by this logic I could sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Moonbolt
"Shade DD perks are defensive because they make the person go away and not hit me anymoar"
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by this logic I could sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Moonbolt
"Shade DD perks are defensive because they make the person go away and not hit me anymoar"
+ points for trolling skills.... notcrattey
You're only saying this because you can't make a decent rebuttal against the logical fallacy I found your argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbolt
well everyone has heard that sometimes the best defence is offence.... but thats not the point at all when ur discussing offence / defence in a game. anyhow thats hardly a topic i feel like discussing atm so.... gg nice trolling.
That's a philosophical point of view not to be put into whatever literal context you want it to apply to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbolt
Maybe at 220, but:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbolt
- Your target's defenses are in a lot of cases disabled due to drains.
- At TL5 a proper trader can actually alphakill a fully twinked fixer with Acro up (AS, Easy Shot, Nano Feast and a lucky Fling)..
- Even lower levels.. well, you know how it goes lol. Twink a sicko weapon in thanks to drainladdering and pewpew!
Btw, a Shield MP definitely has less offense than a trader..
Rihwen is kinda low on AR but i doubt its that low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupusceleri
As far as the offence of a trader, I'm planning on rolling one for 170. So far, in defensive setup (and drains running) there will be a little over 2200 AR and more perk attacks than a soldier has. At 220, there's screenshots of traders with over 3700 AR.
Then you see 170agent and before you panic press SS you realize that you were WTF1234INSTASPLATTEDQuote:
Originally Posted by Captian
Your point, Cap?
ps. As for having more perk attacks...i got a weird feeling that you're calling things such as 'Bloodletting' [i]perk attacks[/]
Mostly because people dont upp the nanoskills needed to pop it enough to counter the drains?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupusceleri
Highly questionable..Rihwen, MIMQ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupusceleri
My point is that people are saying that traders don't have an offense, when in reality they have a fairly good offense. You are quite right though, I am referring to "Bloodletting" as a perk attack, however if you're not considering that a good enough perk attack (and I'm only comparing to soldier because it's something I know pretty well) then you shouldn't count half the perks soldiers have (in assault rifle setup). For example, weapon bash has a VERY low chance to stun and only does lke 58 dmg in pvp, clip fever is an aoe that has a long recharge and does maybe 200 dmg in pvp. One of our only DD perks, contained burst has a really long recharge and you have to pair it with another perk for it to do decent dmg (roughly 1.5k in pvp). Compared to a soldiers offensive, a trader has roughly the same (being that they have a fairly low recharge on AS) offensive as a soldier with a lot more evades and heals.
I didnt say they dont have an offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captian
I said that, even despite the high ar, they have got barely any decent offensive tools.
Not including ALL special attacks that soldiers seem to use? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Captian
Traders have a good offense if you give them time to get it (ignore them) and in that case you deserve to die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captian
Agents, Advies, Enforcers , NT's have good offense (alpha).Quote:
Originally Posted by Captian
You can't use that if you are rooted!Quote:
Originally Posted by boltgun
True, i can confirm that once a toon is rooted its game over. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagalot
^ This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koizumi
This thread just comes across as a "i want immunity to everything" rant...soldiers do well against some, badly against others, thats how it should be.
my biggest "issue" with traders is not so much their drains and cc. its their fast recharging heavy hitting AS. that much crippling + that much damage is a bit over the top.
let traders have a solid AS, but make the recharge 40 seconds or more. or let them have a fast AS but have it hit for a lot less. shotgun + AS is almost as funny as pistol + AS.
Issue still persists at low level, trader drains do need looking at. Im not talking about massive number changes, or any radical locks/big cool downs on them, just small changes that make them less OP at lower levels (if you say they arent, then its kinda ignorant). As for Tl5/higher drains i would ask for something to come with the drains to make them think twice about stacking them. Maybe after one drain is cast, it is harder to land the next. Gives the opponent a small chance of recovering before being rendered useless.
Perhaps they are perfect in some people's view, in my eyes they are nearly perfect. I say this because if i was drained on my fixer at tl5, i could stand there not getting hit until i got out of there to find a place to remove the debuffs. So i appreciate they can be a defensive tool rather than offensive.
o man, it's worse the lower you go. you get into the negatives at lower tl's, aint that fun.