Trader drains Please fix

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Originally Posted by SultryVoltron

This is the balance discussion. It would be well advised of you to take into consideration everything we know about future changes when talking about the current situation.

For example: If FC would just announce how they plan to nerf Advy's perk defenses showing that they recognize the problem and have a viable solution, we could all stop posting in "Nerf Ranged Advy" threads.

Another example: Easy Shot is getting a higher def check, not that it's a strong perk anyways and not that I necessarily agree with the change. Thus, your statement isn't really a good foundation for adjusting drains.

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Now why should I do that when the discussion at hand was about how they are currently? Did you say anything about the ppl that said traders have AS? What, are traders gonna keep AS? You know that for certain? Do you know everything else that's changing?

Again, why argue what is overpowered from just perk docs and all that stuff, since we don't know what else is gonna change? The things that have proposed changes may not even stay like that. So I can make statements abt things I do know about currently

Thus, my statement is fine, wasn't even abt adjusting drains, it's about someone saying "oh traders have the lowest offense ever!!!!!!!" I think it was moonbolt and his oversensationalised crap once again that said that though but still...

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Originally Posted by Frubaliscious

yeah 1700 AR on my 150 trader is so gimp it makes me sad :p guaranteed capping AS, crit fling, and 1 reg crit hit with a gun that has the second best crit in the game is just puny stuff too, don't forget that silly heal that also a nuke, an dthe fact that theres a reason why everyone hates traders when they're standing there with barely enough AR to perk a BY leet, and no chance of healing, casting, with your pets wondering why some nub is asking them to attack, and rooted on top of that... yep, we sux.

then again, let me say this. I am happy as hell traders are around when there's an enf or agents after me ;) /bow

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Your ar is not 1700, when drained it is 1700. Your normal AR would make you sad.

The "nuke" wont be used by any good trader against any good twink. Low hp profession such as a trader don't have time to waste time trying to land stuff that usually is resisted by any decent twink.

If you play 150 trader as you claim, you should be perfectly aware that even with all those things said as exxageratedly as you did, we still get killed all the time on BS.

Against a good NT, such as yourself or few others, there is very little chance of winning with all those "overpowered" stuff in your opinion. What that makes your profession?

Same goes against agents. Against i.e. Siukon, I have very little chance of winning in any duel situation. In BS of course, things are different. Still, he has the capability to alpha me in 4secs even with divest running on him.

You didn't mention anything about our hp. You should always tell about your 5k+hp when you make claims about our situation in the pvp food cycle. Advy, enfo, agent, NT, shade and few others can alpha tl5 trader so easily. Very easily.

I don't feel overpowered at all when I see atrox doc being attacked by 5 people, and completely well surviving. Or stripped NT nuking well geared twinks to bits. Or advy that will always catch you and alphaing you in max gear. Or enfo giving you alphabuttsecks.

hmm, ok maybe we're talking about different things, you see, I'm speaking about open pvp, where we DO always have phat AR, I stay drained the best i can. and I use the hell out of that heal, it DOES land, it DOES heal, esp effective with my lowish hp. you dont always ahve to use it on the person you're fighting, I try targeting a gimped NR prof if there's one around, and I'm fighting someone with decent NR. not sure why this is so hard, I haven't spent all that much time playing trader, but I learn a crapload from the many duels I've had with them on NT. it's not rocket science, adjust to the situation and there's nothing you can't kill.

I mean dude, come on! you made Devie run into a BY how many times last night? what more do you want? oO

Health drains do land on gimps, but not on real twinks, just as you said. That is assuming that there is always everyone around you when you are fighting someone (which is often not the case).

The effective lowish hp is so effective that half of the professions on anarchy online can alpha our hp.

I know how to adjust with trader, believe me. What I am trying to say is that we are not in any way overpowered compared to such professions as enforcer, adventurer,agent, nanotechnician or doctor. Im not wanting more of anything, I just want people to understand that we are not overpowered.

When I completely own s10 farmers on tl5 bs they come here and say "nerf traders, nerf drains", they don't understand that they didn't fight against ordinary trader, they fought against extremely twinked trader who has lot of experience. If the same person would have fought deltaforces, siukon, drsabej00 or any other good twink from different profession category, he would be exactly where he is now, complaining of things that happened only because of the distinct skill and gear difference between the players.

Nerfing the drains in any other way than reducing the duration, would shatter the other parts of the professions aspects of game. This is my opinion and it's based on my personal experience.

Just because everyone hates traders is not a reason to nerf them. "I got pwnt" is not argument on this issue. Drains are absolutely vital for trader as a profession.

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Originally Posted by Weltall

Now why should I do that when the discussion at hand was about how they are currently? Did you say anything about the ppl that said traders have AS? What, are traders gonna keep AS? You know that for certain? Do you know everything else that's changing?

Again, why argue what is overpowered from just perk docs and all that stuff, since we don't know what else is gonna change? The things that have proposed changes may not even stay like that. So I can make statements abt things I do know about currently

Thus, my statement is fine, wasn't even abt adjusting drains, it's about someone saying "oh traders have the lowest offense ever!!!!!!!" I think it was moonbolt and his oversensationalised crap once again that said that though but still...

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yes i said that traders have the least pvp offence... im sorry if u read that as AR or something.
even docs got more pvp offence with Malpractise and Dots and pistol mastery perks and AS.
i wasnt saying that traders were gimped..
i was responding to a post that kill the NT before he kills u by someone that responded to how to defend vs a NT / MP as a trader if nanoskills debuff was removed from drains.
i think u are the one that needs to get ur facts straight before u are callign me oversensational.

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Originally Posted by Moonbolt

yes i said that traders have the least pvp offence... im sorry if u read that as AR or something.
even docs got more pvp offence with Malpractise and Dots and pistol mastery perks and AS.
i wasnt saying that traders were gimped..
i was responding to a post that kill the NT before he kills u by someone that responded to how to defend vs a NT / MP as a trader if nanoskills debuff was removed from drains.
i think u are the one that needs to get ur facts straight before u are callign me oversensational.

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A trader does NOT have less offense than a doc (and no, I don't just mean AR), that is foolish beyond words. Learn to play or something if you believe that.

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Originally Posted by Weltall

A trader does NOT have less offense than a doc (and no, I don't just mean AR

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Wow, did traders suddenly get access to Malp? :rolleyes:
Oh well, ignorance is bliss ;)

Trader's offense is not the problem. Our low hp combined with other professions strong alphas is the main reason why we are getting pwned.

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Originally Posted by Jekonam

Trader's offense is not the problem. Our low hp combined with other professions strong alphas is the main reason why we are getting pwned.

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my post about traders offence is a direct reply to the following posts....

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Originally Posted by Koizumi

Traders drain xx profession's offense/attack abilities....
How do you think will they defend against f.ex NT's or MP's?

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Originally Posted by Mostadio

Kill it before it kills you just like everyone else!

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Originally Posted by Koizumi

Wow, did traders suddenly get access to Malp? :rolleyes:
Oh well, ignorance is bliss ;)

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Wow did traders forget to drain? Oh wait nope it's koiz and his selfproclaimed perkable crat... Drains, roots, SDS, YEEIYF, GTH, CP, IS, ED aren't all offensive? heh... but anyhow go and get perked from everyone on your crat (lol) and pretend like you know anything.

inb4 "but drainz don't do damagezomgz!!!!11"

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Originally Posted by Weltall

snip

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Says the mr. Nobody that knows all about everything and their mother :rolleyes:
Just outta curiosity, are you by any chance a relative of Kink or maybe Ravencrow?
Keep on living in your world of oh ma's are so poor and gimpy and suckier than xxx* (* - insert prof here)...im pretty sure that at least Kink will hug you if you ask him :)

Oh, and just a funny thing i couldnt help but notice...
CP.....an offensive tool... :rolleyes:
Or did you try to list all trader toolset to make it look like you know anything about trader pvp? ;)

Im also pretty sure ALL traders have the xx seconds to easily run and land all this stuff on their targets....well, at least on you :p

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Originally Posted by Weltall

Wow did traders forget to drain? Oh wait nope it's koiz and his selfproclaimed perkable crat... Drains, roots, SDS, YEEIYF, GTH, CP, IS, ED aren't all offensive? heh... but anyhow go and get perked from everyone on your crat (lol) and pretend like you know anything.

inb4 "but drainz don't do damagezomgz!!!!11"

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ur an idiot if u think that is offense.... its traders defence ur talking about here.
drains = defence
roots = defence
SDS = defence
YEEIYF = defence
GTH = defence
CP = defence
IS = offence but doesnt stack with CP

and lol at Eviscerate defence.... it lowers ur NR with a smashing 250 points and is cast capped at 2 secs and has a recharge of 3.5..

lets see how long time all those nanos would take to stack up on a target if there is no resists.

drains = 4 secs and 5 secs recharge each
root = 4.52 secsrecharge
SDS is instant..
YEEIYF = 3 sec recharge
GTH = 1.5 sec recharge
CP = 4 sec recharge

thats 4+5+4+3+1.5+4.5= 22 secs ... and during that time u cant heal urself or cast NBD...
and that is the traders defence were talking about.
if u let a trader have 30 secs to drain u completly ur supposed to die.... working as intended ..... trying to find more ways to say this clearer but hey i cant think of any because those 2 sentances describes the situation fully.

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Originally Posted by Moonbolt

even docs got more pvp offence with Malpractise and Dots and pistol mastery perks and AS.

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Malp requires them to cast and not use their only defense
Same with DoTs
If PM perks are landing on you from a doc reroll
and their AS is laughable compared to most people

Don't downplay your own profession to go to the level that DOCS DOO MOAR OFFENSEEE :'[ this simply isn't true, and anyone fighting a trader and doc would come to this conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Moonbolt

ur an idiot if u think that is offense.... its traders defence ur talking about here.
drains = defence
roots = defence
SDS = defence
YEEIYF = defence
GTH = defence
CP = defence
IS = offence but doesnt stack with CP

and lol at Eviscerate defence.... it lowers ur NR with a smashing 250 points and is cast capped at 2 secs and has a recharge of 3.5..

lets see how long time all those nanos would take to stack up on a target if there is no resists.

drains = 4 secs and 5 secs recharge each
root = 4.52 secsrecharge
SDS is instant..
YEEIYF = 3 sec recharge
GTH = 1.5 sec recharge
CP = 4 sec recharge

thats 4+5+4+3+1.5+4.5= 22 secs ... and during that time u cant heal urself or cast NBD...
and that is the traders defence were talking about.
if u let a trader have 30 secs to drain u completly ur supposed to die.... working as intended ..... trying to find more ways to say this clearer but hey i cant think of any because those 2 sentances describes the situation fully.

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Gotta say, I agree with Moon here... Those things are clearly used for defense, with the exception of roots and GTH having some uses both offensive and defensive.

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Originally Posted by notcrattey

Malp requires them to cast and not use their only defense
Same with DoTs
If PM perks are landing on you from a doc reroll
and their AS is laughable compared to most people

Don't downplay your own profession to go to the level that DOCS DOO MOAR OFFENSEEE :'[ this simply isn't true, and anyone fighting a trader and doc would come to this conclusion.

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u serious?? docs never casting DoTs / Malp in a fight then?
are u counting that in a BS when the doc has constantly 3-4 targets trying to kill him so that he gotta chain heal constantly or do u count that as a 1 vs 1 encounter with most profs.
cause i have several doc friends in this game that manages to find time to Malp and DoT people in BS.

yeh traders has better AS that is true....

and docs not perking anyone with PM perks??
docs are perking the same profs that most other professions are perking.. soldiers docs agents and enfs tho docs might have it rough to perk enfs.

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Originally Posted by Moonbolt

u serious?? docs never casting DoTs / Malp in a fight then?
.

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Did I say never? I was simply saying their offense restricts almost ALL of their defense when using it.

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are u counting that in a BS when the doc has constantly 3-4 targets trying to kill him so that he gotta chain heal constantly or do u count that as a 1 vs 1 encounter with most profs.

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This game isn't balanced 1v1, so what's your point? Also Apply the pressure via damage, use LoS, or something and guess what that doc isn't using malp.

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cause i have several doc friends in this game that manages to find time to Malp and DoT people in BS.

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Yes people who suck, or people who can't damage enough. This is very circumstantial.

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and docs not perking anyone with PM perks??

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Where in my post did I say ANYONE? I said YOU, meaning the TRADER. Of course docs can land it on low evade profs, that's just the natural order of things. However certain profs with an endgame (defensive) equip ie. agents, enfs, traders and anyone who uses acrobat, these perks will not land.

In full, your offense is available to a much more wide variety

as i said.. the doc will perk the same professions as other people perks.... the non acro users.
and basically u just agreed to everything i said... how long do u think a trader lasts in an environment with multiple fighters against him...... i get called on my trader before docs alot of times in BS.... even when im teamed with a doc.

docs main role is to heal other targets and himself.
traders main role is to debuff people.
both classes has realy crappy offence so thats the point i was trying to make.. stop ****ing whining about traders debuffs... thats their main role in pvp.

and yeh i can agree with alot of posts saying that traders are pretty OP at lower TLs. i have a TL 5 trader myself wich i stripped cause it was just plain boring to play.
drains land to easy at TL 5 and the trader AR gets pretty massive at that lvl compared to a 220 traders.
1 of the main reasons for that tho is the ability to cast the nanites in full CSS at that lvl w/o basically any real nanoskills adding items.
if TL 5 traders were forced to use CS insetad of CSS they would be alot more balanced class at TL 5 since they would have far worse recharge on AS and way less AR etc.

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Originally Posted by Moonbolt

if TL 5 traders were forced to use CS insetad of CSS they would be alot more balanced class at TL 5 since they would have far worse recharge on AS and way less AR etc.

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Wait wut?! My 170 trader with just 2 scout parts and rest nodrop armor had 2k Ar when drained , and who needs fast AS recharge ?

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Originally Posted by Koizumi

Says the mr. Nobody that knows all about everything and their mother :rolleyes:
Just outta curiosity, are you by any chance a relative of Kink or maybe Ravencrow?
Keep on living in your world of oh ma's are so poor and gimpy and suckier than xxx* (* - insert prof here)...im pretty sure that at least Kink will hug you if you ask him :)

Oh, and just a funny thing i couldnt help but notice...
CP.....an offensive tool... :rolleyes:
Or did you try to list all trader toolset to make it look like you know anything about trader pvp? ;)

Im also pretty sure ALL traders have the xx seconds to easily run and land all this stuff on their targets....well, at least on you :p

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All of those things are offensive, you foolish child. Would you consider something like (e)NSD not part of a MP's offense?

Just because it doesn't do any actual damage doesn't mean it's not an offensive action.

And as for your CP comment, yep, lowering my AR by 350 is an offensive action.

no its not an offencive action... lowering ur AR with 350 AR is a defencive action..
i dont know how to spell it out clearer then that... enabling to kill someone or to deal dmg to someone is an offencive ability...
using items /nanos / perks to stay alive longer = defencive skills.

trader drains is the trader defence.
same as GTH more or less is a defence to not let us get tripple nabbed to death to fast but it can also be used as an offencive tool to empty the docs nanopool to enable the trader to kill the doc.

if u dont get the point where im stating that the trader drains are defencive u should go look the word up in a dictionary or u have 0 clue about how the trader profession works...
the drains doesnt aloow the trader to wtfpwn someone.. it enables him to stay alive.
basically all of the nanos u mentioned is neccesary as a trader to stay alive.
traders kill their targets by ASing them down.