18.7.0.24 TL, New Rihwen nano reqs.

First, new nano reqs for higher tier Rihwen;

Spawn Pet if
On Self:
Must have no other regular pet. and
Matter Crea from 3045 and
Time&Space from 3040
Spawn Pet if
On Self:
Must have no other regular pet. and
Matter Crea from 2545 and
Time&Space from 2540

I'm testing Opi MP at TL, was good with both bow & shield, now i decided to try new tiers of rihwen so i changed setup, casted 2.5k req one (which is lvl 223), but noway i can cast 3050 req. one, even with highest phulaks and wrangle i'm sitting at 2900ish skills,

Lets say we're able to cast it with few more swaps then we'll become new engineers/keepers curently at live, swap234987 item, cast pet, put items back. And ofcourse this makes us must to use shield, not bow.

Reducing highest tier's reqs. around 2800ish makes both bow/shield/(put any other weapon you use here) viable again.

That was my 2cents :)

PS: Sorry for my English and this whining thread :)

EDIT 1-
For who wonders dmg of Rihwen atm (2.5k req. one)

DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 4718 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 4230 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 7066 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 5026 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 2970 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 4666 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 4682 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 3378 points of poison damage.

I'de be more interested in seeing how it does against a high ac target, try the punching bug please.
Also, there goes my idea to change into trox for more hp i guess :)

Does it also seem to scale on hp?

I think kind of the point with the highest nano req rihwen is focused for those who don't use bow or other weapons, but is mainly nano focused. :) Been so long since i played my mp but i think he easily had over 3k.

Ao skill emu might be a little off, but i'm getting 3045 mc / 3044 ts in a max setup without contracts or towers with a full blowout nanofocused setup as a nanomage, assuming i could actually get a drop of ql 300 phulaks and ql 300 nano control unit.

And then when you almost broken your back popping that pet and you're back in fighting gear as an efort to stay above 2k ar for your weapons you realize that you need about 2400-ish mc/ts to keep it actually working for you (non-oe) :)

I think that's a bit too much to ask for here Michi :)

Tier 2 at 2400 then tier 3 at 2700-ish would be more sane, unless i'm supposed to perk reset and have a few different sets of ai armor every time i need to buff top pet, eh?

I could also point at engis and ask why we have to jump thru these hoops and can't have ubermonkey (tier 3) at ai dog/widowmaker reqs.

could we also perhaps get different color of diff tiers? Like the green one for level 220 pet, blue-ish or black for tier2 and red or something in that direction for tier 3 ?

high ac test :

DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2801 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 3063 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2801 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 4455 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 3063 points of poison damage.

also i manage to hit 3070ish skill at live, but with phulaks, 300 ncunit, creator module, infused & normal nano ench. and reanim cloak, i'm missing some int/psy researches anyway.

I still think that any skill req. over 2.8k even nano focused is too high.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nanoforcer

could we also perhaps get different color of diff tiers? Like the green one for level 220 pet, blue-ish or black for tier2 and red or something in that direction for tier 3 ?

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I wanted to do something like this, but time became a constraint. The 3 versions of the pets are unique monsters, so it will be easy to give them new looks, when I can get some new textures.

All i need is an org invite+153 wrangle..and I can actually start seeing this new rihwen in action :D

Ok..casted the lil bugger..

Not that much of an upgrade from the tier 2 one.. but this is what tier 3 does on the high ac punching boob

The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 3191 points of poison damage.
The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 5365 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 4654 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 2905 points of poison damage.
The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 2639 points of poison damage.
The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 2639 points of poison damage.
The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 3191 points of poison damage.

I've never played an endgame mp before..so i very well could be missing a buff..but using Channel rage / PT / Improved instill / Enraged / High chant

Heres the low ac punching boob for lols

The Rihwen hit Punching Bag for 4773 points of poison damage.
The Rihwen hit Punching Bag for 5701 points of poison damage.
The Rihwen hit Punching Bag for 8471 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
The Rihwen hit Punching Bag for 5569 points of poison damage.
The Rihwen hit Punching Bag for 7443 points of poison damage. Critical hit!

Rihwen = pet level 225 btw

for the 500 extra nanoskills needed to cast this one..I think his hotdog fingers need to turn into scissor fingers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AstorethX

high ac test :

DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2801 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 3063 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2801 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 4455 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 3063 points of poison damage.

also i manage to hit 3070ish skill at live, but with phulaks, 300 ncunit, creator module, infused & normal nano ench. and reanim cloak, i'm missing some int/psy researches anyway.

I still think that any skill req. over 2.8k even nano focused is too high.

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Personally I dont think its that bad..swap everything..cast a monster of a rihwen and just dont go below 2.4k nanoskills..im assuming michi had in mind for only the ''endgame'' mps with most nanoskill items ava to them to use it..not someone who got powerlvled to 220 in a week..if you get what im saying.

I'm going to make myself unpopular: I don't think the nano reqs should go down for the upgraded Rihwens.

Before you all light the torches and sharpen the pitch forks, please let me explain. The 2545 req Rihwen is a great pet. I've not had time to really test it, and won't until tomorrow, but so far as I can see it's basically the pet I was hoping we'd get. It should have damage close, but not equal, to total engineer or crat pet damage. It's got lots of health. I haven't tested this, but I'm assuming it's got solid AR. If this were the pet upgrade we'd gotten, I'd be really, really happy with it.

The 3,045 req pet is a flat out Kaiju - a monster. If this thing could be summoned by MPs in anything close to normal setups, it'd be overpowered. It can be selfed, theoretically. The best nano-skill setup I can come up with is http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=199937 . According to AO Skill Emulator v2.38, this will give 3,141 MC/TS (cool that it came out exactly even) fully self buffed, including a ql 300 city HQ, ql 300 Mining Operations building and ql 300 org Metaphysics contract.

Of course, if you look at it, that's a terrible setup for anything but casting this one nano. It uses the Foreman's collar for goodness sake. And very few players are going to have a Metaphysics contract to work with. And AI Tech 3 is necessary because you'll need to swap in Strong AI armor of some variety to get enough multi-melee to equip both Phulakterions. It's very, very likely that the best setups won't try for the 3,045 req Rihwen, because the perk (and to a lesser extent gear and IP) sacrifices are just too great. COLI 10/CONC 10/Ancient Knowledge 10/Channel Rage 10/Soothing Spirits 10/Blunt Mastery 10/Starfall 10 and full CM rather than nanoskill armor, with Asp of Titaniush in right hand and Abandonment of the Xan in the left with the 2,545 pet is almost certain to be better DD for instance than setups that can manage 3,045 MC.

It's great though that we finally have a use for the absurd nano-skill levels MPs are capable of.

The only change I'd really like to see with regard to the 3,045 req is a significantly reduced multi-melee requirement for Phulakterions. It won't be fun at all to swap to one set of gear to get the Phulakterions on, swap to a second set of gear to get the Gauntlet shoulder pad back on (most MPs will need the BBQ Shoulder Pillow to equip 2 high QL Phulakterions), then swap to a third nano-skill setup to summon the pet, then swap a fourth time back to the gear you're actually going to play with. It would be really, really nice if an MP who maxed multi-melee (a dark blue skill) could equip 2 QL 300 Phulakterions without having to swap gear - in other words, if the multi-melee req for QL 300 Phulakterions was 897, not 1,210.

Edit: Very dumb arithmetic error corrected.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JustinSane4

According to AO Skill Emulator v2.38, this will give 3,430 MC/TS (cool that it came out exactly even) fully self buffed, including a ql 300 city HQ, ql 300 Mining Operations building and ql 300 org Metaphysics contract. Something is off about that though, because when I added up from my setup in game I got a very different number. Both could self the 3,045 however.

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I'm sorry but is 3430 a typo?
I've been playing in the skill emu myself and managed to just queeze out the reqs for a nanomage in a similar obscene setup.
On a second read i see you're saying something is off, yeah i usually save the config and then restart the app and reload it, the the numbers change... :)

In any case, if the diff between tier 2 and 3 is small like 200 points there is no point in wrecking your toon imo, it's just not warranted damage.
Please do testing when you have the time so we can get some figures on it, i can see that we do have a few figures a few posts above, but it's not that conclusive with low/high ac mobs, also it seems like the little monkey has diff crits for diff weapons as well. Do all weapons scale the same? Does the monkey get more hp with lvl? If so how does it affect HOT? etc etc.

As a bow MP I have some things to say:

• You need to consider that with the faster Tigress you dont need the Eye and R-Hand implants to keep 11s AS, ever though you may keep it if you want better multiplier. Based on it, I just changed my setup to contain Eye and R-Hand symbs and CSS armor. That made me sit with overall 2.5k MC/TS.
• It is not possible to cast it without those symbiants.
• It is possible to cast it with my test bow setup with either +25 Phulaks and 131 wrangle or with 153 umbral wrangle and no phulak at all. Total sacrifice: 3 AI perks.
• P.s.: I'll post my test setup (that I'll sure use live) and my cast kaiju setup.

Thats said. I agree with Justin about the requirements: it should stay. It is a monster we had never dreamed with. I did some practical tests, aka no numbers, and the results were:

• It drops a trader with 3k defenses HP in less than 5 seconds while full drained.
• It toke a NT around 45s (if not more) to kill it.
• It roflstomped Justinsane with dual shields.
• I soloed Scary Spider with it at easy. Some debuffs here and there, swaping healpet when needed. No pet died in the process.
• I soloed Anansi Disciple + 4 Anansi Guardians and 1 Anansi Corset just fine! 3 healpets died in the process.
• I soloed Limnos + 4 Hecklers as a walk in a park. 1 healpet died, cause all hecklers loves healpet.

My preliminary tests says it is OP. But balanced considering the requirements.

I haven't tested the middle Rihwen too much but it damage template is really similar to uber Rihwen. First has 2.5k min damage per hit while second has 2.6k min damage per hit. The diference may lay in HP, HD and AR. I'll check again Scary Spider with middle ones today.

P.s.: Phulaks mm requirements should be lessened :o It is suposed to be a easy to equip thing (I think).

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EDITED STUFF BELOW

Since it is on first page, I gonna take my time to sumarise some stuff we have been discussing here. AKA, helpfull informations.

• Damage tests on High AC Punchbag.
• Curious weapon templates on new Rihwen
• HP of all three Rihwen
• Setups used to cast Top Rihwen
• AR calculations and Stress DD test on all 3 Rihwen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Poko

I've never played an endgame mp before..so i very well could be missing a buff..but using Channel rage / PT / Improved instill / Enraged / High chant

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Did you have weapon enhancement and aggressive construct empowerment?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nanoforcer

I'm sorry but is 3430 a typo?

On a second read i see you're saying something is off, yeah i usually save the config and then restart the app and reload it, the the numbers change... :)

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Found the bug. Double counting nano-skills from symbs, in both equipment and implant columns. As you said, closed and re-loaded and was able to straighten it out. The post has been updated with correct (and much more sane looking) numbers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lainbr

As a bow MP I have some things to say:

• It roflstomped Justinsane with dual shields.
  

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True, but that TL character was in betas and junk equipment at the time, and I was doing nothing to heal - no first aid, heal perks, heal pet, sitting down for heal delta, etc. It's not going to roflstomp dual SoZ MPs in game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JustinSane4

True, but that TL character was in betas and junk equipment at the time, and I was doing nothing to heal - no first aid, heal perks, heal pet, sitting down for heal delta, etc. It's not going to roflstomp dual SoZ MPs in game.

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:p Zomg. I know that. But dual Szet is still a lot of defenses. And it hits! Live Rihwen woudnt land a hit at all.

***From Psikie***

I tested the middle pet without trouble. I plan to do some swaps and test out the top tier pet tonite. All my testing will be using unbuffed pet vs high ac dummy. I want to say my normal setup I am at 2400 ish nano skills. So going full scouts and using alba nano enhancers I think 3k is around the corner to test top pet. I also agree IF it is as nasty as I think it will be the reqs should stay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lainbr

It drops a trader with 3k defenses HP in less than 5 seconds while full drained.

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This was me.

I used all 4 drains which would theoretically drop the AR of the target by 1150 (275/275/300 and 300 AAD to the Trader), on the 3k Tiig and it was still hitting 80% of the time.

The thing is a literal beast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raggy

This was me.

I used all 4 drains which would theoretically drop the AR of the target by 1150 (275/275/300 and 300 AAD to the Trader), on the 3k Tiig and it was still hitting 80% of the time.

The thing is a literal beast.

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Plunder and Deprive don't debuff AAO any longer, so those debuffs don't do anything to pets or mobs other than debuff nano-skills (which doesn't help against Rihwen). So only the 300 AAD/-300 AAO were helping you there. Traders have vastly better defensive debuffs against players than against monsters.

Well, looks like my MP will officially be retired. S42 never runs when I can make it these days, I don't have the IPR to swap to a different weapon, and pistols require too many perks for me to be able to cast even the 2.5k reqs pet. With a full set of alphas, all but helm of ql300 CS, and swapping to nano research hud, I'll be 5 points off on MC. Maybe if I can make enough S42s in the future to get more IPRs I'll play him again.