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I was wondering if ~ALL~ outside buffs are going to have level caps on them to where if someone is outside buffed, it will have a much less effect.
Off the top of my head, I think of: behe, fixer hot, GSF, MP mochams, doctor HP buff, RRFE, any weapon/special <target> buff.
Should all these outbuffs see huge dimensions stats for being very strong for low levels? Will re-balance address all of them?
Im strongly against any kind of level lock on those buffs, but things like cl buff should be locked because it gives huge advantage at low levels.
While I refuse to EVER roll a level 1/2/3 twink because it is so heavily dominated by OSB's and I am a pure self-only pvp'er (with the exception of the occasional TTS once in awhile cause aimedshot love is :D), I do think part of what made low level pvp fun and challenging was the twinking to be able to receive said OSB's and bolster your equipment or character that much further.
Though its stupid to see someone with RRFE/Hack n Quack/Behe and be completely invulnerable, I guess thats part of the excitement or something?
Who knows. But twinking has always been the foundation of AO.. so anything that takes away from that.. meh.. it really should be thought about if removing the OSB's at low levels is even the correct thing to do.
I would imagine that FC would want to avoid this where possible. In general, you want to allow as much freedom in character building and buffing as possible. At the same time, where particular inequities build up as a result of OSBs, then they probably will end up having to step in, in some way.
It would be good if FC could generally find a better solution though... sliding scales of buffs based on target level, for example.
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lets have level locked profession specific implants also
I do not believe that attribute modifying outside buffs should be effected, NS, FG, ES, IC, ect. should be tiered and locked out as this greatly diminishes part of what makes AO interesting and exciting. Non skill modifying outside buffs I think are where we should see locks. RRFE, and HoTs are just two examples that fall into this category. As far as skill modifying outside buffs I have mixed feelings regarding these. These skills again play a large factor into the twinking of a character therefore would diminish that aspect of the game. These skills would include Mochams, Wrangles, and weapon buffs.
Just my own personal opinion on where I think outside buffs would be considered as acceptable and where they would not.
Yes, let's make it even harder for everybody to kill stuff that gives nontrivial amounts of exp. Capital idear!
Semiserious: I'd be ambivalent if it was packaged with a totally redone, actually reasonable character-growth curve, provided the rebalance takes into account that the OSB'd pet classes that dominate lowbie gameplay currently become useless once they hit 150ish. But if this is strictly a PvP thing it would probably make more sense to add some OSB removing combat nanos or something, lest this become another case where 90% of the players get screwed to give 10% power users moar epeen.
I see what you did there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Otinsainpas
QFTQuote:
Originally Posted by Whealer
Level locking twinking buffs = bad. Level locking purely temporary power boost buffs = good.
Because traders need lots of NCU in order to SELF-buff by draining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neosh1
Not like they have any other self buffs worth mentioning.
If you don't mean mean anything below 25, anyone can get a fixer NCU extension.
What AO really needs, is a deep mechanics change, that allows the effects of nanos to have conditions attached, based on which the final value of the buff/debuff/heal can be calculated. Adding a mechanic such as this would give you an extremely flexible control over buff/debuff/heal values over a wide range of circumstances, for example:
* Higher level players buffing lower level players need to give smaller buffs - but still be high buffs when buffing their peers.
* Damage debuffing mobs needs to be bigger in value than damage debuffing players... but the debuff should not so massively debuff much lower level mobs, to help powerlevelling lowbies
* A HoT given to a low level player needs to be suitable in heal value for the target's level, even if given by a high level player.
* Trader Drains: the higher in the ladder they go, the less the debuff/buff resulting based on relative level of caster/target
* A player debuffs a target for a higher value based on higher Nanoskills... but debuffs the target for less if the target has stronger Nano Resist.
* etc. etc.
I've used Damage Debuff as the example here, but it could just as easily be NCU buff value or a trader drain value or a fixer HoT value or whatever. So with the Damage Debuff example, a nano might have a base effect. e.g.:
Effect: Debuff Damage
Value: 1000
But then you'd want to be able to say that based on a condition, that base amount would have a percentage applied to it. e.g.:
Effect: Debuff Damage
Base Value: 1000
Condition: Caster Level / Target Level
The Condition would be calculated to deliver a Modifier - and then the Base Effect would be multiplied by that value to find the End Value. So in the above example, if the level of the Caster was 100 and the level of the mob was 90, then:
Effect: Debuff Damage
Base Value: 1000
Condition: Target Level / Caster Level
Modifier: 90 / 100 = 0.9
End Value: = 1000 * 0.9 = 900
Where a nano has a range - for example, a heal might heal for (300-600) - then the modifier is applied to both range values. So a modifier of 2.0 would turn a 300-600 heal into a 600-1200 heal.
Any condition could be used, that would return a modification value. For example, you might do a comparison of attack skills Vs Defence Skills on a debuff:
Effect: Debuff Damage
Base Value: 1000
Condition: Casting AR / Target NR
So, when using this against a mob - you might have an MP with Casting AR of 2000 and a mob with NanoResist of 1800:
Effect: Debuff Damage
Base Value: 1000
Condition: Casting AR / Target NR
Modifier: 2000 / 1800 = 1.1
End Value: 1000 * 1.1 = 1100
Since you're still basing the value of the buff/debuff/heal on an absolute value, you can create real nano-lines with increasing power as you go up the line, while still managing the effects of the nanos according to the conditions.
Such an example shows another major benefit of a system like this, which is that having more than the required skill for casting, gives a real benefit through affecting the actual value of the buff/debuff... but also highlights an issue: when designing nanolines for such a system, a player might end up getting a higher value with a low QL nano, than with a nano of higher QL.
So you need to add in some kind of min/max values for the modifiers, for example:
Effect: Debuff Damage
Base Value: 1000
Condition: Casting AR / Target NR
Min Modifier: 0.7
Max Modifier: +2.0
Such a nano would never debuff for less than 700 or more than 2000. By setting Min and Max modifiers, you could ensure that, where necessary, the nanos perform within ranges that do not overlap with other nanos in the line (or only overlap by a controlled amount).
This system allows a lot of flexibility in the conditions you can choose to compare and then modifies the resulting buff accordingly. You could also add If... conditions such as 'If Target = NPC then conditionX, Else If Target = Player then condition Y'. You'd be able to really fit the size of buffs, debuffs etc to the situation as required.
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I agree, but considering how long it takes them to do a rebalance, any deep mechanics changes would probably go live sometime around the heat death of the universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremTech
Well every prof needs NCU for selfbuff, trader drains (pre 25/self) take like ~20NCU each, and lets say other buffs take another 50, a normal twink got ~180-200 ncu, so u would have plenty left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metafizis
But no, you need mochams and hot and behe also.. i mean, wtf. I dont find reason why not to lvl lock CL buff.
Hehe... well... you never know... ;)
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