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Kintaii said bring it up in another thread so I feel it should be. I personally at this time have nothing to add right now (its midnight I need to sleep) But I will write in more in the morningish. So I'll just quote what started the whole ordeal.
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Originally Posted by Phixalicious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kintaii
Also please do not post any personal attacks in this thread, people naturally have different views of art and stories than yourself.
Phixa is right i think,
AO has become a crazy mish mash of different ideas, i haven't researched it at all. and im one of the only people who actually like SL, but when you sit back and think of all the things that are in the game... its like.. WAH ?! why is that there ? WTF ? i just saved the world? well, it sure as hell didn't feel like it.
im just typing how the game makes me feel. story line is a bit wooly from DB onwards, LOX etc. i like a storyline but from now on the only thing I'm interested in is the phats at the end because the stories have got a bit out of control. and one other thing ? Anarchy online ? why was this name chosen? everytime i mention this name to someone who is not privy with the world of MMORPG i get.. *sounds like some /emo /wrists game to me, im not interested*. i must admit when i actually first heard of it many years ago i did think the same.
imo, this game needs a re-launch, after a 6 month overhaul of everything that hasn't been tied up in terms of the story line, the name, THE GRAPHICS!. despite all this i still love ao for its grown up environment, realistic effects, and unique gameplay. THIS IS WHY I STILL PLAY. these aspects dont need to be changed.
i LOVE the original idea of what RK is for all these factions ( i say *all* these factions, i mean omni and clan since neut dont want anything to do with it LOL ), NW i love, AI i LOVE, SL i like, LE i hate, LOX i dispise... -.-
oh and P.S, i dont know if this is the right forum to put it in.. :P
As Kintaii has pointed out, SL is, and always has been, part of the "greater" AO storyline.
The Xan (or even some entities before/beyond them) were the ones who started it all. Not just the events that resulted in humanity being exterminated then recreated by the Omegas then going out to space and eventually finding the planet now known as Rubi-Ka, not just the Conflict millions or billions of years ago that tore apart and pushed "The planet now known as Shadowlands" out into some half-existence, but ALL. All of life, all of everything, by tapping into and using some sort of "universal energy" that some call The Source and others call NTG411-6. And then, at some point, their creations also learned how to tap into this energy. And it corrupted and consumed one group of them, and another group is apparently bound to a similar fate on the long run.
The groundworks for all of this are in Prophet Without Honor, and the rest you can piece together by actually reading the dialogues and whatnot in the SL (and even some of the RK) quests.
Many people apparently have the misconception of "sci-fi = strictly spaceships and laser pistols", and thus something where you see transparent winged creatures with "swords", huge flying "dragons", and stuff ike that must not be sci-fi but fantasy.
But what I see when I look at the Shadowlands and the stories behind it is the remnants of an alien world and culture where different circumstances resulted in different biological, social and technological development. They are not using "magic", they are using the exact same nano- and implant technology that is being used by humans (and probably the same or similar tehcnology their predecessors used on a much greater scale to "create stuff"). They had their advanced technology and machinery, they had their spaceships, they even had their own version of insurance/reclaim/cloning (the blueprint patterns and the incarnators) but most of it is gone by now, and they themselves also have "de-evolved" into a lot more limited kind of existence in which they are only using (and sometimes not even knowingly or on purpose, more like just instinctively; or what's even worse, because they are trapped in malfunctioning systems of their own creation that keep resurrecting them in a static state of body and mind so they are destined to do the same things over and over again) whatever has left of that technology they have developed a long time ago.
Thus, to me, AO is definitely sci-fi, and sci-fi on a scale that's not particularly common in computer games be them single player or MMO.
Brilliant post, Honorbound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honorbound
+1 *thumbs up, honor :)
i also think AO as a fusion MMO between Scifi (wich is a rare concept in todays MMO) and a very specific (aka NOT Lotrish or Wowish cloning) Fantasy-like universes all together.
as pointed out already, this concept of "Scifantasy" (if i can say) was planted from the beginning on classic game, eg by having Mediavalish cities (Tir, Avalon) as much as Futuristic ones (OT ones for the most).
SL/Xan addons followed the concept of such mutagenic storyline & creature encounter ("Retrofuturistic" or "De-evolved" as explained), while LE/AI were more oriented as purely Scific (E.T., mechs, orbital, and so on). In a way, NW is more of Scific, eg with the closeby of Dune (i see notum for ****e, ofc).
that makes a very specific AO brand if you ask me, and that also give more freedom to the game devs. add to that it has the capability of attracting both audiences (scifi & fantasy), and in my case not reject those fed up with too many heroic clonez ("elf, dwarf or human ; mage, knight or thief : make your choice" - okay : /quit).
i'd just like the game to repopulate a little over rebalance, daily mish & revamp and particularly new engine :)
There very huge parts of shadowrun in ao.....
Lotīs of stuff is taken from Science Fiction Films :
Mantis aka StarShip Trooper?
Teleport Rings from Stargate @ Jobe Plattforms
and more ^^
So itīs Science Fiction with a Fantasy Alignment ^^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_lawsQuote:
Originally Posted by Honorbound
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke
__
My one problem with shadowlands is that they did not leave enough of the technology built into the land when the devs designed it. If you go to LoX you can see the technology still built into the area, the remains of things that were lost. While SL has these remains they are few and far between.
But yes, you typed the post I wanted to, grats to you Honor :P
So far as I can see it AO's brand is that it's not like anything else. It's one of the few places where you mix up a sci-fi world with a semi-fantasy world (that's really just super advanced tech) and you have this rather charming alternate-reality with the possibility to add in ancient secrets a la fantasy and yet keep it sci-fi'ish.
Personally I think the recent focus has been a bit too much on all kinds of things like spirits and monsters in SL, and I would like to see the game taking a bit of time to end that part, finish up the aliens part and then get on with the sci-fi story that started the game; the struggle between clan and omni. Let's see how that was affected by the clash between the redeemed and the unredeemd and how we it all relates to the way we defeat the aliens and uncover Xan junk out in the outzones.
I had just always figured most of the machines in Shadwlands had either malfunctioned and blown up, been pulled apart and salvaged to make weapons, or sunk into ground due to earthquakes. But I guess they could of left more when they were designing it as you said. You get a few missions from Jobe scientist in the different zones and on a small scale they are trying to excavate the land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Technogen
In LoX area on the other hand there is a massive undertaking to uncover the ancient machines. The Dustbrigade, Unicorns and Aliens are all in a pretty small area trying to get their hands on the ancient machines. I think that is why its a lot easier to see the machines/ ancient equipment there.
I keep saying that the aliens need a new tactical advisor, cause it definitely looks like they're losing this "invasion"Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastablasta
I was originally attracted to AO by the punk sci-fi theme mixed with the sense of pioneering. The extreme urban settings of Omni-1, hunting down and killing the remnants of failed medical experiments, and then coming across a little shanty town out in the middle of nowhere, where people are just trying to get by. The quality level system kind of fit into that, as well. You started off using junky, barely working equipment that had probably been pulled off of a dead clanner. Gradually, as your character became more richer and more influential (higher lvl) you could afford and equip better versions of the same item.
The environment was rich with story. The world had, and still has, lots of potential. Delve into the creation of mutants. What about the cyborgs? What's their agenda? Surely they've got something else going on other than chasing NTs and getting a Kels to the face. You can wander around in Broken Shores, Mort, and PW and locate terraforming machinery. Or you can wander around those zones and find nothing at all. There's a lot of unused space.
The political atmosphere was fun to look into as well. The battles with the clans, the peace treaties that were forged and then later disregarded. The setting had something we could all identify with. Even the backstory was interesting. Hypercorporations replaced conventional governments that had fought against eachother in large scale battles, each claiming their own worlds. Imagine IKEA vs Walmart. The descriptions of items suggest economic competition. MTI's military hardware was in direct competition OT's. There are even "illegal" SOL banking weapons which hint that OT still has a grudge against them from a previous war that was "before our time".
The technology that we saw in classic AO was even somewhat believable. The devs put time trying to explain the technology. X does Y because of Z. And you're like, ok.. that's cool. I wish we had this. SL items lack that. Health coils simply say "This am healz u!"
When SL was released, it more or less broke me. I didn't play AO for about a year after the release. It had seemed at the time, that while there was a lot of RP, AO fanfic and such at the time, the game took a hairpin turn in a completely different direction. The game no longer was about notum and war, it was about the exploration of the ruins of some kind of magical kingdom. There was no more Evil Corporation/Status Quo vs Terrorists/Revolutionaries.
SL replaced the ultramodern cities and harsh landscapes with the greenery we see in Nasc and Ely. The feeling was akin to getting off a bus in Chicago, taking a trip down a dark alley and finding yourself on a nature walk. Such a clash of environments. SL did add a new look, though, and that came with tier armor. Some of it is overly ridiculous (trader hat/bag, the MA banana suit), some of it looked cool. But it replaced the scavenged armor and hand-me down bits feeling.
The conflict in SL, while explained with stories in quests, just seems obligatory. Why am I aligned with the unredeemed? Because I'm Omni? Where does that fit in? Do the unredeemed and Omni-Tek have some kind of treaty? Why am I fighting the Redeemed? This isn't my war... At least with OT vs Clan I had a choice in the matter and I knew what I was getting into. There were pros and cons to each side. I could defend my status as an OT employee claiming that "I'm helping make a better world with a focus on order and justice" while clanners can claim that we just want to control everything. The SL conflict doesn't have that kind of backstory. You learn later on about what caused the rift between the two factions, but... how is that related to me in any sort of way?
I have the sudden urge to burn the omni-tek logo onto my left asscheek using a branding iron.
I get a little tired of the people that talk about SL as fantasy and FC's attempt to draw in a more diverse crowd. I just wish I could take Honorbound's entire post and plaster it in every forum and every website for AO. It perfectly explains what I have been trying to tell people all along about why SL makes sense. This idea that humans can travel to a new world and have it all be cyber punk, city noir is a bit naive. The fact that creatures from SL evolved along a different path and chose to eschew our concept of technology for something more nature based does not in anyway detract from the storyline of AO. It only enriches it because it makes the immersion more possible. Frankly, if I was reading a story where humans had travelled to a distant planet and found other humans or humanoid creatures that were living in cities reminiscent of the Blade Runner movies, that would be unbelievable to me. The fact that the native creatures of SL do not comform to that concept makes it more enjoyable to me.
And there is a coherent, intelligent storyline that runs throughout SL. The progression of the zones, the creatures that inhabit it, the ruins that exist, these are all explained in (sometimes too great) depth as you do the quests that are available along the way. Although I agree with the post about Omni being aligned with the Unredeemed. I still don't understand how that was decided or why, but I'm sure it's out there for me to find some day.
Just because a planet is occupied with "fantasy like" creatures, does not mean the humans that have created the ability to travel there are now in a fantasy story. It's still sci-fi and it still makes sense.
This is about as close to my own feeling about the game as it can get. SL feels like one big archeological dig (which I guess it is too)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastablasta
When I first started playing, I was only a froob, and back then I was certain the game designers where big Dune fans. I am a big Dune fan so i was very pleased, and I have a su****ion it was also partly why I decided to continue being neutral.
As Mastablasta this conflict is really what I'd like to see developed, and it has always been what I felt was at the core of this game. I'd rather keep looking forward, than continue to dig in the past.
I got bored with Prophet Without Honor before I managed to finish it...
But SL is scifi, up to a point. The heavy mix of arthurian/whatever lore sort of throws it off, as do the redeemed/unredeemed/xan. I understand that it's sposed to be this metaphysical supreme being stuff, but it wasn't done with too much flexibility when it came to actually explaining why the hell I was there and why I should bother helping these ungrateful unredeemed. Immersion wasn't even close to possible. For me, SL was a big, dead post-apocalytic fairy tale that didn't bother to explain itself to my standards. Sure, there were the "quest lines" later on, but I was too busy chugging coffee to have the patience to read page after page after page of mind numbing dialog, so I don't really know what happened.
I just know that Rubi-Ka had enough of the right sci-fi influences to keep me well interested in it. The immersion was also a lot stronger, too. I think the original designers took the time to actually think about what they were making, and try to make it as believable as possible. So while you'll have to take nipple-tek on faith, at least it had an explanation that approaches logic.
I agree with a lot of the responses, too. We've been screwing around with ghosts and dead things and these stupid aliens for too long. How bout we forget about the Xan and the Dust Brigade and the One and that silly stuff for awhile. Go read Neuromancer or the complete Hitchhiker's "trilogy" and come up with something new in the style of "classic" AO.
The later quest lines in Shdowlands give a lot of back story. People who skip the dialogue after each of those quest have no place to complain that things just don't make since when in fact the information is there, they just cant be bothered to read it.
They did do a good job on RK though. You could get a lot more history off of an old random RK store weapons description then you could in a long dialogue with one of the SL npc back in the beginning.
Think about all the Xan content. What is more classic AO then the Dustbrigade? Sure they got a face lift but it is still the same group. Having some of the story come to a conclusion would be nice though. But I imagine that is far from over, the aliens still havnt even made it into the actual Shadowlands it self after all these years.
Ooooh. Conscripted to defend the Unredeemed/Redeemed from an alien incursion. Yes plix!Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim_One
I love AOs story, and its very interesting, until it gets to SL. I can understand that theres this "link" between the two, but i cant help but think one of the creators was thinking "Oh, this expansion will attract the players who like fantasy based games". They Make it based on technology yadda yadda but its a stretch. The whole things seems kinda cheezy to me, on a more drastic scale imagine if they did something like adding a vampire quest line just to get the kids who are crazy about them atm.... seems very cheezy...
But when i think of AO, i think of the classic storyline, clans forming and breaking off of omni-tek, the creation of the Atrox, Opifex, Nanomage, Solitus.... I dont think of SL or even the aliens. So I would say AO's brand is a war, and ive seen few games that were so rich with the war story.