Get rid of AR template over 1k for profs

One thing thats really silly is how a trader with over 3k AR only has an effective AR of about 1.3k whilst other profs Solds, MAs etc have an effective AR of 3k.

The template for AR which determines how much you hit for is making some profs damage way way over others. Sure make something which allows certain professions to hit harder but not via an AR template. The difference should not be as much.

If a 220 trader used the same shotgun as a 200 soldier, the 200 soldier would be hitting as hard as me if I hit with 3k AR and they have 1.3k. There is something really wrong here and it needs to be addressed.

I used trader and sold in the example but you can substitute neglected prof v lovechild prof.

Soldiers get nerfed over 1k along with everyone else.

Well, there are different AR nerf template...

but it's quite stupid to ask for same DD between DD profs and support profs ...

"Support profession" is such a meaningless term. Is a trader or MP a support profession if nobody actually wants them for their support abilities? No, they're just DDers, and substandard ones to boot.

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Originally Posted by drainbamage

"Support profession" is such a meaningless term. Is a trader or MP a support profession if nobody actually wants them for their support abilities? No, they're just DDers, and substandard ones to boot.

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we need to stop calling them "support" vs "dd" professions and separate them as "good" and "worthless".


i.e. doc/enf/crat/sold/shade = good
everyone else = worthless.


will make threads like this much more easy to manage as gridpain's post becomes

"Well, there are different AR nerf template...

but it's quite stupid to ask for same DD between good profs and worthless profs ... "

:)

Nobody recruits a trader for his damage. A trader gets recruited only for support services or for Sacrifice in DD teams.

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Originally Posted by drainbamage

"Support profession" is such a meaningless term. Is a trader or MP a support profession if nobody actually wants them for their support abilities? No, they're just DDers, and substandard ones to boot.

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it comes down to the fact that most profs people class as "support" have tools beyond straight up damage that most DD's have and thus there damage is lowered to take those tools into account.

Now wether those tools are strong enough to warrant the reduction or not is another question.

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Originally Posted by Xenotric

it comes down to the fact that most profs people class as "support" have tools beyond straight up damage that most DD's have and thus there damage is lowered to take those tools into account.

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Which falls apart when you consider that the professions with the most valuable support abilities (Bureaucrat, Soldier) also just happen to have good damage capabilities.

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Now wether those tools are strong enough to warrant the reduction or not is another question.

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It's not a question at this point.

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Originally Posted by Malraux

Nobody recruits a trader.

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Fixed

Dont get rid of it at all, the DD would skyrocket! But at least take another look on then. Seriously, I think I get... hmmmm w00ping +10 damage from +1.3k AR over 1k on my MP.

It could certainly use a rework.

These templates served some purpose in the past. But the concept of having seperate teamplates for different profession types is very outdated, years have passed and AO professions have evolved from classic RPG types (Monk, Druid, Mage, Paladin, etc) into MMO archetypes , which are basicallly Heal, Tank, Damage and Hybrid.

The whole mechanic was also definitely never intended for today's 3.5k AR ranges.

As it is some professions can have high crit weapons and crit with them for less then Enf would do with regular hit. Which is ridicolous.

Yeah I look at greed and think "Wow awesome crits!" but they are only marginally higher than my shades :/

Anyways, AR templates arent the only way to modify damage. Soldiers will still have their specials and superior perks over traders.

Traders specifically need a rework of their template though. I believe MPs, crats, and doctors are in the same boat as them. MPs/crats have other sources of damage, pets, decent nukes.. Traders only have their weapon, a decent crit chance, but only a 1k nuke... boosting the traders AR template to at least the same as an engi would make sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Gridpain

Well, there are different AR nerf template...

but it's quite stupid to ask for same DD between DD profs and support profs ...

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Where did i say all profs should do the same DD however the difference shouldn't be as huge. There are many things that determine the damage output as Kuegen said which allow for higher DD profs and lower but the difference shouldn't be 1 shade/sold/MA/engie etc > 2 traders.

As AR increased and is increasing this template is getting way out of wack. I have a 220 shade and 220 enf as well as trader. Trader takes so long to kill stuff compared to the others, the others even have better defence so its not a trade off DD or defence.

is it a thread to unnerf TL7 traders (and MP) ?

or a thread about a modification that would raise DD of ALL proffs ... including some that really dont need...

Its a thread to remove the template and correct a mistake by way of deciding how much damage a prof should be able to achieve and with their weapons/perks/skills rework it to allow that.

In my opinion the range should be maximum 30% highest DD to lowest. I dont think trader should be lowest DD but somewhere in the middle as defence isn't that great.

They could maybe start by reducing the nerf from 1/6 to something higher 1/4 or higher for profs nerfed the most.

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Originally Posted by -Barg-

In my opinion the range should be maximum 30% highest DD to lowest.

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30% less than "enough" still enough? i think it is.

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Originally Posted by Kuegen

.... MPs/crats have other sources of damage, pets, decent nukes..

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LOL at MPs having a decent nuke. Or decent pets. Just... LOL

AR nerf is silly. perhaps there could be some other way to keep damage in control, like buffing armor or make AR scale bad in all stages of game without 1 hard line.
there still would be damage difference between professions because of profession abilities, self-buffs and perks.

The AR templates are a red herring. Even if traders suddenly switched to a top tier template, they'd get, what, a couple hundred extra DPS at most? Their damage would still be miserable.

If traders are to do decent or better damage they will need actual toolset support for it.

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Originally Posted by drainbamage

The AR templates are a red herring. Even if traders suddenly switched to a top tier template, they'd get, what, a couple hundred extra DPS at most? Their damage would still be miserable.

If traders are to do decent or better damage they will need actual toolset support for it.

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Without template

With template

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Originally Posted by -Barg-

Without template

With template

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thx for these exemples...

obvisouly, 9k crits / 3.6k reg on 10k AC is completly OP.

So you just proved that FC should NOT get rid of templates of ver 1 k.