Review: Melle professions

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Apr 12th, 2007, 12:26:42
Falconed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rktim

Yeah i totaly agree... I have to say that i love seeing keepers everywhere whining about how gimped they are now.. But if you go to the keeper foorums you can find a whole bunch of posts from keepers saying that there still can PvP and be good at it:
"I just ignore the ranged profs (i.e. fixers/soldiers unless I'm in a team), pop defences as they're needed. Alpha any enfo's and bad adv's, and MP's and NT's, low docs, shades that I can perk, etc I see, pop coon, cap points while /disco and 3 people are trying to kill me. With gsf/rrfe unless they can successfully keep me rooted/snared I can do a great job of surviving. And ofc, run away if the alpha fails."
- Mar 19th 2007

Damn they have found our forums. We have to be more careful now on. Lub playing keeper tho, instakilling everyone with the perk which hits four times 4O% of my enemys health and never getting killed although cocoon is somewhat useless now. At least we have these hjeels that sometimes need an hour to get recharged. Go that.

The thing isn't here just that keepers are again whining about the continent that last few patches have given 'em (they are great, tbh), it's about melee proffs having disadvantage in pvp. BS, for example is pretty much a dream place where a ranged unit can farm anyone and run away w/ gsf etc never fearing melee coming after. The comparison above is quite an eye opener because when every ranged use specials doing dmg, melee has to go near the target and to be able to perk him. If perks land, they sure are a good alpha, but if don't (which some proffs have all the time resistance) we don't do dmg at all.

Much have said alr and won't bother myself to write all of em down again.

EDIT:: just read what the quote was about. it obviously tells everyone that melees pwn ranged. But let's not talk about melee vs. ranged, it is too far away from the original topic. Oh wait..
Apr 12th, 2007, 13:03:34
Lukesays

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGoal

Because I can't choose between 1 min recharge perks which do capped hits and 11 sec recharge perks which might not cap but cap most of the time.

Either you care about damage over time, or you don't. If 11sec AS is so great, why don't keepers strap on an arbalest or something (The skills for engi, doc, crat etc are just as blue)? Clearly 2he is worth something to them.
Apr 12th, 2007, 13:15:02
Loucretia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukesays

Either you care about damage over time, or you don't. If 11sec AS is so great, why don't keepers strap on an arbalest or something (The skills for engi, doc, crat etc are just as blue)? Clearly 2he is worth something to them.

Maybe because they dont think melee profs should need to use AS?? Also engi, doc, crat etc arent defined by their weapon like keeper/agent/sold etc so they can choose to spend as much ip and use as many items for AS as they wish (insofar as they have it available).
Apr 12th, 2007, 13:24:41
Lukesays

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loul

Maybe because they dont think melee profs should need to use AS??

Lol, you think they wouldn't make a good upgrade because of weird rp convictions? Maybe some, but the serious pvpers would use the best weapon. "I'm not putting on that kyr rapier- I don't support the killing of intelligent organisms that we can't communicate with!"

Quote:

Also engi, doc, crat etc arent defined by their weapon like keeper/agent/sold etc so they can choose to spend as much ip and use as many items for AS as they wish.

1) sol can use basically any ranged wep by IP, they pick the one that is the best.
2) agent has light blue rifle, just like engi has light blue pistol/grenade, doc has light blue MA/pistol etc.
Apr 12th, 2007, 13:48:04
Zeelander

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_1

As melee proff, the thing that fills my screen mostly is "You can not use this attack since your opponent is too far away...". I see the enemy at 1-2m from me, but still i cant hit specials, i cant hit even normal hits, i cant use all perks either. I can just guess where the enemy might be and run like headless chicken. Then i see him warp to 20m to some direction, i run there and same thing happens. This wastes most times 10 seconds or more, and i havent got even single hit in (or even tried to hit target). So many times i dont have even a fair chance to try to kill anything except in mech or turret or using AS. And that is the thing ppl are trying to say here i think.

Suggested this in another thread, but think it is worth mentioning again. Make ranged specials, AS,FA and so on, require you to stand still to recharge. A simple fix to the sync problem. No more kiting melee professions, at least not while landing specials on them. I don't see this affecting the game in any negative way, might change PvM a bit, but nothing that can't be adjusted to.
Apr 12th, 2007, 13:48:55
Loucretia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukesays

Lol, you think they wouldn't make a good upgrade because of weird rp convictions? Maybe some, but the serious pvpers would use the best weapon. "I'm not putting on that kyr rapier- I don't support the killing of intelligent organisms that we can't communicate with!"

1) sol can use basically any ranged wep by IP, they pick the one that is the best.
2) agent has light blue rifle, just like engi has light blue pistol/grenade, doc has light blue MA/pistol etc.

Yes I do. My enf doesnt use AS, mainly because if the system is so pathetic that you have to use AS, I prefer not to bother any more.

Keepers are DEFINED by their 2he weapon. Offhand I cant think of any offensive perks or buffs a keeper has that arent 2he. Docs for example, somewhat like MPs, can pretty much use any weapon, even tho most of them suk, so using an AS weapon is a reasonably valid choice.
Apr 12th, 2007, 13:57:53
Lukesays

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loul

Keepers are DEFINED by their 2he weapon. Offhand I cant think of any offensive perks or buffs a keeper has that arent 2he. Docs for example, somewhat like MPs, can pretty much use any weapon, even tho most of them suk, so using an AS weapon is a reasonably valid choice.

So, you are saying that 2he is the best choice for a keeper, with the knowledge that a big pvp guy could put on a cappable AS gun, even more effectively than a doc/crat (better ar template and dmg add etc.)?
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:03:10
Lumifly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukesays

Either you care about damage over time, or you don't. If 11sec AS is so great, why don't keepers strap on an arbalest or something (The skills for engi, doc, crat etc are just as blue)? Clearly 2he is worth something to them.

So wait. You can see which professions are, by nature, melee professions and you can see which professions are, by nature, ranged professions and you can see which professions are, by nature, able to be in the position to choose anything because everything is 'about equal' in terms of IP distribution.

So why the hell are you telling clearly melee professions that they should be ranged. Stop with this idiotic nonsense. A melee profession should not have to be ranged to be as viable as a ranged profession. In fact, your statement really should open your own damn eyes that melee is underpowered compared to ranged, since you're suggesting melee should be ranged to get that power...

If you think AS is not a problem or a big deal as it's made out to be, then you DO NOT PVP and should not even be posting on the topic.
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:10:09
Lillagumman

I dont think that my crat should have to resort to an AS weapon to do decent in pvp but I have to so go figure..
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:14:41
Lukesays

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumifly

So why the hell are you telling clearly melee professions that they should be ranged. Stop with this idiotic nonsense. A melee profession should not have to be ranged to be as viable as a ranged profession. In fact, your statement really should open your own damn eyes that melee is underpowered compared to ranged, since you're suggesting melee should be ranged to get that power...

Cool, someone replied so I can make my point. Clearly 2he is a better choice than some random AS gun for a keeper. Even the suggestion that a keeper not use 2he as the primary weapon makes me look like a complete idiot. Why? Because melee is not nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be. If melee perks don't compare to ranged specials, it would be a prudent decision to always use as/fa guns. Obviously this isn't the case.
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:18:44
NoGoal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukesays

Either you care about damage over time, or you don't. If 11sec AS is so great, why don't keepers strap on an arbalest or something (The skills for engi, doc, crat etc are just as blue)? Clearly 2he is worth something to them.

Some keepers use a zastaba for 11 sec AS. The main problem going an AS-only route is that, unlike other profs, you don't have any other dmg source. Hitting O every 11 sec is not really funny... Anyway, this thread is not about AS. We all know it's overpowered.
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:22:53
NoGoal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukesays

Cool, someone replied so I can make my point. Clearly 2he is a better choice than some random AS gun for a keeper. Even the suggestion that a keeper not use 2he as the primary weapon makes me look like a complete idiot. Why? Because melee is not nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be. If melee perks don't compare to ranged specials, it would be a prudent decision to always use as/fa guns. Obviously this isn't the case.

Give me teal AS/FA/Rifle skills, some ranged perks and I would. Saying that ranged isn't overpowered because melee stick to melee is nonsense. That's even wrong because most melee PvPers have an AS weapon they can swap when they want.
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:23:27
Kyai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukesays

Cool, someone replied so I can make my point. Clearly 2he is a better choice than some random AS gun for a keeper. Even the suggestion that a keeper not use 2he as the primary weapon makes me look like a complete idiot. Why? Because melee is not nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be. If melee perks don't compare to ranged specials, it would be a prudent decision to always use as/fa guns. Obviously this isn't the case.

Do you even know what your arguing about?
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:28:48
IHaveHugeNick

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGoal

AS does if you don't use a crit reliant weapon but one with decent max dmg.

No it doesnt. You obviously never played ranged proffesion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGoal

Get more HP? NT Triple also does 3 hits in a row and AS/FA can do more than 40% if you have any layer on you.

More then 40% HP? No they cant. Only SnD and Triple can do that.
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:32:14
IHaveHugeNick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loul

Maybe because they dont think melee profs should need to use AS?? Also engi, doc, crat etc arent defined by their weapon like keeper/agent/sold etc so they can choose to spend as much ip and use as many items for AS as they wish (insofar as they have it available).

Can choose? Is the only choice we have to hurt anyone. And it goes with serious nerfing of pvm abilities because there no weapons out there able to perform good in both. You either get pathetic pvm damage or pathetic pvp. With 2he on the other hand...
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:33:57
IHaveHugeNick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekh

I'm really starting to understand why I've seen several people with you on their ignore list...

Its called " i cant take the truth" syndrom.
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:34:50
SSK

so if it's weapon by IP wise decision, crats should use pistol (lighter blue) w/o any special and no single dmg perk (we have just from general lines as all other can have). it would be perfect PvP char! if you want to have advantage over other avg ppl, you must have something extra, not naturaly designed for your char. same goes for SA/dimach/AS, only specials not checking AR vs DR.
Apr 12th, 2007, 14:40:26
Lukesays

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyai

Do you even know what your arguing about?

NBS+triple? I lieu of an actual point.

In case you are wondering, I play a tl7 engi and a tl5 keeper, had a lot more fun on the keeper and got him rookie and a whole lot of vps. Keeper does not use an as gun.
Apr 12th, 2007, 15:00:44
NoGoal

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick

No it doesnt. You obviously never played ranged proffesion.

Obviously .... or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick

More then 40% HP? No they cant. Only SnD and Triple can do that.

Read better.
Apr 12th, 2007, 15:05:13
IHaveHugeNick

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGoal

Obviously .... or not.

Yes, quite obviously. Even agents dont always cap 40%. Not even on leets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGoal

Read better.

No , you write better. No AS nor FA can bypass 40% rule. Layers or absorbs are not your HP.

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