Pricing for tradeskills

**______________Nalima** · Aug 14th, 2003, 16:43:43

Great compilation elbo, you got any homepage where the most recent prices are?

**Blutfrau** · Aug 20th, 2003, 01:51:53

Hah, I asked for $50k/armor part to make CAS for a guy, but I said I'd do his Carb armor for free. When he said "Well, youll do THAT for free, why not the CAS?" I said"Because you didnt even buy the liquid, and I've spent 2m on tradeskill implants, and I have to swap my implants and beg for a wrangle before I can get my gun back on. Plus, the set I'm making you is worth well over $10m. I think $350K is a hell of a deal for you"

He pretty much tried to ridicule me on the shop channel, so I decided to close up shop permanently except for friends, org members, and good-hearted nubis that are interested in the game.

He did get his friend to "do it for free", but he's wasted hours trying to sell that silly CAS set (In the time spent making 50K tradeskilling, I could have missioned for $300K easy, and got another token or maybe a rare drop. I've had people tip me $1m for a transfer!).

-Nuff said.

**Elbo** · Aug 20th, 2003, 17:55:44

As many have noticed I don't login at all anymore.

I've logged into a alt and scoped out the new things but over all I'm waiting for shadowlands before a major overahaul is done. The requirements on the engi masteries are above 800 so it isnt 'easy' to reach and shouldnt devalue the skills greatly.

With shadowlands about 2-3 weeks off things will rapidly change on prices. Should be interesting.

I have devalued the VTE's from 5 to 3 to 2M each. Rat helms shouldnt be devalued at all because of the requirements being so sick to reach etc. The nano making should devalue a bit along with some towers.

**Elbo** · Aug 20th, 2003, 18:32:43

Originally posted by Alpha-Centauri

I'm not trying to sound self-righteous. I just think perhaps telling others not to lower there prices is just silly. They have the right to be less greedy if they want to. For those that do trade skills for free I /salute you. Kindness has it's own rewards in karma, and what comes around does go around

Ok.

Let me say this so you can understand.

A: Your not a engineer nor are you asked 24/7 and are expected by people to render skills like VTE's and towers and etc.
B: You telling me or engineers in general what not to charge is silly and is self-righeous. Talk to the hand.
C: Defending Towers VS tradeskills arguement. Thats a new one. I sure got a good laugh out of that one.

If I get anyone wanting implant service done I'll send him your way. Let him swear at you until you put him on ignore because HE EXPECTS you to do it. I used to login and get hounded into doing tradeskills for 2 hours constantly before I got to 'my fun'.

Also before you go off on a huge post perhaps read the entire post before responding. ALOT of people have tried to do it for free but in the end charge because of the harassment and time involved.

**Blutfrau** · Aug 22nd, 2003, 03:30:54

EXACTLY!

Elbo, you're totally right. I made a trader-tradeskiller thinking that I wouldn't get harassed this way....now that I'm L59, I get harassed non-stop for wrangles (and for a 132!).

I had to make a macro stating "Sorry; I'm a tradeskiller; I dont have the nanos nor the IP to cast anything more than a 13 Wrangle". I am IMMEDIATELY called profanities, and told how "selfish" I am...or they dont believe me and keep saying "PLEASE?!?".

...and I immediately get a picture of how their parents are raising them. Oh, no, they aren't children; they're still being spoiled rotten in their late 20's and early 30's...still living at home, bossing their parents around in the same ways they expect other players to drop EVERYTHING and help THEM so THEY can play and have fun.

When I am a mother, like HELL if they'll act like that, in real lie or otherwise, EVER.

From now on, my tradeskilling time will be limited, and nothing for free. These jags ruined it.

**______________Nalima** · Aug 22nd, 2003, 13:07:40

../I get harassed non-stop for wrangles/..

What people do you include? Only spoiled brats or all types of people asking for wrangle?
From my point of view you have to ask for something in order to even have a chance of getting it. But ofcourse you can do it in a good or bad way. It would be nice to know how to do it the good way? Ask in vicinity or send a tell?

(I never played trader although I think I would prefer to have a tell, but maybe that only spawns tellhell)

**___________Wyetookay** · Aug 22nd, 2003, 16:22:11

I agree 110% with Elbo. Plus the fact that in order to do some of the high quality stuff you often need to:
change imps (which includes changing into a medsuit and getting a buff)
Change guns ( which often includes a buff to get them back on)
Change helmets or other clothing items
Bum buffs (which of course there is usualy never anyone around and you have to waste time looking)
And hit that Tutor bag.
By the end of all this your inventory is a mess, you are halfway dizy from opening an closing bags looking for tools ( I have a good 3 or 4 bags of tools along) and frustrated from running all over the place looking for someone to buff you.
Personaly I am real happy I can do ql 200 armor on my own, whithout imp switches. If there is anything that requires imps swithches or buffs I offer 2 options: either find me the people to buff me and bring them to me, or pay extra for me to do that.
It's simply amazing how much time you can blow trying to make something and then the people say all it takes is 1 click and you should not be charging for it.
Some people are so darn clueless that it's annoying.

**Cenelia** · Aug 23rd, 2003, 18:28:31

hmm, why ask creds for the tradeskilling ..

cause it is not an easy task for engineers to amass the credits for some of the better highlevel loot(50m for ppe hard for instance)

Now lets image Mr. X finding pppe shapehard armor in the mission he does after engineer Y made him new implants and armor. Mr X decides to auction the PPPE, min bid 40M, BO 50M
Engy Y wants the pppe, and bids 40M on it(of the 41 he has)
Then does Fixer Z, with a trader alt bid 50M on it. Now tell me, how big is the chance that Mr X gives the PPPE to engy Y, with a 10% discount on his bid, 'cause engy Y build the armor and implants for Mr X for free

**Cenelia** · Aug 23rd, 2003, 18:35:30

Originally posted by Nalima
Ask in vicinity or send a tell?

(I never played trader although I think I would prefer to have a tell, but maybe that only spawns tellhell)

I myself *never* send tells(only on 1 or 2 occansions where ppl convinced me that the guy dind't mind, and i still don't like I did >_<) for 1 simple reason

I hate it when someone interupts a conversation I have with a firend and send a /r to the wrong person. If I don't get a reply from vincity, the guy is either afk, ignoring me, or missed my question. If he misses the message due to spam tehre are usually 3-4 more ppl around to help me, if he is ignoring me or afk there's no point in keep asking. I usually wait 10-30 secs before moving on if I get no reply.

**Infekted** · Aug 29th, 2003, 10:59:10

Originally posted by Elbo

Ok.

Let me say this so you can understand.

So much anger in there eh elbo

Ok perhaps you had difficulty reading my post, that’s fine. But in case you suddenly have had an epiphany and have learnt some ability to digest information without distortion from your own impression as to what you "thought" I meant to say, then I shall attempt to clarify

Originally posted by Elbo

A: Your not a engineer nor are you asked 24/7 and are expected by people to render skills like VTE's and towers and etc.
B: You telling me or engineers in general what not to charge is silly and is self-righeous. Talk to the hand.
C: Defending Towers VS tradeskills arguement. Thats a new one. I sure got a good laugh out of that one.

A: No I am not an engi, however I do on average make 3 sets of imps a day. If I am not available to make something I state that I am busy, and they can wait or find someone else. I don't see how it is difficult to simply say "I am sorry but at the moment I want to do something/am too busy, if you cannot accept this then it is your problem"
B: I never "told" anyone want to do, I simply said it is a nice thing to do. If someone wants to charge, that’s fine, I won't argue with the individuals right to choose. However I will celebrate those kind enough to work for free as the noble spirits they are. Once again /prostrate

And "talk to the hand" eh

Is this Springer ?
C: I attempting to show you that others help you by going to defend your towers, without financial reward. They may hate there time. And what is the reward from you ? You as a eng are hardly going to be able to compensate with helping at there defence, plus I never see you there anyway. The point is that the game is about "our" side vs "there" side, and a eng best improves there sides standing by using there strongest assets and help construct items. In the same way I use my strongest asset, nuking people, and making implants. Because this is how a side wins, by being united.

Originally posted by Elbo

If I get anyone wanting implant service done I'll send him your way. Let him swear at you until you put him on ignore because HE EXPECTS you to do it. I used to login and get hounded into doing tradeskills for 2 hours constantly before I got to 'my fun'.

Also before you go off on a huge post perhaps read the entire post before responding. ALOT of people have tried to do it for free but in the end charge because of the harassment and time involved.

You are pretty naive elbo if you truly think I have never been in a situation with someone anti-social asking to have implants made. Of course I have, but I'm not what you would call thin skinned

And to be honest I have very rarely had someone behave like that to me, perhaps you need better people skills ? On the odd occasion when someone has been anti-social to me I just ask them to sort out there attitude or they can find another implanter. If they then don't sort themselves out, never happened , then I would just put them on /ignore and get about my day.

Ok I am going to offer you some advice, quite odd you have not spotted this. If you do not enjoy trade-skilling then there are a few suggestions I would make, firstly perhaps removing from your sig the amount you can get in trade skills. Secondly, and this would seem fairly obvious to me

Perhaps removing "Master of Tradeskills RK2" as your title on the forums

To clarify I am not criticising anyone’s right to charge for a service if they desire. I am just pointing out that people who do perform tradeskills for free are great people and they deserve a huge amount of respect and praise.

**Martinn** · Aug 29th, 2003, 12:58:01

Originally posted by Alpha-Centauri

A: No I am not an engi, however I do on average make 3 sets of imps a day.

There is a big difference in making a set of imps and getting 1300+ EE for a nice tower. I can make ql200 imps easy selfbuffed without swapping any items/imps. Hardly anyone charges for making normal imps. You dont need any special equipment to do it either. To make ql230 towers you need lots of rare hard to get armor, you gotta switch imps/armor/weapons, get several buffs, switch org contracts. Not to mention you will spend a lot of time getting your combat gear back on after you are done.

You as a eng are hardly going to be able to compensate with helping at there defence, plus I never see you there anyway. The point is that the game is about "our" side vs "there" side, and a eng best improves there sides standing by using there strongest assets and help construct items. In the same way I use my strongest asset, nuking people, and making implants. Because this is how a side wins, by being united.

When was the last time a engi got a PPPE for free so he could help his side....(And i'm not talking about his guild getting him one)

By making a tradeskill item you significantly increase the value of the parts the customer brings you. A lot of engis have tried doing tradeskills for free only to see the following conversation:

Customer: Can you make a set of ql200 CAS for me please...
Engi: Ok but its gonna cost you 1 mill.
Customer: Please can you do it for free. I dont have any money and i need it real bad..
Engi: Ok i guess i can do that.
*engi makes armor and gives it to customer*
Customer: thx
Customer: /s WTS full set ql200 cas. 20 mill.

Should not be a problem that the engi gets a small % of the profit.

To clarify I am not criticising anyone’s right to charge for a service if they desire. I am just pointing out that people who do perform tradeskills for free are great people and they deserve a huge amount of respect and praise.

I still do a lot of tradeskills for free but the hardest tradeskills i only do for free for friends.

There are many people i have done lots of tradeskills for free for. Its funny when the same people wont take 2 secs to buff my alt when i have spent hours making stuff for them. The reason most engis stop doing tradeskills for free is that once it gets known you make stuff for free you get a lot of tells but very little of the respect and praise you talk about.

**Elbo** · Aug 29th, 2003, 14:47:08

I'll just leave it at:

If you want to do tradeskills for free great. Make a post with what you can do for free. I've never stopped anyone (not that you can on this board) from doing anything for free.

I made the price list for tradeskills to balance out all the prices to a point where it was worth while in terms of time and effort rather than saying 'no thanks' to everyone and just leveling to 200 and camping some mob.

Also this is a guideline for all the tradeskillers from Doc's to Crat's to traders and Engineers. So they wouldnt have to guess at a price anymore. Standardizing things isnt bad.

Overall I think this post gives 99% 'great job elbo' vs complaints about price fixing which is always soundly trounced by others. (such as your reply)

As for your C. pointlessness and to quote "I attempting to show you that others help you by going to defend your towers, without financial reward."

I see no coralation between a tradeskills pricing post here in the forums and defending towers in the game. I think its pretty small of you to insinuate that I don't help fellow clanners in the game.

Ask a few guild leaders what I have done for them for free in the past before you even begin to talk to me again on this subject.

I won't reply futher to you so consider this your /ignore.

**___________Wyetookay** · Aug 29th, 2003, 19:43:33

I agree with Elbo 110%
As far as doing stuff for free, sure....as long as you are in my guild or are a freind of mine. If you don't know me from Adam, don't expect anything for free. Most of the time I will just tell people to tip what they feel is fair. If it's something more involved I usualy refere to Elbo's price guide.
Even then you get some "ninies" out there who refuse to tip. I just had something like that happen to me recently. I politely asked for a tip, and got the usual song and dance about being broke. I told the person to just tip whatever he thought it was fair. This person then started calling me names and dishing out obsceneties, at wich point I promptly placed his item on the ground and let him see it time out.
I have no respect for cheapscapes who think you owe them something. To me they are just as annoying as the beggers I constantly ignore at SG.

**Elbo** · Sep 11th, 2003, 14:46:31

I'll get to updating this when I perk myself and see whats obtainable for the higher end towers and see what the market will bear on pricing :-)

**Xephydes** · Sep 24th, 2003, 21:28:31

You rich bastards!

WTB Elbo's cash, I'll pay in Mochams

**Elbo** · Sep 25th, 2003, 12:29:10

I already paid my cash to funcom for SL and now I don't even need to have my mc/ts implants in now to cast my slayer.

I'll get serious about revamping the pricelist today and lowering a few prices as more and more people get the engi +125 buffs installed.

**Xephydes** · Sep 26th, 2003, 16:44:16

Originally posted by Elbo

I'll get serious about revamping the pricelist today and lowering a few prices as more and more people get the engi +125 buffs installed.

Inflation awaits?

**____________Edvieira** · Sep 26th, 2003, 17:24:45

Originally posted by Elbo
I'll get serious about revamping the pricelist today and lowering a few prices as more and more people get the engi +125 buffs installed.

We can't selfcast these yet, and apart from WS from pneumbra garden, we dont have any +125 yet. So i think you should hold that thought a little longer, or until people start to reach level 202.

**____________Edvieira** · Sep 26th, 2003, 17:27:03

I also think you should add a line or two with regard to minimum fee and travelling to/from SL-RK. In my tradeskills thread I put a 2M minimum if I have to return from SL.

**Elbo** · Sep 26th, 2003, 17:43:50

SHAT!!

I thought I uploaded the +125 version of the nano... seems I got the +80

Whoops!!

Oh well. Looks like I'll have to keep my trader around a bit longer.

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