MP Wishlist: Glacial Tomb nano

[Sallust]

Along the lines of needing a better nuke and something "extra" for PvP.

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Nanocrystal: Glacial Tomb

Reqs:
Psymod: 770
Matter Cration: 910
Level 155
Nanocost: 625

Effects:
Range = 25 meters

Attack skills:
Matter Creation 75%
PsyMod 25%

Defense Skill:
Nano Resist 90%

Attack time: 2 seconds
Recharge time: 6 seconds

Damage 1,000-1,700
Stun duration: 3 seconds, Strain 147
(Use the new SL ranking and have it overwrite all other stuns)
Taunt Target: 3337

Description: This nanoformula uses the will of the Meta-Physicist to cause nanobots to gather water in the area in to an absolute zero energy bond around the target. This causes them to have their movement and combat abilities completely restricted as if they were stunned. The total lack of energy also does cold damage to the target for a short duration until Entropic heat breaks the Glacial Tomb.

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A long recharge stun nuke would be highly valuable to the higher level MP. Useful in both PvM and PvP. The long recharge prevents it from doing too much damage, but could give the MP a much needed moment of respite. The stun duration is less than Curse of Chronos, so the target isn't too heavily restricted. Its attack speed can be brought down to instacast for those emergency situations where it could be needed.

Constructive criticism for improvement appreciated.

[Jynne]

Main "problem" I can see is that two or more MPs synching this nano, similarly to how doctors sync complete heals, could (if it wasn't highly resistable) completely immobilize a given target an render it almost totally unable to fight.

On the one hand this would be a very nice pvp power for the MP, on the other hand, it would be 'wizkill' (a la the GA nuke) any time two MPs were around unless the nano was at least 140% nanoresistable - which would then reduce/remove its utility in PvM.

Stun-locking by two MPs would be an almost undefendable mass PvP "pick-off" tactic with an 80% resist rate nano. It would especially suck for major targets like docs and NTs.

Edit - added "un"

PS - I realize this would take good timing and that there'd be slipups... but once you expand to 3 or 4 MPs synching on chain casting this nuke, then whatever they're attacking isn't going to get to take a single step unless they get a lucky resist.

If you changed it so that it ran a nano effect in the target's NCU that prevent it from stunning again for 10-15 seconds or something, even if someone else cast it - but still let the damage land - that would be more balanced for a low NR nano.

[Sallust]

Not possible to lock someone up with 2 MPs. The players, internet connections, and servers would all have to have perfect synch. Curse of Chronos works the same way, ever seen that effectively used as you described? I haven't.

The resist level is low because of the unsightly nano resists many people are capable of at the levels this nuke is usable. Nano resist is going to continue getting even worse at higher levels further reducing the use of our nukes and debuffs. This is designed as a high level balance to it.

Why not allow a team of 4 MPs to be a frightening sight in Mass PvP? While they're picking off one opponent, an equal number of opponent NTs could be Kelling the entire group.

I'll keep it in mind and consider raising the NR a bit, but for now I still think its balanced.

[_______________Hypos]

3 or 4 of any prof should be able to get an easy kill if they gang up on a single target. In most cases, it would be by mass damage, like instakills with alphas. Compared to a trip to reclaim, being stunned doesn't look all that bad. So, allowing 3-4 MPs to kill a char in PvP seems ok to me.

One thing I'd want to be sure of is that a targetted player could still /terminate if a group decided to chain stun him for a half hour.

[__________THEDEACON!]

why does the nuke need to have a long recharge? Long recharges make this nuke worthless.

Evocation 1 second cast (lots of nano init here) 6 second recharge

Glacial Tomb 1.5 second cast (again, lots of nano init) 6 second recharge???

rethink that.....using glacial Tomb and then trying to follow up with a dominate or wrath debuff would make evocations lapse.

THREE SECOND MAX RECHARGE. We already have enough silly crap with 6 and 10 second recharge times to need yet another

Look at resonance blast.....9 second cast, 2.5 second recharge. Even those times would be more acceptable imho.

Keeping everything else in tact, change the stun aspect to a 35% chance of doing a 1 second stun and a 10% chance of doing a 3 second stun.

Also add in a 40% chance of a cold AC debuff of 2000 (to assist and compliment with the skeleton pet's cold damage attacks).

Anyone that says that's overpowered must not pvp too much

[Sallust]

Agreed that 3-4 of any profession should be able to easy kill one of another. Anyone who can be nuke-stunned for an hour and still not die is, uh, very overpowered. Also keep in mind, that assumes they don't get even a single resist or fumble. Not too likely to happen.

Not being afraid of soloing 4 MPs at once proves this nano is needed. Now to make people afraid of 4 melee advents.

[Cboath]

I would suggest one change. Make it 95% or 100% nano resist but i am unfamiliar with high lvl nano resist as i dont usually live long enough to get more than a couple of nanos off if i am even that lucky. At lvl 155 i still own soldiers even 10 lvls higher than me, that i know of. At 175 and higher with there added AR and if extremely lucky to have a boosted whatever it is I am toast, but that could be that i am just inexperienced. Unless they are much higher than me i am just toast which is as it should be.

[Xtremtech]

Late at night and just off to bed. Just one thing sprang immediately to mind: did you consider making the stun a % chance of landing thing like the fast NT nuke/stuns?

That way you can pull down the recharge time while still allowing a chance of stun. If memory serves the NT one has only a 33% chance of stun and so casts like an ordinary nuke.

Just throwing grist on the mill as my brain is all fuzzy right now... I need sleep.

X

[Rhynoman]

Having a 33% chance of hitting on it would keep people from synching the nano. Though I've never really had a problem with people using strategy in a fight. Better than dying just because the person hit Q first.

[Sallust]

Because it doesn't work.

You see 3 MPs could theoretically do the exact same thing with CoC right now. You'd have to work real hard at it, and the truth is you'd fail anyways due to synch and resist. In the end you're making all that effort of 3 people just to keep 1 person stunned. So just one other buddy could go around and slay all 3 MPs rapidly, especially with the long recharge times.

I'd consider changing the stun on it. Which is more important to people, having a short stun that does damage? Or a superior nuke with a chance of stun?

(Didn't realize the NT one only had a chance of stun, I must have gotten really unlucky when I've been hit by it).

[Shadowzar]

I like it..if we are going to have some nukes this should be it..I find that the fact that MP's could chain stun people to death a little far...1st I have rarely seen 4 High lv MP's together in any battle hehe but really, it would be no difference than the mass slow and soilders come around and alpha the hell out of you..

[Sallust]

Also note that in IS there are some new items that give increased resistance to stun and big Nano Resist buffing items as well. I really don't see the Cold line resist factor and higher reliance on MC skill to be too big of a skill. It should still get resisted fairly often by those who have maxed NR.

This nuke is slow, and nothing can be done about it. The only way you'd take someone down is in combination with alphas... where the stun factor is kinda pointless. You might be better going with MQ because its quicker.

In PvM it would be wonderful. Just a brief nuke to do some damage in a team while the mob has HP. The stun factor could be enough to save someone who is going to go down to the Mob.

In PvP where this really shines is for the MP running on full defense. It wouldn't be much different than casting another nuke with a higher attack time and faster recharge because of the agg settings. It would hamper your opponent, maybe even give one of the new pets a chance to hit them. Hopefully your opponents might think about taking down other targets that go down faster (don't stun them).

If its overpowered and want to convince me to tune it down, you're going to have to convince me why this would be overpowered when Curse of Chronos obviously isn't. So for those of you opposed... there is your direction.

[Xtremtech]

Hiya Sallust,

For me the question of overpowering doesn't revolve around whether 3 MPs could get together and stun somebody/a mob continually. For me the question of overpowering would be that they wouldn't need anybody else to provide the damage while they kept the guys stunned. You've rolled a nuke into a stun.

On the stun side I did a couple of level 200 missions on test last night and was trying some new tactics out (including the mez pet incidentally) and I was using CoC a fair bit in one of them. It landed every single time at nano-resist 130. On live I can land the stun 50% of the time in QL210+ missions at nanoresist 130 and land my Cold nuke nearly every time at nano resist 85. You're suggestiing tying a stun to a nanoresist of 80 - so in PvM content it will be quite easy for an MP to land it nearly 100% of the time. Then add in that you've rebalanced the attack skills to our strongest skill and it becomes even easier.

I know you're deisgning the nuke for PvP, but you need to consider the PvM application of it too.

Two MPs who work well together and have a half-way decent connection could stop most mobs altogether - and at the same time do damage. Even if timing and stuff isn't perfect they'll stop the mob from moving/attacking for a good 80% of the time which isn't going to hurt them very much at all.

It's a very powerful thing indeed to be able to stun so easily and do damage at the same time. Still the recharge on the nuke is long. So the damage levels aren't going to be massively high.

I'd suggest that a slightly higher nano resist will be necessary. You've already made it easier to land by skewing the attack skills and it's just a plain fact that nearly all debuffs like these have at least 100 Nanoresist. The nanoresist should really be 100.

Either way, you should also include a strain value to put it into strain 147 and you need to include an NCU value to decide which other nanos in that strain will overwrite the debuff and which other nanos in the strain will be overwritten by it. I'm also missing a range on the nuke and the customary taunt that always accopanies a stun.

X

[Shinobi]

LOL way overpowered but bump for an imaginative nuke
Stun+Dam with only 6 sec recharge?
uber uber uber no matter what Deacy says

[Jynne]

Xtremetech got across better what I was trying to say, Sallust - I was applying the "stun locking" concept to both PvP and PvM.

I used to play an enchanter on everquest for two years, and I'm very familiar with the stun locking concept because I used to do it almost every day I played. The only reason I didn't stun lock every single pull in EQ was because it was horribly mana inefficient there, and there were no nano rechargers - you had to sit and wait on regen ticks to bring your mana back up. That's how powerful stun locking is.

[Sallust]

Edit:
Added a nanocost, a high one. You won't be casting this nuke all day.
Raised the NanoResist to just above that of Glacial.
Added the Strain information, same as other stuns of course. It should overwrite the longer stuns IMO because this is also a nuke. No combining this with curse.

I would want something with a high % chance of stun still if I reduced it that way. I'd increase the attack time and decrease the recharge time if I did that.

The other option is to possibly knock it down to a 2 second stun.

Good feedback so far, thanks.

[Xtremtech]

Bump. Are you happy with the proposal as it stands above Sallust? Anybody else have major issues with it?

X

[Sallust]

I would like some more comments on my proposal hopefully.

I'm probably ibe nclined to either knock down to a 2 second stun or a % chance of stun so long as it is over 50%. But I still need to have it explained how its a problem when Curse of Chronos isn't.

I still think its quite a stretch to say you could get 6 MPs safely leveling through a mission using this. It seems no more likely than 6 MPs using CoC today on mobs and just allowing the pets to plow through them.

I've been in teams of 4 MPs and just considered it a wasted effort because of adds, the nanocost, and the level of synchronizaiton needed.

[Xtremtech]

Bump. Time to put up a final proposal Sallust?

X

[Xephydes]

.... I would really like to see us MP's having a nuke with a higher minimum damage. At least 1100-1200, because you all know how often we hit for minimum damage. Make recharge shorter, make attack time longer. Am I the only one thinking this? Having Rule of One in mind, with a minimum damage of 1375?