Building an Anti-Personnel Turret in the Grace time of tower-gas..

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Originally Posted by drainbamage

Why do people keep whining about APTs? Boo hoo, there's one thing in the game you can't throw creds at to win.

The counter exists, mech up or shut up.

PS. It's "moot".

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Oh yeah, you only need creds to win... not.

Several of my twinks are cheap, costing only a fraction of what most other good twinks use at that level. I'll guarantee you, even though they're cheap they kick ass.

On RK2 there's even a TL3 fr00b trader, in a mix of Living Dragonflesh Pants, Steel-Ribbed, and Veil of the Revoked and such other cheap gear, competing with paid twinks that have billions spent into gear.

To view it from the other side, I have also seen certain players throw absurd amounts of cash at a twink, only to see it fail HORRIBLY against someone with far lesser gear.

The beautiful thing with AO pvp is that it's not necessarily only revolving around gear (of course super twink > complete gimp anyday), but that knowing what the hell you're doing, and the skill to time it all, makes a HUGE difference too. AO pvp is extremely complex, when compared to AO pvm, and this is what makes it fun. Mech "pvp" is... well, everyone having the exact same stats sitting in the exact same vehicles spamming Burst/Fling/FullAuto. Exciting? ..not really.

Because obviously you haven't gotten to enjoy true pvp yet, I'll tell you straight up: mech "pvp" is the antagonist of AO's pvp.

For that reason, I attempt to avoid meching or turreting up whenever I can. And again I concur with Escritores, I wouldn't lose one night's sleep if they realised that mech "pvp" is a grand mistake and removed it from the game overnight. Failing that, please just get rid of the bloody APT in grace; because as it is the new APT - when repeatedly deployed in grace - are retarded.

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Originally Posted by drainbamage

Boo hoo, there's one thing in the game you can't throw creds at to win.

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Then to finish off, I would like to highlight an excessively stupid part of your post and turn it around: Boo hoo, without APT there's one thing in the game you can't throw zerglings at to win.

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Originally Posted by Lupusceleri

Oh yeah, you only need creds to win... not.

Several of my twinks are cheap, costing only a fraction of what most other good twinks use at that level. I'll guarantee you, even though they're cheap they kick ass.

On RK2 there's even a TL3 fr00b trader, in a mix of Living Dragonflesh Pants, Steel-Ribbed, and Veil of the Revoked and such other cheap gear, competing with paid twinks that have billions spent into gear.

To view it from the other side, I have also seen certain players throw absurd amounts of cash at a twink, only to see it fail HORRIBLY against someone with far lesser gear.

The beautiful thing with AO pvp is that it's not necessarily only revolving around gear (of course super twink > complete gimp anyday), but that knowing what the hell you're doing, and the skill to time it all, makes a HUGE difference too. AO pvp is extremely complex, when compared to AO pvm, and this is what makes it fun. Mech "pvp" is... well, everyone having the exact same stats sitting in the exact same vehicles spamming Burst/Fling/FullAuto. Exciting? ..not really.

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Oh, I'm not saying skill has no factor. But clearly the real biggest factor is how much creds you can blow, and people are upset at anything that threatens to change that. Just look at some of the responses in this thread.

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Because obviously you haven't gotten to enjoy true pvp yet, I'll tell you straight up: mech "pvp" is the antagonist of AO's pvp.

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Ever play EVE? Players there have a saying; "adapt or die".

As it stands, mechs and turrets are a part of PVP. If you can't (or won't) adapt, you don't deserve to win.

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Then to finish off, I would like to highlight an excessively stupid part of your post and turn it around: Boo hoo, without APT there's one thing in the game you can't throw zerglings at to win.

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/pat

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Originally Posted by Lupusceleri

Oh yeah, you only need creds to win... not.

Several of my twinks are cheap, costing only a fraction of what most other good twinks use at that level. I'll guarantee you, even though they're cheap they kick ass.

On RK2 there's even a TL3 fr00b trader, in a mix of Living Dragonflesh Pants, Steel-Ribbed, and Veil of the Revoked and such other cheap gear, competing with paid twinks that have billions spent into gear.

To view it from the other side, I have also seen certain players throw absurd amounts of cash at a twink, only to see it fail HORRIBLY against someone with far lesser gear.

The beautiful thing with AO pvp is that it's not necessarily only revolving around gear (of course super twink > complete gimp anyday), but that knowing what the hell you're doing, and the skill to time it all, makes a HUGE difference too. AO pvp is extremely complex, when compared to AO pvm, and this is what makes it fun. Mech "pvp" is... well, everyone having the exact same stats sitting in the exact same vehicles spamming Burst/Fling/FullAuto. Exciting? ..not really.

Because obviously you haven't gotten to enjoy true pvp yet, I'll tell you straight up: mech "pvp" is the antagonist of AO's pvp.

For that reason, I attempt to avoid meching or turreting up whenever I can. And again I concur with Escritores, I wouldn't lose one night's sleep if they realised that mech "pvp" is a grand mistake and removed it from the game overnight. Failing that, please just get rid of the bloody APT in grace; because as it is the new APT - when repeatedly deployed in grace - are retarded.



Then to finish off, I would like to highlight an excessively stupid part of your post and turn it around: Boo hoo, without APT there's one thing in the game you can't throw zerglings at to win.

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/win

You guys should have supported my "remove Burst and Full Auto from APT's" thread instead of trying to flame for half a month :p

Just be glad towers haven't been updated and we can't use mines and crap in our tower sites. Tower wars should be a lot harder and more complicated, and really we just have problems with people having two different perspectives.

Remember kiddos, it isn't your place to decide whose opinion is wrong :) Just try to remember not everyone thinks like you do but neither you nor them is necessarily wrong. The balance is almost always somewhere in the middle so take a step foward from the extreme back to the middle and find common ground.

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Originally Posted by drainbamage

But clearly the real biggest factor is how much creds you can blow

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Ever made a TL2/3/4 twink yourself? Maybe participated in a TL2/3/4 war? Did you ever see TL2/3/4 twinks have a fight and pay some attention to what they're wearing?

Actually, did you even read my post? Are Steel-Ribbed Armor and QL170+ implants too expensive for you to afford?

Do you ever pvp other than sitting in a turret to farm VP in a battlestation, or defend your own org's towers?

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Originally Posted by drainbamage

Ever play EVE? Players there have a saying; "adapt or die".

As it stands, mechs and turrets are a part of PVP. If you can't (or won't) adapt, you don't deserve to win.

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In fact, no, I haven't. But I'm fairly certain that if EVE suddenly had some lame form of three-button "pvp" added that could compete with the most skilled players using extremely complex and expensive spaceships, EVE's players would raise hell.

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Originally Posted by Gatester

You guys should have supported my "remove Burst and Full Auto from APT's" thread

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Which doesn't fix the problem:

- APT are deployable in grace.
- Everyone including supertwinks still die to them even with Burst/FA removed, so just ignoring is not an option (this is fine).
- To remove the APT from the CT, you need to back up, lose aggro, and mech up.
- Failing to lose aggro results in death.
- Losing aggro or death results in the CT regenerating to 100%.
- Six minutes later - you need more time to kill the CT from 100% hp, unless you've brought an excessive zerg - the APT is again deployed in grace.
- Repeat ad infinitum.

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In fact, no, I haven't. But I'm fairly certain that if EVE suddenly had some lame form of three-button "pvp" added that could compete with the most skilled players using extremely complex and expensive spaceships, EVE's players would raise hell.

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In EVE skill, tactics and numbers will win over money and time spent. You'd probably hate it.

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Originally Posted by drainbamage

Why do people keep whining about APTs? Boo hoo, there's one thing in the game you can't throw creds at to win.

The counter exists, mech up or shut up.

PS. It's "moot".

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So your active tl3-4 twinks are? Unless you have experience in this sit down and shut up...

P.S. It's mute if I say it's mute... :)

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Originally Posted by Lupusceleri

Ever made a TL2/3/4 twink yourself? Maybe participated in a TL2/3/4 war? Did you ever see TL2/3/4 twinks have a fight and pay some attention to what they're wearing?

Actually, did you even read my post? Are Steel-Ribbed Armor and QL170+ implants too expensive for you to afford?

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Hey I use predaz0r and QL 200!!!!!11!!!! imps on my 90 OKAIY (and a 2 pieces of CSS but sssshh)

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Originally Posted by drainbamage

In EVE skill, tactics and numbers will win over money and time spent. You'd probably hate it.

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Probably, yeah, because I prefer a tactic/skill/equipment game over a numbers>all game any day.

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Originally Posted by Chrys

Hey I use predaz0r and QL 200!!!!!11!!!! imps on my 90 OKAIY (and a 2 pieces of CSS but sssshh)

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OMG TOO EXPENSIVE

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Originally Posted by Lupusceleri

Which doesn't fix the problem:

- APT are deployable in grace.
- Everyone including supertwinks still die to them even with Burst/FA removed, so just ignoring is not an option (this is fine).
- To remove the APT from the CT, you need to back up, lose aggro, and mech up.
- Failing to lose aggro results in death.
- Losing aggro or death results in the CT regenerating to 100%.
- Six minutes later - you need more time to kill the CT from 100% hp, unless you've brought an excessive zerg - the APT is again deployed in grace.
- Repeat ad infinitum.

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Except the main complaint is that APTs deployed in grace are killing players, which any noob will have GSF at a tower fight and easily get away from an APT that takes 6+ seconds to kill them rather than alpha, even if you are dumb enough to still be there in the first place.

Also, AVB without Burst and FA won't be able to alpha mechs either, which means mechs could actually take them down in reasonable cases.

Consider it like a rooted soldier with perma AMS/TMS with FA burst AS and kizzers, then take away the FA burst. If you die to a soldier with just kizzers and AS that can't even move when you have tools to defeat them, then you just suck :p



Another suggestion is allow meching to take half the time of APTing, which means if you ***actually bring more than one person*** then you better not complain that "omg they used 6 defenders and defeated us" because that is the only way you are gonna be stopped by APTs again.

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Originally Posted by Gatester

Except the main complaint is that APTs deployed in grace are killing players, which any noob will have GSF at a tower fight and easily get away from an APT that takes 6+ seconds to kill them rather than alpha.

Also, AVB without Burst and FA won't be able to alpha mechs either, which means mechs could actually take them down in reasonable cases.

Consider it like a rooted soldier with perma AMS/TMS with FA burst AS and kizzers, then take away the FA burst. If you die to a soldier with just kizzers and AS that can't even move when you have tools to defeat them, then you just suck :p

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I guess we can argue until forever, but the way I see it APT's biggest problem is that they are deployable in grace.

The fact that they can (insta)kill twinks at higher TL2 and TL3/TL4, just means they can't be ignored so you will have to deal with them. That's fine, because after all, they are designed to kill infantry.

What's not fine, is that they can be used to infinitely defend a base from infantry, even if the attacking force mechs whenever an APT is deployed. And that should be fixed. :)

EDIT: The piece you edited in:

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Originally Posted by Gatester

Another suggestion is allow meching to take half the time of APTing, which means if you ***actually bring more than one person*** then you better not complain that "omg they used 6 defenders and defeated us" because that is the only way you are gonna be stopped by APTs again.

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Is also a very nice suggestion. :)

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Originally Posted by Gatester

Just be glad towers haven't been updated and we can't use mines and crap in our tower sites. Tower wars should be a lot harder and more complicated, and really we just have problems with people having two different perspectives.

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I dont agree on this one, as it stands now, tower wars is something for the elite or the very very adventurous player. The average player(id estimate arround 90%ish of them) doesnt know or understand the tower mechanics as they are atm. A lot of players never ever been to a tower battle, and all the know at most is the random spams they get about it.

Making them more complicated would only make this worse.