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Thread: Soloing and Teaming (the conclusions)

  1. #21
    We've been hearing this kind of crap for months now. But it never gets any better. And why the hell are the Agents up for a fix before Adventurers and Fixers? Agents don't have any problems. They're just mad because they were the first uber class, and Funcom shoved the nerf stick up their ass. Just make the FP line of nanos have a slightly less penalty so that it's actually useful in combat. Other than that, they do good damage. The conceal and AS thing needs be fixed for all the classes, so it shouldn't be considered an "Agent" fix.

  2. #22

    Wow, Im impressed

    Im impressed, it seems like the guys and gals? in the AO team hit some of the major points we players want added or changed. Gaute said they will look at all professions and do them one by one, but I think Funcom should tell us, the players and community, what profession is up for review, so then everyone who plays that profession can speak up. I know Gaute said the MA was next, but whens next, perhaps an 'estimated' patch number would help.

    I like the idea of the monsters having a short term collective memory, but Funcom, you need to add more, not just 1 or 2, but more (especially after lvl 100) hunting places.

    Keep up the good work!

  3. #23

    Great communication finally

    One thing I wanted to comment in is how we mission for loot, and team for exp.

    It seems to me that if monsters dropped better loot outside of missions, we would team more and not just run missions when we need gear.

    And these camps need to be spread out across Rubi-Ka: as was mentioned above, everyone follows the same pattern of hunting, going from one popular spot to the next.

    And yet the world you have created is so huge and beautiful. I am always amazed how awesome the Desert of Lost People in Broken Shores is. But why would I ever want to go there unless I was running a mission or sightseeing? If there was a unique camp there where Elite Armor drops, people would spread out more.

    Don't do an EQ and make a static spawn drop a guaranteed item, but make a zone have an increased chance to drop desired certain items.

    You have begun this with the Carbonrich rock fields in BS and 4 holes: this is a great trend and I applaud you for it.

  4. #24

    Re: Re: Hunting Grounds

    Originally posted by Dropcid
    As for high level hunting... Milky way, broken shores, belial, longest road, PW, EFP, etc. But wait, you say... that's more risk than just doing missions all day next to a save term... tough crap. Try playing the game instead of mindlessly doing missions over and over again.

    Dropcid = Level 62, this is his highest level character. He has no idea what 100+ is like. Please disreguard is uninformed ramblings.

    Now I would also like to say, WTF? Martial Artists, Agent, THEN Adventurers.....

    I would like to direct you to the link of my guild First Order, the Largest AO guild in the game, PERIOD!

    Everyone is playing a MA, Agent, Enforcer, and Soldier. Why??? They are by far the least broken, best classes in the whole game.

    See the little bars down there, the professions very few people are playing. THOSE are the ones you need to focus one. THOSE are the broken professions that time forgot.

    Adventurers, Fixers, and Bureaucrats <---- Needs fixing NOW!

    And I like the idea about monsters remembering and hating you. Only thing I don't like, is that they will eventually start giving you more XP. This just gives people and even BIGGER reason to camp Mobs... Try this on for size: The longer you camp MOBS, the more "skillful" you are at killing this paticular mob, and the LESS experience you start to get. This will give you a reason to leave a popular spawn in search of better XP and throw some variety into the mix....
    Veteran Homer "Detonate" McDuff - My Equipment
    -= First Order =-

    First Order is one of the largest and most powerful Omni-Tek Departments located on Rubi-Ka 1. If you are a dedicated Omni-Tek employee looking for superior opportunities within the company, check out and apply for a position today!
    First Order is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate based on Breed, Level, or Profession.


  5. #25

    Short term/Hive Memory

    Hello all

    After reading this article, I must admit that I'm impressed. I like what the Funcom folks are doing and what they have planned. Granted, there is still a lot of work to do, but this is the path to something really good.

    Anywho, the idea of the short-term-family-memory (hive mind) is an excellent one. It allows the player to reap better than normal rewards for hunting a particular species WHILE at the same time increasing the risk involved.

    This allows a player to start off soloing a type of monster, gaining the rewards (and penelties) of hunting a certain species. If the character continues to hunt a particular species to the point that every monster from that family tries to take him out, the player has 3 choices...1) Continue soloing and risk being placed in a situation where he may be the object of one HUGE train. 2) Move on to a different area where the chances of encountering that "family" of monsters is reduced. He then just have to wait until the "hive mind" cools off, and he can go back again. 3) Get some folks together, create a team, and start chain blasting the baddies. In this case the Team would "benefit" from the individuals hate level with that species of monster. In any case, the rewards would be increased with each kill....and so do the risks.

    It's all about choices, and of course having fun with those choices.
    I hope this idea comes to pass.

    Later all

  6. #26
    You stated:
    >A question raised is whether the two secondary healing professions can be of any use?
    > I am thinking of the Adventurer and the Martial Artist.

    I use MA healing nanos with good results in most teams. But sometimes its not enough unless we are two or more healers (like 2 MAs).
    Mabye you could make it a bit better - just a little tiny bit (like reducing the recharge wait of the Ma's heal nanos, so I can cast one faster after another and so forth. Becuause not being able to cast the nanos fast enough is mostly what gets the puller or tank killed).

    I like the idear of Monster Hate, but why not let it linger for 2 days.

    You asked:
    >What do you think about having a thread focused on the profession before we start giving it lovin', so that we know we focus on what people want?
    > Does that sound ok?


  7. #27


    Just a small addition:

    If it were up to me, I'd gladly swap places with Fixers in the "to fix" line, as crats are very nice right now and just need small tweaks (like the ones in the article) to be an ok profession. Some more diversty would be nice, but I guess that will come in the second round of fixing + with new content.

    Btw, I'm speaking for level 1-100 here, I don't know how crats are after that but as I can kill level 125+ mobs solo I don't see a drastic loss of solo ability anytime soon..

    Anyway, the number of people playing a profession can't be used as evidence that the profession is broken..crats are fine and if you check the total stats for RK1 traders are just below crats as the least played profession. Are traders gimped? doesn't really matters who comes first, as long as the most "gimped" professions receive nice upgrades soon.
    Vincent Stritzke
    Omni-Tek Rubi-Ka

  8. #28

    Cool Good article, more please!

    But I'd agree with most people, give fixers a bit 'o love (and maybe nts just a bit?). You don't need to wait for a specific 'fix fixer' patch, just add a bit each patch, a tweak here, a fix there.

    Also, can you make more weapon types viable? As an enforcer it seems to be a choice between dual rider execs and the hammer/beam, most else is just too weak. My suggestion here is for the faster weapons to (in general) have better minimum damage than they currently do, so, even against well armoured opponents, you do *roughly* simillar damage vs time. Every weapon should have benefits and drawbacks, maybe some crit more often but door poor damage otherwise, or some give other benefits such as increasing evades and the like.

    keep up the good work though, and keep up the information flow, well informed players are less likely to be angry players :-)

  9. #29

    Re: Good article, more please!

    Originally posted by Darkbane
    Every weapon should have benefits and drawbacks, maybe some crit more often but door poor damage otherwise, or some give other benefits such as increasing evades and the like.
    Hey yeah!!! That's a great idea, and makes sense to boot! The smaller faster weapons should give you an evade boost, since you are more mobile while carrying the smaller lighter weapons!!!

    I might actually switch from Rider's to Merchent's if they gave an evade bonus, and had a higher minimum damage!! Or better crit or something...

    Right now as far as Melee goes, the only 'real' choices are Riders, Beam, or Hammer... Anything else, and you are dead. (Rider's being the worst of the 3 )
    Veteran Homer "Detonate" McDuff - My Equipment
    -= First Order =-

    First Order is one of the largest and most powerful Omni-Tek Departments located on Rubi-Ka 1. If you are a dedicated Omni-Tek employee looking for superior opportunities within the company, check out and apply for a position today!
    First Order is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate based on Breed, Level, or Profession.


  10. #30
    Stop people from breaking Snares and Roots in battle by attacking themselves with a nano. This is a controversial point, I know, but roots are a moot point when you can use "Thrown Weapons Inexperience" to break it. We will do this when we have other, more focused means, of breaking the nanos.

    pulled from gautes post:

    see we are supposed to have an ability to break roots.
    so no casting a hostile nano on yourself is not an exploit to break roots.

    And funcom tell your arks and gms to stop spreading such lies that breaking roots is an exploit.

  11. #31
    A truely awsome article!!!

    A big yes please to everything in there!!

    I think you have chosen the right classes and in the right order to fix!

    With regards on 13.6/13.7 NPC casting problem.... I liked it (ok not 13.6)
    It make it much more fun and relistic, of course a NT NPC should use his nanos not his gun!!!!
    The same for the pet NPC, they should have pets.
    And why doesn't the Enf NPCs use Mongo?

    Lots of stuff like that.... it will require a retune of mob hp though
    But it will make fights lot more diverse then today. And more like PvP (not quite, no silly grudges)

    Once again!! you have all the right ideas!!!
    Dhur the Ninja Pirate NT!

  12. #32

    my .02 creds

    OK, let me start by saying that if every post from Funcom were this detailed, you would hear alot fewer gripes about the players not getting the info. We can live without promises, as long as we know SOMETHING about what's going on.

    I think everyone will agree, please, PLEASE take a closer look at the way ALL skill checks are handled against lower level mobs, especialy in the grey range.... I think most players would agree we see them do too much damage, and resist too many nano's for something that gives us only 1xp... isn't that supposed to be because they're NOT supposed to be a challenge?

    And definetly let us know what's being considered for class fixes... a dedicated thread for each would be nice, how about just a sticky thread in the forums for each class? Alot of good info there...

    I have a 53 Advent, a 23 NT, and a teen-ish fixer... so I'm getting different views on the game. Please give the fixers some real help, even some decent choices for SMG's would go a long way, or something useful to use all those green trade skills on.

    My Advent is still trying to use pistols, because it's just too much to go back and re-do everything. Give us some real choices with pistols, bring back a version of the FA that's balanced with reasonable skill req's, instead of the original, too-easy-to-use ones.

    Also look at how many weapons have 3, 4 or even 5 different skill req's. I've seen some pistol class weapons that have stats worth looking at, except they have skill req's such as "aimed shot", "SMG" or even "assault rifle".... which basicly makes them more than useless to me. We barely get enough IP to bring up the basic skills we need, to dump some into these extra skills that we use for one weapon, which we may or may not find a replacement for when we're looking for the next QL up.

    ranting, wandering topics, must stop

  13. #33
    "..........The short-term-family-memory is making the family have some sort of "collective-hive-memory" which means that normal, non-aggressive monsters might become "attack on sight" if you slaughter their family too long. This is not a faction system! This is a short-term effect. Just camping or zoning won't clear that collective hate, but swapping targets will. It will evaporate with time, like dew from the morning sun. If you come back the day after killing hundreds of Rhino-Men in Rhino-Man Valley in Newland, they will once again ignore you and go about their business. If you run into the Valley, after "camping" them outside for 40 minutes, you will be attacked on sight.

    This will require you to gain more skill, use tactics, and hopefully induce more fun. What I want to do is to have the monsters that become aggressive against you give you more XP. The more they hate, the more they yield! This should sort of "up the stakes", and not be considered a "nerf". Tell me what you think! If the response is sort of good, we shall tell you when we put this on the test servers. .........."

    Very cool idea indeed.... I love it, especially with the enhanced XP, but like someone above mentioned, keep the distance to a respectable level... don't need multi-zone problems, or maybe to only a specific team...?

    Good article, we need more...

  14. #34

    Thumbs up Teaming Part 2

    First, thank you for a positive article with lots of great ideas. Just wanted to make a few comments on some of the items, but overall it gets a big "Wooot!" from me. All in all most of it sounds good and I hope it gets implemented ASAP. I just have a few general questions about some of your proposals.

    >To make roots become somewhat of long range combat debuffs. >This change will not affect people or pets in PvP! Rooting is >powerful enough as it is in PvP!) It only means rooting a >monster will reduce its ability to hit you in normal PvM. This
    >The higher level the root, the more effective the Initiative Debuff.

    When you say Iniative debuff, do you mean it's Ranged/Melee/Physical Stat is being reduced so it gets fewer hits in than it normally would? If so, Excellent!

    >To split auto-return fire from a high Agg/Def setting. Right now, > you are attacked, you will auto-return fire when your Aggdef >setting is above 0. This is a problem for all crowd-controllers, as >they will hit the opponent just after making them sleep, and >thus breaking the nano. The auto-return fire will be an option >setting to control as you wish. You will then have to hit "attack".

    Does this mean I could set my slider to "Full Agg", hit a creature with my Mez program and not auto attack because there is some option somewhere [a checkbox?] that says Auto-attack Yes/No?
    If so that sounds good.

    >Give the Adventurer some crowd control nanos. I'm not sure >exactly what these will be, but we shall see during >the "Adventurer Lovin' Patch" coming up. (This was the only >Profession people seemed to feel missed crowd-control.)


    >There are still some professions that we feel need improvement. >We shall do so, hopefully surprising you in the process. A >question raised is whether the two secondary healing >professions can be of any use? I am thinking of the Adventurer >and the Martial Artist.

    Strictly my opinion as an Adventurer. When solo'ing a mission my self heals are critical. When combined with my decent first aid skill, while I feel my heals need to be a tad faster, I'm fairly happy with them. I also have a Martial Artist, the only problem with those heals solo is the long recharge I find to be a problem.

    Now when in a team setting as an Adv. or MA...

    The problem is: Your team's target is always stronger than the typical 45-55% missions we run solo, not to mention the likelyhood of "adds" occuring.

    So I would propose concentrate on speeding up the Adv and MA "Team Heal" line of Nanos and beef up the strength of those heals somewhat. Being able to heal our team mates faster
    and a little better will make us much better "medics" [while still being secondary to Docs].

    >We are discussing something we call "Dyna-camps". That is >something like a spread of more focused camps around the >world, where content change and adapt to the players around >it, a bit like outdoor-auto-content, changing the playfield.

    Intriguing, could you elaborate or give an example, I'd like to hear more on this.

    >This will require you to gain more skill, use tactics, and hopefully >induce more fun. What I want to do is to have the monsters >that become aggressive against you give you more XP. The >more they hate, the more they yield! This should sort of "up the >stakes", and not be considered a "nerf". Tell me what you think! >If the response is sort of good, we shall tell you when we put >this on the test servers.

    I think this is worth testing out. I think what everyone will want to avoid is the "Medusa" senario that everyone says is "nerfed" and unplayable now because of their sheer numbers. Could you give us some examples; for instance in NW Mutant, if you kill a few "Eyes" but nothing else, eventually all the "Eyes" will aggro on sight to your team because collectively they are aware of what you have done and built up a hate. But now instead of being worth 1.5k, they might become worth 2.5k because of their hate/aggro status? If so, I think this sounds good on paper but really need to see it in practice before passing judgement. How wide of an area would this encompass? It could get out of control if too wide an area. And how is any of this different than attacking an Eye and having the one 10 meters away aggro because the target has "called for help".??

    >What do you think about having a thread focused on the >profession before we start giving it lovin', so that we know we >focus on what people want? Does that sound ok?

    Umm, this is a clear case of communication gap? Does not almost every profession forum have a clear top 10 list with hundreds of contributions of players requesting how to best "fix" and balance their profession?? Why would we need yet another one? Any profession forum that does NOT have a top 10 should get one right away, all the answers you need Gaute are right there and have been for weeks [if not months]. The poor fixers have posted hundreds of suggestions all over the place, this sounds more like a stalling tactic [whether you meant it that way or not].

    Looking forward to all these changes and additions, it will help AO alot I believe.


    Last edited by Avatarius; Feb 8th, 2002 at 20:49:46.

  15. #35
    First of all lemme say Thumbs up on the article, I feel like we're less in the dark now, very informative and to the point.

    Now, the other part please, for the love of god, fix us Fixers. I feel like alot of the other Fixers do, we don't want to be uber, just useful in a team and able to solo mission w/o blitzing them. I'd like to slow down and see what's in those chests, maybe it's the yalm I've been waiting for

  16. #36
    I play an ADV and am happy for any attention Funcom will give us, but I have to say the last patch made our lives easier in regards to being able to use our morphs (grinning hunter and playful cub) in the missions. That was one little thing, but it meant a lot to this ADV. Maybe Funcom could implement partial fixes for the classes that need help with each patch, for instance the ADV multiwield buff that has been talked nano....not as much dev time, would liven things up.

    I would disagree with your priorities in regards to agents, as they still seem to be a viable class, they don't rule like they used to but are still a strong class overall.

    Morelian, lvl 111 ADV

  17. #37
    Still waiting on Fixer clarification.

    /me Has Word open, writting review for Wonders how it will go.

  18. #38

    Question On the Adventurers.

    I like the ideas that FunCom has to offer. THe hive-memory option sounds quite intruiging. As someone playing an adventurer, however, a couple of comments.

    The damage shields are nice, but it says it raises AC. WHere? I don't see it anywhere when I buff it. And adventurers have no reflection fields of any type, which i'd like to see. It would help us live a bit longer, I think.

    As for class-specific loot types, perhaps some sort of Chameleon Armor or something for the adventurer? Something that would raise their ability to explore Rubi Ka a little more effectively (raising Perception and Conceal a little? Hmmm...).

    Plus I get chided occasionally for my limited damage-dealing abilities or attack nano's. Anything that can be done for this? We have no damage-improving buffs except the general one. If any of these could be addressed, it would make for far better play, I believe.
    Give me liberty, or give me a bronto-burger (or kill me)!

    Whaddevah," We will pillage your women and sodomize your towns!" Corny"The wise-cracking slayer of many!"
    Yahmuddah "Yeah, yours! Whatchagonnadoooo?

  19. #39


    let me start off by saying, Nice article. I like hearing what exactly goes on in the "devs" team work space. I like how u explained a bit about how treasure chests work and the xp u gain is like the skill it is. ~ very useful and interesting points.

    Ideas: Upping Adv heals and ma heals sure is a good idea. And yes that is something that i would like to see, but it is nothing that will make me log on with my retired adv for 1 month and start playing with him again. Adv's need much more, and i don't have a ma of my own, but i hear they don't care too much about there heals, but more about their minimum damage.

    no one can make an effective damage shield like the Adventurer etc.

    - its nice to know you have a sense of humour. These damage shields aren't so great. They absorb stupid things, and the reflect isn't that much greater than a enforcers. And the enforcers damage shield gives hp too. U may want to refraise that.

    Anyways, i don't want to flame your article. You did a very good job. Im not actually flaming you or anyone in specific in the dev team. What i am doing is explaining how i feel as a long-term paying customer, having 6 different characters i think i know how the mechanics of the game.

    What i feel right now is the "flaw" in this game is the unbalance in professions. YES i agree, now is the time to start looking into them and actually opening up a spreadsheet and seeing their differences.


    Place a MP on one side and a ADV on the other:

    MP :
    Hostile nanos ~ including nanoshutdown
    3 pets ~ one that has non stop healing
    flying ability at a very low level ~ quatum wings
    masterys, infuses, mochams
    can equip weapons, not high level ones, but with wraggles it sure helps
    evade buffs
    Lots of extra gear to help up stats ~ nelubs coat, shields
    ** very capable of soloing while eating your bag of doritos watching the football game
    ( i also have a MP, and "I" and i know even a lot of MPS feel they are overpowered. )

    no hostile nanos
    heals ~ aren't great, with minumin heals being too low when u need em
    flying ~ u cant fly till around level 130ish and the req's are insane by then u have a yalm before the reet flying form
    ac buff, reflection buff ~ aren't that great, they do the work, but nobody wants them partially cause u don't even notice they are on when your figthing. ( nobody wants our buffs)
    morphs ~ only unique thing, yet broken and not so useful
    NO extra gear to help stats ( for the adv. Yes we can wear the nelub but we don't cast hostile nanos, not worth it for us)
    ** solo = impossible.

    ok thats a MP with a ADV. maybe a bad comparison cause Mp's are the gods of AO atm, and ADV's are one of the lowest. But even then, i use to think enforcers was a good average class. But even now they are descending. Seeing atrox mps with beams, its like a enforcer just the enforcer doesn't have hostile nanos and pets. Wheres the enforcers uniqueness??

    i think professions are all just messed up. MPS, engineers, not 100% sure of burecrats, are doing just fine. I think next should be advs, mas, fixers, ( next is tie with nts, agents and enforcers ).

    thats my opinion. plz don't flame me with your opinions. Just post yours. don't flame mine thanks.

    Breaku level 110 apprentice enf
    cubex level 83 rookie adv ( retired )
    einstin3 level 50 doc ( deleted )
    kubex level 11 freshamn trader
    kiwee level 5 Mp ( re-rolled, messed up ips )
    kiwee level 5 nt ( rk2 )

  20. #40
    Snares/Roots/Mez Feedback Cont...

    Gaute, thanks for writing this article. Please forgive crin and the other angry fixers for losing focus. We have been "taking it" for quite a while and are very frustrated. On to the feedback.

    SNARES: You know how the currently work. Here is how they would have to work in order to be useful. They can't break on the first shot. Whats the point of having 20 minute durations when the average snare I (used to) cast lasts approximately 1s IF I'm lucky Just make them last a (greatly reduced) amount of time.

    Here are my exact recommendations:
    1) Take area effect snares away from the Fixer. These changes would really take away from the Bureaucrats domain.
    2) Make snares last from 3s in the beginning to about 20s at high lvls. Make them unbreakable.

    * If you're worried about kiting, well, frankly there are a lot of other problems in the game you have to worry about. Regardless, so many mobs have a ranged attack and melee range is so huge (ESP in missions)
    * By taking area effect snares away from Fixer you would make potential kiting MUCH more difficult when the mob calls for help.
    * My main character is a Fixer, let me tell you I'd MUCH rather have one worthwhile snare line (single target) than two useless snare lines like we have right now.

    ROOTS: Currently... roots are not that useful. After reading your examination of them and seeing as how I play multiple professions with roots I'm not that excited. Here is why...

    1) Doc init debuffs break so fast none of them bother with them.
    2) If I have a melee mob rooted, why do I care what his inits are?
    3) Whats the point in rooting a ranged mob? Now his inits are debuffed? Why not just give me an additional nano line then?

    * I know in beta Fixers were "UBERLEET" because they could root and shoot anything. The real problem here is that Fixers shouldn't be able to land root on a sandworm at level 50. That is a nano resist issue.
    * Right now there is NO reason to upgrade your roots.
    * All roots currently are is a poor mans mez.
    * Raise the resist on Trader area root to like 140%

    How to fix roots:
    1) Change the roots so that higher level roots allow more hits before its broken. Instead of breaking root instantly... make a successful hit take 5s off the time the root lasts. Special attacks and crits take 10s off the time. This gives players a reason to upgrade them - and makes them more effective as a whole.
    2) Raise the nano resist on them. You can't have people doing this to deep reds. I'd recommend 125% for Fixers and 115% for Agents. Leave bureaucrats as they are, they aren't rooting and shooting anything anyways.

    MEZZES: Currently the only worthwhile crowd control ability. The problem is they work the worst when you need them the most. For example, why take a Bureaucrat along on your team when hunting Cyborgs in Mort? He can mez adds right? That is all he is really good for besides a subpar pet. Well ok, problem is, he can't do his job that well. His mezzes aren't reliable and break. He is the onlly member of the team unable to fulfill his duty vs higher lvl mobs that teams hunt. The soldier still hits, the doc still heals. I can't tell you how many times I've been on teams hunting and we've died because my Bureaucrat couldnt do his job because the lvl of the stuff we were hunting was too high.

    So you know, reasonable targets for a strong team of L50s might be central avalon Vulture Feuders and Alpha Ninjas. My group died there the other night because we got an add that although I "successfully executed" mez on, it didnt take effect and the mob killed the whole group. Wow. Glad they took me along to prevent that EXACT thing. It's my Bureaucrats sole reason for existing - to prevent my groups death from adds - yet he can't do his part against the level of stuff that groups will hunt.

    Mez fixes:
    1) Lower the resists of the Bureaucrat line to 80% for single target and 100% for area effect. This is THE most important ability for a grouping crat and when you can't do it, it sucks.
    2) When a mez lands, it sticks. No more of this mob ignoring mez, mob breaking out of mez in 2s.
    3) Give Bureaucrats an area effect mez BEFORE level 100. Start giving them one around level 50.


    PS - Why not give a first aid item that removes all negative effects from your NCU but locks the skill just like a heal? It would be great for when the fight is over and you're dotted/snared/rooted/whatever.

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