Soloing and Teaming (the conclusions)

[___________stifelife]

FIX THE FIXER ALREADY
FIX THE FIXER ALREADY
FIX THE FIXER ALREADY
FIX THE FIXER ALREADY
FIX THE FIXER ALREADY
FIX THE FIXER ALREADY
FIX THE FIXER ALREADY
FIX THE FIXER ALREADY
FIX THE FIXER ALREADY

LEVEL 90 CRAT

[Myga]

Biggest problems with solo for me is the following:

- To slow xp, 3-4times as much playtime per levels as grouping. In no other game I have played is solo so slow compared to groups.
- Missions to big. If you go LD and die or die for another reason you loose ALL xp. Since savespots often are miles away this is a big problem for me (been disconnected alot lately and spend hours completing 1 mission and end up with hardly any more xp than when I entered because of deaths).
- Debuffs slow down solo player to much. Ok in a group if some doc cast rapid palsy on a teammember the group wont stop until the debuff has worn out on that single member. But for the solo player, trying to fight with powerful debuffs on can often be suicide. If I have missions full of casting human NPCs I get debuffed every second pull and this is just to tedious and boring. I dont think debuffs effect pet professions.
- To powerful NPC spells. Seriously at lvl 142 I have green con doc mobs slapping cellular decompositeion and all consuming toxin on me, after opening up with rapid palsy. Thats dots doing 700dmg every few sec and a slowdown more than halving my attack speed. How can I win against that? The mob has gotten 5 times as much hp as me and he hit for maybe 1/5 but they cast more powerful nanos than I am able to at same lvl.

You have alot to improve to make solo an alternative at higher levels. Today trying to solo tend to become incredibly frustrating with 0 gain because of deaths. I only do it to try complete my next token board and that been a pain since last patch because I can no longer consistantly get missions in the small grey caves.

[_____________Leopard]

Fixing MS's, Agents, then Adventurers?

This means Agents get tweaked twice.. to me, it sounds unfair. I guess it was eitehr Cz or Cozmic how said Adventurers are due directly after the MAs...? So.. now another Agent fix in between... sucks imho (sorry to all Agents, but you had your turn... )

Oh, btw... if you really touch the Agents again.. give them the ability to shrink others, not just themselves... I always wanted to be a sabretooth the size of a leet

Take care,
Leopard!

[Myga]

Originally posted by Leopard
Fixing MS's, Agents, then Adventurers?

This means Agents get tweaked twice.. to me, it sounds unfair. I guess it was eitehr Cz or Cozmic how said Adventurers are due directly after the MAs...? So.. now another Agent fix in between... sucks imho (sorry to all Agents, but you had your turn... )

Oh, btw... if you really touch the Agents again.. give them the ability to shrink others, not just themselves... I always wanted to be a sabretooth the size of a leet

Take care,
Leopard!

Hopefully advents get their turn soon. However your statement about agents getting tweaked twice, I can assure you agents have only been nerfed since release. 2 small positive changes has compansated a tiny bit for previous nerfs, thats all I can think of.

[Myga]

I have a suggestion regarding gameplay. With the power debuffs get at higher levels I would like to see nano resist beeing more efficient against them. Today I never resist anything it seems. Also it would be nice if at least roots/slows got periodic checks against nano resist so they would wear out faster on ppl with high resists. I think that would be nice against all debuffs actually, but particularly against roots/slows so you dont stand there 5+ min without beeing able to do anything at higher levels (especially if todays means of breaking them is nerfed).

[____________DarkTide]

I'm pretty happy with the Adv heals at lvl 46. Crowd control nanos would certainly be a nice bonus, as we Adv tend to put a lot into nano skills for morphs/heals.

My only 'big' complaint with the Adv is the morphs. Morphs have an AC bonus but no LIFE bonus. I would think transforming from a lil solitus to a building-sized pit lizard might add just a lil bit of health.

I don't feel that Adv make 'the best' meat shields however. By wearing tank armor we gimp our heals to much. Enforcers and Soldiers are better, then the Adv and MA.

And for you fixers: The fixers should definately be next on the fix list considering I honestly don't know the usefulness of a fixer =/
(no offence). I know where every other profession shines, but I can't say I know what a fixer can do that's REALLY useful.

Can't wait for the Adv-lov'n patch, will be good I hope.

All the gameplay suggestions mentioned in the article sounded great as well. Would really like to see all this stuff implemented.

[_____________Kwangju]

postbee says:
As a MA i don't really want a better healing ability, what for? If
i only do small amount of dmg against a mob, heal no matter
how good it is, will eventually eat up my nano and i'll die in
front of a green anun slasher with 75% of remaining life ...

Uh.... then maybe you should play an enforcer that uses MA attacks. Or maybe the Anun does the kind of damage we MAs should be doing.

But, on a less sarcastic note... I agree that improving our base, [crit] and minimum damage so that a level 70 MA could kill an Anun, is a good point. But read the Anarchy description of the MA, we are supposed to be good healers, second only to the doc, but at higher levels, while the weapons class keep right on doing great normal damage and 5k crits, and we do 115,115,115,115..... yeah we need our damage fixed. If MAs do pitiful damage, how can we solo at higher levels... we can't ATM. MAs are also suppose "to be the bane of the nano classes, able to interupt their nanos" while they are casting them. My level 81 MA has interupted nanos twice. If we could interupt, we may last longer in battles too.

Takuan is spot on!
Yeah the MA is not where it needs to be, seems the MA is just some DoT fighter. You see why we need faster heals, we do low damage, and a Vector shotgun in the hands of a level 50 Trader can out crit a level 99 MA, and almost as much as the dimach. Only dimach is timed for like 30 min or so, but anyone with a Vector can crit up to three times in one battle.

Once again, don't nerf others, just bring the rest of us up to par. The doc needs to be fixed, pumped up to eclipse the Trader in heals. The Trader's description mentions nothing about being a great healer, when they are the best at higher levels right now.

Fizzel, keep your heal pet as it is, I do not say nerf it.

Ok, appologies to JohnMclain, if I took your statement out of context. But the unbreakable root idea looks like an exploitable nano, one in which the melee guy will always die. But you are correct, they should last more then one shot, I wonder if the nano resist checks are even made to reflect the skill points of the character.

As far as teaming and soloing comparisons go, I agree with EvilGlitch in that as far as teaming goes, it should not change the game to the point that a solo guy has an incredibly hard time, and is forced to always team because to solo is to have no fun at all.

Team hunt have always been for experiance, and missions were for credits.

I would like to see soloing missions as fun and worth the time and effort. I would also love to see team missions that allow me and my friends and or guildmates to have some fun and get some great loots. I saw a team mission actually work once, everyone in the team that was in the same area automatically got a key. But that was like two months ago. A mission token for all members of the team seems like a good idea to me.

Maybe team missions should have no credit reward at all, but give all members a token as a reward. There is a possible exploit, where you can do a mission with two friends and then just before you complete the mission you recruit three others, and everyone gets a token. So, there should be some way to ensure this does not happen. Maybe a percentage chance to get a token based on how long you were teamed with the person that actually got the mission. But I see a problem with this idea too, what happens if you all get booted out of the mission, or someone has memory issues and has to relog, just before mission complete, then the poor guy may not get a token with the rest?? In a perfect world, I'd really like to see everyone in my team get a token, if they did the mission with me..

I like the idea of an high level mob comes to the rescue, so to speak, and spawns in an area to protect his buddies, this sounds cool.

But I would really, really like to see the hunting grounds returned to us and the spawn rates of some slower places increased. In Clan held areas there are no hunting grounds to speak of, for characters above level 30. I know I said this earlier, but there are none in Athen, Athen shire or Tir, and one team can take care of all Aegean, Greater Tir County, and Avalon (the Cyborg camp is a campping area, not a hunt spot).

You cannot improve team hunts.......... if there is no where to hunt!

[XtroXtreme]

If you want team mission, then make them pay ALL players in team as well as token to all in mission.

But don´t forget solo ability. I don´t have time all sessions to get a group.

[_______________Kyana]

I didn't read this entire post so I hope I don't cover something that somebody already has. But, I felt the need to comment on the MA vs DOC, etc regarding heals. Well, as a MA, it would be nice to have a better heal.......but what about the damage my fists and feet should be doing??????

I'm way more concerned about the damage stagnating, then the ability to heal more through nanos. Sure, it would be nice (don't get me wrong here). But, overall, MA's need a big offensive damage change that needs to happen soon. I'm starting to hit for less and same-color mobs are getting harder and harder as I'm leveling (*very concerned about the future and a higher level MA's damage dealt to a mob*).

Please fix the damage a MA can deal before spending too much time on heal spells for dead MAs.

Thanks!

Kyana

[Ferret]

I have little to complain about as a lvl 62MP.

The only comment I have on the post is regarding 'Current down time', I would not like things changed but its just an observation - I am normally the one in the group pushing the pace, if I want to use the best pets I need to buff like crazy, therefore I try to get as much kills in as I can before I become a nano mage firework show.

Like I said I don't want it changed for the MP, we are just fine. Although I did team with a Doc that could outdamage my pets (maybe 30lvls above me) with his shotgun.... but I guess I have a nice looking shield.

Have Fun all!

[BGumble]

Somewhere either in the first article or the second article the concept of keeping professions unique was touched on, and its a very good idea.

In the second article giving crowd control to adventurers was discussed, surely that just waters down the uniqueness of 'crats and adds to the already large list of people who have some form of crowd control?

Adventurers certainly need something, I've played to level 100 and I couldnt say what makes Adventurers unique but whatever it is, just giving someone else crowd control isn't really the answer, unless it's the answer to their particular problems which I doubt. From what I've seem most adventurers seem to have weapon problems - swords (no suitable buffs), pistols (rubbish) etc.

Pretty good article on the whole though.

[___________Zeroshift]

So... They talk to an agent on the test server that thinks he is good and they call it a day! WTF!

GOD DAMNIT WHY CANT YOU GUYS GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEADS WHAT WE WANT!

We don't WANT to be able to sneak hard missions easier damnit!

What we WANT is some predictability and reliablity to the sneaking skill!

Right now it is totally f#$cking random.

Some missions I can't get past the first yellow I encounter. I try the mission ten times and still never get it.

Other times I can sneak a full mission of reds with no problem.

what we want is to feel that our sneaking skill involves more than a random toss of the dice.

Right now sneaking is FRUSTRATING because we can't gauge what is safe to sneak by from expierence.

Just like many classes can learn what level of creatures to take on and what to avoid with experience... We too, the agent, want our concealment to have some reliablity as to what can be sneaked by.

To summerize: Fixing sneak does not mean making it 100% chance of sneaking a hard misions.
Fixing sneak means getting rid of the dice and making our skill level mean something.

[____________Greystar]

After reading this "From the beginning we have tried to improve the Bureaucrat, the Fixer, the Agent and others." and the rambling about agents who can sneak ql200 missions already, have 10k aimed shot already and can buff anything from any profession already, and who obviously needs a fix more than Fixers (not), I kinda stopped reading the hogwash in there after that.

So Fixers are fixed already and Cosmik lied when he said that wasn't the fix, thanks for holding true on the tradition of lying to your customers.

[Cheetra]

In a nut shell, make the Transfer programs that are in game now, more usable, and expend the program line.

The ability to transfer meaningfull amounts of health and nano for the level would be a very usefull: IE ~500 around level 100, ~1000 by lvl 150 +, possibly going as high as 2000 by lvl 180.

This program line isn't used because as it stands it never reaches usable levels to affect team play, 100 health by level 80 ish is so little it's not even worth considering using the program, and because half of the equation is useless even the potentially useful transfer nano line is ignored.

One of the things stated about the MA profession at character creation is their ability to shift energy, but with a max of 100, it's not much of an ability.

Give use a reason to get a mat met skill, improve these programs. It side steps the problem with the long reuse timers on our heals because we can shift around health being gotten from our heals and from treatment packs, or nano packs. Putting our health and nano where it best serves the group, be that a Doc that's running low on juice, or an enforcer that the doc just isnt' keeping up with the damage on.

Please consider this as an option.

[Cheetra]

What I would Like to see:

A)
Make Ellusive Target, Fleet Foot AND Reduce Inertia STACK ( with each other, but not with other evade programs, gives a reason to keep MA's around beyond crit buffs ). Limbo Mastery should of course retain it's ability to stack with all of them. the Blanace here is this is a TON of ncu space to run all 3.

OR

B)
Self only Evade buffs that effect Duck, Dodge, Evade and
*possibly* nano resist ( i'm not going to be a die hard fan of adding nano resist into our lines because they aren't physical in nature, it'd be a nice beny to be sure ). Along these lines but gaining a new one with the same frequency as Agents gain theirs Ruse's

1) Grass in the Wind ql 40
Ncu Cost: 13
Sense Imp:220
Psy Mod: 220
Evade: +100
Dodge: +100
Duck: +100
Nano Resist: +50
Parry: +50

only controlable by Martial Artists. ( Just like our fists, you could use it on another MA, but not on any other profession )

2) Palm in the Hurricane ql 96
Ncu Cost: 30
Sense Imp: 480
Psy Mod: 480
Evade: +200
Dodge: +200
Duck: +200
Nano Resist: +100
Parry: +100

Only controlable my Martial Artists ( Just like our fists, you could use it on another MA, but not on any other profession )



BOTH should stack with Limbo Mastery, and Ellusive Target/ Fleet Foot/ Reduced Inertia under the currenty stacking rules for them.

[____________Arterous]

I am really against giving the secondary healers better heals. This will take away from the usefulnes of the doctor..

Look at it this way, if and when MA's get thier "loving" and they get better heals, why would anyone want a doctor?? MAs will do more damage and have the ability to heal.

A need in damage output would server both the adv and MA better. IMHO.

Regards,

Arterous

[__________Kaisersoze]

I think some tuning on the minimum heal scores need a bit of attention. As for MA's, why don't they get some sort of HoT called MEDITATION? When you don't move or sit down, u heal and get nano better. That would be nice.

For the shields of ADV's, why can't they absorb that for EVERY attack? Absorbing 100ish (and that's high) damage at lvl 65 for only once is quite pointless. What about absorbing that for each new round or attack? And raise the deflection damage will ya? like fifty percent of what the shield absorbs or something.

[Gene13]

Originally posted by Arterous
I am really against giving the secondary healers better heals. This will take away from the usefulnes of the doctor..
Look at it this way, if and when MA's get thier "loving" and they get better heals, why would anyone want a doctor?? MAs will do more damage and have the ability to heal.

If I'm doing missions with a team of 2 or 3, yes I would probably rather go with a MA than a doc. But when in a full team, or in the open I want a doc. And I want a doc wielding a pillow and a leet, not a wrangled strap-on... Erm... I mean Vektor ND.
It just makes me nervous.

/G13

[_______________Odaen]

Let me take sneaking as an example: We have found that some people were able to sneak level 200 missions at level 112(!). We found that others had difficulties sneaking missions at lower levels than themselves, even if they had 2k in Sneak(!). We also found that even though they could sneak, many Agents preferred to sneak as far as they could, and when discovered, put on a Soldier Reflect Shield and blitzed the rest.

Let me start with saying that there was no explanation of why someone with 2k in conceal could not sneak a lower ql mission. This problem is the basis of the conceal bug and shows that the developers themselves don't really understand how conceal is implemented. Also the AMS/DMS description does not explain why a high concealer cannot sneak a mission when the perception skill is very low:

Going back to sneaking: Think of your Sneak skill as the DMS of the chest. Think of the Perception skill of the monster as the AMS. Once every 10 seconds or so, a dice is rolled. Even though the Perception skill of a level 200 is around 800 and you have 2k in Sneak, there is still a 20% or so chance of it detecting you. If you "linger" you will be detected!

No explanation here of why an NPC with 300 in perception is more likely to detect you than an NPC with 800 in perception. This is why conceal is currently broken.

I don't agree that agents should be satisfied simply because they can sneak higher level missions. I like to sneak missions to get nano rewards I can actually use. Having to make uber mp pets just to complete a mission that at my level is not acceptable. Even with a demon and belamorte I have a hard time completing a level 150 mission believe it or not. I am level 142. Now if I can sneak a level 200 mission why shouldn't I be able to sneak a 150 mission? I have walked into missions at that level where the mobs see me as easily as if I wasn't sneaking at all. I am goin to pass some long needed information here to the agent community. This is the conceal required to sneak various level missions. Conceal is broken currently in a way that causes sneak to fail if it is too high or too low for the level of a mob. Here's some guidelines:
Mission level Conceal Mob type
around 140-155 900 Seasoned
around 155-170 1100 Skilled/Toughs
around 170-185 1500 Masters/some vets
around 185-205 1700 Vets/Aces

Now I'm sure you have all seen missions with mixed mobs, such as Seasoned and Vets. Well these are nearly impossible to sneak because if you conceal is higher than 1100 there is an extremely good chance that you will be seen by the Seasoned NPCs. If a mission has Skilled and Vets then it really isn't feasible to equip you cloaker just to sneak by vets then take it off when going by a skilled. This can't be done because equiping a cloaker takes you out of sneak.

Agents need to be able to sneak missions close to there level in order to get nano rewards that can only be found in missions. It is not acceptable to say agents should be happy because a level 112 can sneak a ql 200 mission. I cannot get a group to help me sneak a ql 150 mission because the experience is too low. No one would want to do a ql 150 mission with me. I do not want to play an agent that can only do ql 200 missions to sell items so that I can buy nanos of lower ql. I am not a salesman nor ever will be. I find everything I need and don't have patience or skill to be a seller and buyer of items.

As for Aimed shot, since conceal is broken chances our you will not be able to use Aimed Shot since the mob will be aware of you. When I am able to use aimed shot I do about 1100 pts dmg with a ranee (ql 188) lovemaker. Now a normal decent shot does 600-800 pts dmg so should I be happy with 1100 pts dmg. Not really. It kinda doesn't make sense either because often I see a crit follow the aimed shot and my crit does 2500 pts dmg. Shouldn't I have a higher chance of getting a critical hit using aimed shot?

If aimed shot was valuable then I would expect teams to want an agent to pull using aimed shot. I have never seen this once since about 12.6. The fact that groups don't think pulling with aimed shot is worth beans says something about the state of Aimed Shot. Part of the reason Agents can't solo even with MP pets is because of the fact that Aimed Shot doesn't do enough damage to hurt a mob with 20k hp.

As for the suggested changes for mob dynamics in the way agro is done or NPCs ask for help. I don't think it is wise at all to modify current mob behavior until you can fix the current problems with NPC's. Such as chain casting, uber nano and uber hitpoints. I once read that NPC's having uber hitpoints was a bug and not intentional. Somehow this bug has been around so long that it is accepted that a green mob will have about 10 times the hitpoints that you do. Now with the new bug being chain casting and uber nano, the old bug is forgotten. When the next patch comes out to introduce a new bug and the old bug isn't fixed, then it will be accepted. This is the problem with introducing new features (that have bugs) before fixing bugs introduced in the last patch. Bugs are never addressed this way, people get fed up and reasonable feel that bugs will never be addressed. When this happens people set a timeframe for bugs to be addressed and quit if not addressed within a reasonable amount of time. I've seen this over and over again. So please address existing bugs instead of just moving on to some new functional change that will introduce another bug. One example is the fact that the bug that gets you stuck in a yalm even when unequiping it (when its red without zoning) hasn't been fixed yet. Is it really that hard to fix that bug that was introduced with the yalm zoning change? Conceal has been broken for a very long time now and should have been fixed by now.

A new bug was introduced recently that makes stun no longer wipe the hate list. I was so looking forward to using Death's Gaze when sneak was broken. Now its just an agro enhancer.

Odaen 141 Agent
Odean 30 Trader (retired)

[Teknolord]

I know its olympics and stuff, but are Funcom trying to set records in bashing? By bashing i mean totally stepping on, humiliating, deceive and disapppoint fixers...

FIX THE FIXERS! no more yelding this matter!