18.7.4.11 Adv Stuff

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Originally Posted by Michizure

Adventurer Single & Team heals are in separate nanolines, allowing for slightly speedier healing

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Single heals have 3s recharge and 4s cooldown. This boosts BoL spam hp/s from 600 to 735 and rk heal spam hp/s from 192 (moonbeam) to 236 (one with nature). The two lowest single heals (quick heal, rough stitching) have 1s recharge.

18.7.4.10 Changes: lower level heals had their recharge and line cooldowns adjusted to better match their old values. I won't bother itemizing all of them here.
The two lowest heals still have 4s cooldown—oversight?

Team heals have 4s [now 3s in 18.7.4.10] recharge and 8s cooldown, except the lowest one which has 1s recharge.

A smoother transition from RK to SL heals would still be nice, but spending less time in nano recharge is a very welcome change and the cooldown values seem pretty okay.

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Originally Posted by Michizure

Lowered cooldown on AoE tranquilizer debuffs

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These went from 15/10/5 minute cooldowns to 10/5/2 minutes.

Though these obviously have more utility than cleanly pulling a single mob from a distance, that was always one of their primary uses—something anybody with ql1 aggression enhancer can do every 5s from any visible range.

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Originally Posted by Michizure

Moved HP component of Pitlizard auras to a separate nano which will not recast if it's already running

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Working as advertised. Simple fix for an annoying issue, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Michizure

Lowered Requirements for Form of Cerberus and Hide of Cerberus

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Form of Cerberus has 1777 bm/mm/si reqs, down from 1843 bm/mm, 1834 si.
Hide of Cerberus has 960 pm/si reqs, down from 1444 pm/si.

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Originally Posted by Michizure

Removed Specialization requirements from QL 125 morph auras

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Should be welcome news to froob advs and agents. The nanocrystals were also moved from the ofab/le vendor to ICC/Omni/Clan Adventurer nano vendors.
Further 18.7.4.10 changes: all auras now have 5s cast time, down from 10s

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Originally Posted by Michizure

Increased duration of various nanos to 4 hours

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Many adv buffs included here, presumably more to come.

I have this irrational and unsubstantiated fear that any affected buffs will be considered 'done' and never looked at again and my hatred of the level locks on the weapon buffs grows stronger with each passing day.

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Originally Posted by Michizure

Reaver, Blunt Mastery, Edged Mastery, and Bone Crusher will require the first perk to execute for further perks to be used; these initial perks should land more often.

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This really deserves its own thread in a more general forum. I can't fathom what perceived issue this is attempting to address, and it will only make using these perks irritating.

I'll do this quick and dirty,

Heals: "Adventurer Single & Team heals are in separate nanolines, allowing for slightly speedier healing"
What Mich says is part true but the mayority part is false. (written with the assumtion that the numbers on TL are correct, ;-) Mich are these numbers correct??? as Scum has found a few odd's however I think those might have been more inline with the idea of "faster casting" read = Flawless Stitching)

First of all, it has become alot more complex. And the simple pressing single heal doens't apply anymore. This is mainly caused by the nano's having recharge durations and cooldowns. These two things also give the false impression that nano's have become "quick"... Using only single heals or only team heals are in general slower then we have now, so if only one line is used, then we've been nerfed O.o. Combining these lines makes the math harder but can indeed increase your heal capability by a smal %. The hassle of useing both line to get the "extra" isn't ideal and as such I don't think of this as an improvement at all.

I'll leave out the starter nano's as these are on a 1 sec recharge.. (But actually these are the only once I like and are a real improvement :S )

If you only use single heals, below QL 130 (Greater Restore Health) your ability to heal repeatedly has decreased. The recharge might be 3sec (below QL 50 this is also an increase of recharge) but the cooldown will keep you from casting that line at 4sec. At QL 50 (if you would only use Alleviate Pain) that's a full nerf of an extra second or 33% less heal. From Flawless Stitching (QL 143) and up the casting reduces// the healing % actually gets better where with BoL we've gained and increase of almost 19.5% more healing (still low imho..)

If you only would be using Team-heals this math even gets worse. Recharge has been set for 4 seconds. Which is about on par with Greater Team Quick Heal (QL 54) below this nano team heals have gotten slower recharges (read nerfed) this is getten even worse if you look at the cooldown which is set at 8 seconds. With the use of only QL 54 team heals your healing capability has been reduced by about 50% O.o At end game only using team heals will set the reduction at roughly 33% less healing power. On this part we are almost set back to old MA lvl's....

Combining the two lines. The most effective way of using these together, works only on [yourself] or [one single team-member]. Because then you'll benifit from the small reduction of the recharge and using the overlap of the cooldown by switching heal lines. Math I'm not intrested on doing. Because this little gain is imho minor for the hassle it introduces, the casting it requires and the so few options it applies to.

In short,if healing an entire team they are worse off by 33%-50% (the current situation), Single healing a target (not in team) and below the use of QL 143 nano's is worse off as well. Advy or single healing a teamm8 and using QL 143 or higher nano's might indeed increase your healing a little but then again at the cost of the overall at the lower TL's where it's not needed at all.

Set all Single heals at 2 sec refresh, 4 sec cool-down
Set all Teamheals at 2 sec refresh, 5 or 6 sec cool-down

And it would be something worth mentioning and a real increase in speed and healing.

I'll do the rest l8r

Edited OP with 18.7.4.10 changes.

What's your opinion on the heal changes now, Zwelgje?

I haven't looked at test yet, but one thing I mentioned in another thread which seems now a good time to bring up... is low level <200 advy team heals seem a really bad heal range.

Actually, all RK team heals are pretty crappy.

advy seed life - healed for a ridiculous 386-800 or something
MA really bad as well
doc really bad as well
trader - OK!

i'd like to see all RK team heals for all profs get a significantly boosted min damage (approx. 800-900 across the board is good, and max heal of 1100-1300 is reasonable) And offset it with increased cost (if necessary).

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Originally Posted by Scum

Edited OP with 18.7.4.10 changes.

What's your opinion on the heal changes now, Zwelgje?

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Well the lower lvl's have gotten a reduction in there cooldown. More Fair to those lvl's but I still don't like these changes in general. I'll do numbers now for the TOP RK froobable single and team nano's combinations.

A)There are 2 routines,
1) Most efficient cycle = most heal over as little time as possible including the ending of cooldowns and using the cooldowns at there best.
2) Burst heals. More amount of heals in the quickest time as possible (Casting the heal with quickest refresh first, then to other line) but in the long-run it's less HPS due to mismatch of recharges and cooldowns. Most heal is the shortest of times disregarding the remainder of the cooldowns running.

B)Then there is still the problem of healing all team members

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MA (no Zazen) Scenario A1 and A2 are for MA both the same = cast Team then Single (both will end at 10sec cool and be ready to be casted again.) If you switch these you end up with tam heal still in cooldown for 2sec after the single heal opens again. Therefor the most efficient routine in both cases is Team first then Single. Because the overlap of recharge rates do have a substantial effect just casting single heals or just casting team heals isn't much efficient but combining these lines is...

Average Single: 798,5
Average Team: 606
A1 Timed over 10 sec: = 140,45 HPS
A2 Timed upon casting of the second heal (3sec) 7sec = 468,167 HPS

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MA with Zazen (Scenario A1 and A2)

Avg single 1597
HoT singe 2132
Avg Team 1212
HoT Team 794
A1 Timed over 10 sec: = 573,5 HPS <--!
A2 Timed upon casting of the second heal (6sec time when both HoTs end) 4sec cool-down remaining = 955,83 HPS <--!

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Advy, Scenario, If scenario A1 is like the MA = cast Team then Single (both will end at 8sec cool and be ready to be casted again). If you switch these you end up with team heal still in cool-down for 5sec after the single heal opens up again. Therefor the most efficient routine when using both lines is Team first then Single. * However, Using only single heals is the best. Because the refresh of the heal lines is slow at 3 sec (still unknow why MA and Doc's are 2sec on the Single heals and ours are not...) Therefore, out waiting the cooldown for 1sec is the most efficient heal routine there is. (You'll see this for the doc as well) This happens when the gap between refresh and cool-downs are getting neglectable or the heal amount, recharge and cooldown of the other heal-line is that much unfavourable that you just might as well ... Think about skipping team heals entirely.

Avg Single 945
Avg Team 602
A1 Team first then Single over a duration of 8 sec: = 193,375
A1 Using Single heal twice over a duration of 8 sec: = 236,25 <--!
A2 Using Team first then Single and timed upon casting of the second heal (4sec) 4sec cool-down remaining = 386,75
A2 Using Single heal twice and timed upon casting of the second heal (4sec) 4sec cool-down remaining = 472,5 <--!

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Doc is a bit different because the Team nano's don't have a cooldown. And single heals have a 2 recharge. Making the most use of 2 lines is signle first and then the Team heal. (total of 7sec)

Single avg: 2310 //
Team: avg: 727,5
A1 Using Single and Team over a duration of 7 sec =433,93 HPS
A1 Using Single heal twice over a duration of 8 sec = 577,5 HPS<--!
A2 Using Single first then Team and timed upon casting of the second heal (3sec) 4sec cool-down remaining = 1012,5 HPS
A2 Using Single heal twice and timed upon casting of the second heal (4sec) 4sec cool-down remaining = 1155 HPS<--!


_These are TOP RK froobable numbers. But the trend it similar towards Endgame...
- I'm not sure which place we stand as healers atm, If it comes to burst healing, but without Zazen MA's have caught up nicely to us.
- Then I've not addressed the team heals and healing an entire team capability. This remains the same and therefore is a loss between 33-50%

Simple said, even if we get 100% extra heal efficiency we'd be third healer, behind MA(2nd in Zazen) and Doc(1st). Kinda bad situation for the second best healer in-game only surpassed by a doctor...

Bleh, it's useless anyway, can't understand anything about how things go brainlessly in 18.7.

It's not just that we're said 2nd best healers in character creation, we have tools and can't use them effectively. Why MA got Zazen is above anybody's comprehension, and it's even weirder Advys' side. We've been nerfed everywhere, for no purpose and no reason at all, now it would have been easy to work on the Tree form at least to cope with Zazen but no...

Can't remember my Advys healing after AI... I mean, as a true healer like in pre-SL RK mishes. People got way too much HP anyway, and AI/SL mobs damage is too huge for Solo heals. RK Team heals are 100% useless in every prof as 1/ they're even poorer (SL heals for 1/3 less than OWN and has a ridiculous min/med) 2/ there are no team dmg situations.

It's quite funny to see how our heals are supposed to take us 2nd place, and barely can cope with the damage from monster in your range. My latest full exp adv is 82 atm, she can take two mobs of her level (maxed BM/MM/nanopool, so you can expect how gimp she is elsewhere), but this requires heal spamming, not much space for an already low DD. And of course, sit and drink after every fight. Woohoo, dat fun !

We would need a heal above BoL with SSL reqs, TMoK/MoK style... Didn't read of any. Didn't read of any work on the Tree form, 9 heal eff is...9% of crap is just 109% crap. Well, immobile crap ! Dragon is nowhere near a tank, shall be between Enf and Soldier, is worse than Keeper. Wolf is just a ugly non-flying Reet. I play 100% L33T but that's just me, and I love crits/hiding/mezzing. I'm less fond of having an axe going off my head though. Cat is the way, DD only, and you must enjoy playing a rigid cube of 1980' pixels or from a throat with tooth as a GUI. And the vomiting moves... I basically don't care, but at least it had some team purpose before.

We're the masters of shapeshifting, of stances. But MAs got Zazen... Gimme your hands for facepalms please. Well, the good point is we now use cat and dragon only ! (joking of course)

There's huge but easy (re)work to get us where we deserve, 2nd best at everything. We're "fine" but certainly not op, certainly not balanced even. And that's from somebody who concentrates about the pure nerf of our forms and not the "desired in teams" side I think is irelevant, so I can feel how some are frustrated. Crazy to see how some agents and MAs are complaining...

As a sidenote... Saw 3 (THREE !!!!) 220 advies yesterday. In Bore, at the same time. And not even AFK ! Crazy. Might even have seen Scum in BS lately =D My 82 was once in ToTW with a 60 lately and teamed a fellow drood at Nasc Hecks, while my 150 teamed with one on S10 Gen. Basically I saw more active Advies than any other profs, almost on par with Traders (Raggy \o/ =)

It's still 100 times less than MPs (prooving how easy it was to balance and revive profs...), but I guess we're ok eventually. If only we got the love we deserve too, what's easy without even unbalancing pvp.

At least with bazillions of MP pets your map feels like there are lots of people playing...


Don't feel sad Zwelgje, almost every demand was granted in 18.7.4, just stand strong for a .5.

"Reaver, Blunt Mastery, Edged Mastery, and Bone Crusher will require the first perk to execute for further perks to be used; these initial perks should land more often."

I'm not at all happy about this. I really thought we were done with this kind of mandatory perkchaining.

on a different note, looks like it'll take me a month or 2, or 3, to even get used to all this, so many of these things are burnt into my muscle memory from playing adv for 10 years. good or bad, yet to be seen, I do see a few neat little opportunities IF things work as they're intended, then again, if everything else has changed as much...I really don't have a clue anymore.

scum-"my hatred of the level locks on the weapon buffs grows stronger with each passing day. "
this is an issue someone needs to push. i have to add that i feel the same way about mid level adv pistol locks, mainly IS/merc
weapons.

So I had trouble healing my TEAM last night during a Ipande raid with the spiders and beast AoE nuking. With the curent 6ish second I lost 2 members, and that's with activly using Bio-coon heal and Awakening as well. I see dead people more with the proposed cooldown incomming....

Just an example...

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Originally Posted by RedWatr

on a different note, looks like it'll take me a month or 2, or 3, to even get used to all this, so many of these things are burnt into my muscle memory from playing adv for 10 years. good or bad, yet to be seen, I do see a few neat little opportunities IF things work as they're intended, then again, if everything else has changed as much...I really don't have a clue anymore.

scum-"my hatred of the level locks on the weapon buffs grows stronger with each passing day. "
this is an issue someone needs to push. i have to add that i feel the same way about mid level adv pistol locks, mainly IS/merc
weapons.

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I know the feeling but I've added 3 more hot bars and actually am switching morphs during PvM raids, or in PvP... However, the stacking of two morph specials is still hard to pull off (am playing without keybinds here still).

As to the Weapon lock's, these have been pointed out but I guess FC won't budge on that as it seems. I guess. (only hypothetical) because some other profession have the same kinda lock's on there weapon skills too. But I guess our request would counts for there’s as well...

Overall, I'm more and more feeling the impact of the current changes and the feel we've more "specific" rolls in each Morph. And the nerf attached to each of them, reaching new and different limits. However, personally I like these changes more and more for there uniqueness and quick adaptive play style. True, a lot of room for improvement but still it's actually growing on me..

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Originally Posted by appolonia

Don't feel sad Zwelgje, almost every demand was granted in 18.7.4, just stand strong for a .5.

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I'm not, and I will ;-) Every profession has gotten a lot of Leeway (Hiya roomm8) with Mitch, however on some changes "they "just don't make the time to clarify why that route has been taken. Buggs me from time to time and all we can do is address these issues and motivate why these should be reworked.

As part on this heal issue (are we the only few that see it coming?) the rest of the community is in a high tranquilic state and not venting at all (I'm even actively approaching people for there opinion in game O.o you guys are making me work hard...) . Or people might be still numb from all the new stuff and playing there tons of other toons as well (and more to there satisfaction :S).

However these nano changes are coming to an end eventually, and my guess is SOON, if not addressed now this might not be addressed again for a long-time. And with respect for Mitch, that might not be with the leeway we currently have on giving input and getting things changed....

So, imho these heals (especially) team heals, should be looked at. the current proposal on TL isn't working as well.
An extra END game version would be nice to see the light of day, single heal most likely.
And perhaps a counter part of the Zazen in the morph of a Tree (Current tree is even worse then pre 18.7) and a 50% effective Morph but able to move: Rafter!!! (Oh I still would LUV that one)

PS if I haven't approached you yet in-game, but are reading this.. Post your concerns.... Thank you for reading.

To be honest, I've hardly played my 3 advies lately because the role change undid the reasons I rolled mine. I don't have a working testlive client so I can't really comment on the how the heal changes affect actual gameplay. I'm farily disillusioned with adv healing anyway because of Zazen and I've actually gone and made an MA to see what that's like. That and the 3 very different docs I'm focusing on atm.

I suppose that's telling in and of itself. Adv healing has become about like Trader healing: nice in an emergency when the Doc/MA dies and someone remembers the adv has heals.

k the latest update .11

Both the Single and team heals have a recharge of 3 sec now. For the team version this is 1sec faster then the previous patch and a step towards the right direction. Still in respect of healing capability there is a lot to work on as we are far behind the second best healer spot atm. I'm keeping hopes that there might be a morph for healing purposes in the near future.

All Morph aura's are now instant castable. A big improvement but now the fact is that you might as well push for collapsing the morph and respectable aura into one. Either way the casting speed is a big improvement.

I'm all for Tree being given more drastic heal boosts á la Zazen, at a slightly greater DPS cost (that root is already a huge nerf). Either that or the Root being turned into a Snare that means whilst you can't go bounding off to pew towers in DB2, you can sidestep fire on the floor in DB3.

So, hmm, doesn't "team and single heals in different nanolines" mean we shall be able to cycle them, like in "CD on X heal doesn't affect Y" ?... Why would I EVER use any of the ultra crappy team heals ? Are they aimed at being hots you regularly cast ? What's the potent benefit of casting ridiculous solo heals 1 sec faster ?

As you said, all the 18.7 is soon to be closed, so we won't get any improvement. Things are the same in any MMO, too bad this time it felt on Advy.

Whatever, it's their game, we agree to the eula everyday, and we keep on paying outrageous price, they'd be stupid not to use us as doormats. It's 500% clear now, if we ever needed any reminder.

For now I won't come back here and feed such spinelessness, incompetence, lack of vision, treachery, just to be frustated and infuriated. I'll just enjoy the time remaining, with other profs than Advy of course since it's about ENJOYING. I'm quite aware nobody cares, but anyway, sheeps still get the right to bleat, and it's been 14 years.

Good luck Zwelgje, and thanks for this long run.

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Originally Posted by appolonia

sheeps still get the right to bleat.

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I'll be a sheep with you if you want?

We can bleat together. Baaaa aaaa aa

I personally think goats are cooler, w/e

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Originally Posted by appolonia

So, hmm, doesn't "team and single heals in different nanolines" mean we shall be able to cycle them, like in "CD on X heal doesn't affect Y" ?... Why would I EVER use any of the ultra crappy team heals ? Are they aimed at being hots you regularly cast ? What's the potent benefit of casting ridiculous solo heals 1 sec faster ?

As you said, all the 18.7 is soon to be closed, so we won't get any improvement. Things are the same in any MMO, too bad this time it felt on Advy.

Whatever, it's their game, we agree to the eula everyday, and we keep on paying outrageous price, they'd be stupid not to use us as doormats. It's 500% clear now, if we ever needed any reminder.

For now I won't come back here and feed such spinelessness, incompetence, lack of vision, treachery, just to be frustated and infuriated. I'll just enjoy the time remaining, with other profs than Advy of course since it's about ENJOYING. I'm quite aware nobody cares, but anyway, sheeps still get the right to bleat, and it's been 14 years.

Good luck Zwelgje, and thanks for this long run.

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well...I love adventurer, I even play(ok, not currently) a melee adv....so, I try to stay current on stuff nown then, just in case I come back, which I've done a few times...meh, screw it...I read your post, and it depressed me, it chilled that warm spot in my heart for my most played toon (550ish in game hours iirc)...ok, ok, LSS..you're just a morbid, depressing person, please go away ><

...I will not be "bleating" with you.


P.S. - I noticed that adv is not one of the profs listed in your sig...I'm sure that means nothing at all tho... Oo

Advies can still buff perception...

Only, just not as much as fixers.

Oh, how the tables have turned :(

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Originally Posted by RedWatr

P.S. - I noticed that adv is not one of the profs listed in your sig...I'm sure that means nothing at all tho... Oo

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And by telling me to go away, you summoned me ! My EMO skillz will depress ya !!!

Anyway... Did you edit a 2 yo post of yours, or react to a 2 yo post of mine ? Because, you know, saying you won't be bleating (while still writing 100% nonsense stuff) with somebody who wrote this post 2 years ago... is kinda morbid and depressing. Do you see dead people ?

Well, I'm sure that means nothing at all, though.

PS1 : Pal, if you live in a world where, though not playing a class (as you imply I did), you'd still be posting it this class' forum, quoting your alts of this class and experiences, with such relevance and involvment, I understand while you feel things - or beings - are morbid and depressing ^^

PS2: Oh, and, maybe you missed the part about "I'll ENJOY the time remaining, with OTHER profs THAN advy of course since it's about ENJOYING"... And all the rest. You know, you can change your sig, and all. Tell me about "bleating" =)

PS3: Thx for pulling me into writing here again, and feeling morbid and depressing =) AAaaaah, the good old days !

PS4 : You might know about women, and the fact we get one week out of four when we *can* be VERY morbid and depressing, too bad when I read FC' lies those days =) *kisses !*

PS5 : Damn, now I don't want to leave this beloved forum :/

PS6 : Hey Knucky =)

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Originally Posted by appolonia

PS6 : Hey Knucky =)

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I'm playing AO again!

Hello forum denizen, your visitation rights are ... now! enjoy your time here. The nostalgia is contagious.

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Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich

Advies can still buff perception...

Only, just not as much as fixers.

Oh, how the tables have turned :(

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Both professions can cast +240 Perception buffs on others.
On themselves, Adventurers get a scaling perception buff that goes far past this.
I don't see any tables turned.