue to do so no matter opinion of not, and what has put them in the storyline is the actual not having an opinion, trusting IIC more than they trust clan/omni, since IIC is the only org. for them that still hasnt been corrupted or seek fortune by stepping over dead bodies.
    To those of you who actually THINK that neutrals wont make a difference over the 4 year period or be intergrated into the storyline much deeper in those 4 years just because they dont express their opinion, i say think again.
    Don't forget this is a GAME, a storyline, accept it, play with it, this isnt a pizza or a menu where you can change the extra cheese just because you dont like cheese, if you dont like cheese then don't go into a pizza restaurant, and once there, don't force the management to start making all their pizzas without cheese, that is the clans/omnis's role, THEY can force a restaurant to do just that, its part of their role to do so, as a neutral you cant.

    As a hardcore longtime RPG'er i've learned not to bribe the GM, not to try and make the surroundings fit me or adapt to my nature, when i enter a surrounding i adapt to IT, not vice versa.
    Expecting the surroundings to adapt to your personal selfish needs isn't beeing a good RPG's, its called training/cheating in most shoot-up/action games, and in a MMORPG this is an advanced longterm version of cheating/training.

    What's next? neutral AO players demanding that wizards from lord of the rings should be incorporated and then funcom have to bugle for you and follow your wish? do you REALLY want funcom to destroy the original AO consept to satisfy your needs and wishes? if you want a whole other consept or storyline of logic or ideology i suggest you play another game, and don't try to force funcom to change AO into something it was never intended to be.

    Also, recently, some neutral guilds, and their leaders, have shown the unprovokened will to put other neutral guilds in bad lightning to make themself look better, or may it be jelousy, or competativeness. Neutrals are supposed to be on the same side, supposed to be friendly, and by initiating actions to harm other neutral guilds without beeing directly provoked is one of the most anti-neutral things that can be dont.
    And the fact that some leaders and guilds have shown this will to do so unprovoked relly dissapoints me and makes me realise that far too many have forgotten or never learned what beeing neutral is about.

    All in all, funcom is doing a great job, and most of their decisions always incorporate some dilemma, if they do this, 50% of the players will get angry, and the 50% of the others will get happy, this way funcom will always be appriciated and flamed either way, and when starting to force even funcom, not just other neutral players to make serious changes in the ideology of neutrality itself, then there's something very wrong with the picture.
    By saying that, i meen urge/will/wish for something can sometimes make people blind, not seeing the difference between right and wrong. I see alot of wrong, also done by neutrals high up in the society, and it dissapoints me, but as a neutral i cant force them to do anything else. The day i force them, im no longer neutral.

    Personally, as i've seen many flame funcom for this, and that etc etc, i can say safely, that i have lot more to point on the players than i can on funcom. Funcom has delivered a game, which is far
    beyond the imagined capabilities even for the most oldschool programmer (including me), it has many faults, most technically, but this isnt the year 2050, this is 2002, and making such a huge game, with an enormous DB of items, landscape, persons, conversation, actions and physical rules for what happens when any of those DB items collides/interacts with any of the other items in this DB is a ENORMOUS job to handle/make and keep rolling smooth at all times, expecting anything more at this stage is equal to believing in Santa Claus, heck, you should all be happy you even HAVE a computer and the opprtunity to take part in all of this, think of the billions who dont.

    I say shape up, and start acting like RPG'ers instead of selfish demanding customers both ingame and OOC. Most say they want this and that done with the storyline, that this & that doenst SUIT their need in the storyline etc. What have most of YOU done to live by the storyline, to adapt to the surroundings, most players run around in 100KG heavy armour ALL day, sleep in it, dance in it, always wear it, overtweak themselves etc etc, ALL because they PRIORITIZE thie PERSONAL goal MORE than adapting to the ACUTAL storyline. Heck, as far as i know, im the only neutral who hasnt worn armour even once since lvl 1, because i play a true neutral, i dont as neutral seek situations on intent that forces me to defend myself or fight, this i don't wear armour. I live in Oslo, in the real world, and when i go out to a disco, i sure don't wear armour. If i KNEW i might end up in a fight on the subway on the way to town then i MIGHT consider starting to wear a bulletwest, if it occured daily on the subway, but it dont, and the same goes for a neutral in daily life they don't expect to be attacked.

    And then there is the lack of initiative from 80% of the players to do nothing else than leveling/hunting/teaming. And the blaming of funcom that that is the only thing to do in AO. Look around, there are thousands of AO players, which are living reallife players controlling them which are capable of interacting with you in any way possible if you want to make RPG-events etc like huge battles, parties, making virtual companies, beeing a DJ, designer, etc. Use your imagination, proof worthy as a player before running to funcom's lap and crying how sorry they should feel for poor you, it's hypocretic.

    And then, when you're a worthy player, even then, don't come running and try to force AO into something it isnt, by changing the whole consept of neutrality etc. Learn to accept it, live with it-

    Many say their so proud of beeing hardcore neutrals, what's there to be proud of once beeing neutral is no longer hard to be?
    What's the point even of beeing neutral then, when neutral has just become another "faction" as omni/clan? Ask yourself, is this what you want? That beeing neutral in the future is no longer seen as hardcore/challenge to both play tehcnically AND RPG, but instead seen as the group of people who got their will because they came crying to funcom to make it easier on them? Or maybe we should ask funcom to make more neutral factions? "a little neutral" "semi-neutral" "omni-neutral" "clan-neutral" and "fully neutral"?

    I'm sure some, still blinded by their own personal goals will feel offended by what i write here, maybe it's the way i speak that is offending, or the words and terms i say it in. I could say, i sure hope so, that would just proove my point even more, but i wont say that, because i don't hope for anything, i can have an opinion about all of this, and i can be dissapointed in many of the neutrals, which i am, but i wont hope in changing you in either way. why? because i am Neutral....

    Amona - Omega

  17. #77

    Exclamation umm... ithink theres a problem

    Once u start implementing territory capture it will be hard for the nuets to survive. Their capital is in the middle of clan territory, and no real movement for low lv nuets to return to nuetral territory. that's my only problem with it. other than that it's a great idea.

  18. #78

    The Andromeda Question

    Originally posted by RoboKa
    Another way to look at this is not what you can give to neutrals, but the Omnis and clans can do to get their allegiance (at least for short periods) as part of the story line ... Perhaps one side or the other could open up shops to neutrals or insurance and mission machines. Maybe some sided special events could be arranged to rush neutral for future assistance.

    I would add to the statement above that if OT or the clans thought neutral aid to be important then they would probably not condone gunning down neutrals in the streets of their cities. Nor would they condone the practice of targeting neutrals in the political zones which could address some of the concerns brought up in previous posts relating to life as a Neutral.

    Considering the size of the Neutral population it would seem important that both sides would have the following on their agenda:
    (1) Neutrals should have positive image of this side.
    (2) Neutrals should have negative image of the opposing side.
    (3) Becoming neutral should appear to be a bad option for my side to keep people from leaving. (not currently an option)
    (4) Becoming neutral should appear to be a good option to members of the opposing side. (not currently an option)
    (5) Remaining neutral should seem like a worse option to neutrals than joining my side.

    I believe that if either side is to consider trying to win over either individuals or support from the Neutrals should have such an agenda.

    Given such motivations I doubt OT or the Clans would like to tell their high level members who would have the most to lose if they went neutral that they would still get to buy advanced/superior items. Although going neutral is not an option now I would condone making it possible for a sided person to become neutral with the caveat that it should be permanent. (Of course I agree with a previous post that the side swapping is far too easy.)

    As for the Andromeda question it would seem to be in OT's interest to improve its image with ICC and so a Whompa in Andromeda could be used to aid in PR with both neutrals and ICC, it would facillitate the conversion of neutrals to OT and last but not least bring OT closer to finding the Dust Brigade.

    However for OT to put a Whompa in a neutral city could be viewed by the Clans as an aggressive violation of the Tir Accord and as such should not be undertaken without the CoT's approval. Such approval would make Andromeda the diplomatic center of Rubi-Ka. (I am thinking of it as the Paris of Rubi-Ka)

    Lastly I can't help but point out that the Fixer role is currently under consideration because they serve little purpose. My first reaction is that it seems Neutral Fixers are a natural. Many previous posts seemed to indicate that the opportunistic mentality of a Fixer would make them natural Neutrals. Granted I am a Neutral Fixer so my opinion on the matter is slightly biased but there is one consideration that I didn't see mentioned elsewhere and is as follows.

    Part of what makes a Fixer unique is the ability to get to remote locations via the Grid. One of the things I am looking forward to the most is being able to use the Grid to get to OT territory. Now I just can't help imagining the following hypothetical conversation:

    Me: Yahoo! I can finally use the Grid to get to Omni-1 (after 20 lvls of killing soldiers and nano-technicians and martial artists who are much better equipped to fight than myself...) It took work but it will be worth it when I finally get to use the Grid! Omni-1, here I come...

    Some lvl 3 Neutral in Omni-1: Why didn't you just take Whompa in Andromeda?

    Me: What?!?! What are you doing here?

    Some lvl 3 Neutral in Omni-1: I am just here to buy some stuff...

    Me: Noooooooo!!!

    (possibly over dramatized to make the point)

    The complaints in previous posts about neutral's needs for clothes/food/advanced/superior seem naturally like the sorts of needs Fixers are around to Fix if the price is right.

    As I don't know much about what the plan for Fixers is shaping up to be I can't say that I would consider the above issues as very serious but I do think them relevant at least.

    All in all I can see that Andromeda would make a great city for diplomacy among other things and I am actually excited about a more connected world. As for the role of Neutrals it seems fairly well defined. We are an ad hoc collection of the opportunists, ideologists and the insane to whom the hard life of staying alive in the center of a war seems a better option than joining either side in the conflict. Sounds like the good life to me!

  19. #79

    Well here is my 2 Creds

    In Newland why is there two whampas to clan and one to Neutrals. I think it should be one of each. One to the ICC HQ, one to Omni Ent, and one to Athens. Then each one of these area would be a hubs for that side.

  20. #80

    Re: ps

    Originally posted by RoboKa
    shouldn't the shops at the icc be neutral?
    Good point, I have seen sided shops in other Neutral areas too.
    "Ignorance is the greatest evil we will ever face" . -Dr. James Cone, ca 1990 CE

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