Re: Re: Re: IN MY OPINION
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Originally posted by Dhurdahl
If you bothered to check, you would have noticed that his fixer is 126, and as I understood him... the highlvl doc or MA couldn't attack him due to PvP bracket... This is exactly what this change should fix. That doc shouldn't be able to help that agent!
Stronger? yeah, they are using so "superior" forces that they can't even attack him due to they are too high... pffff
If this guy had high level people on his own side, they could have come and engaged that doc and kept him from healing the agent. Apparently he didn't, or else his high level friends didn't support him. Either way, the enemy was stronger. There were three of them and if the other two could have attacked him, even if they were 20 levels lower than they were, he'd just have been dead faster! He lived longer while he was out numbered three-to-one precisely because they couldn't attack him. That's pretty stupid in itself!
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Built for them? huh?? isn't the idea that those chars should build their own controller at an ql that fits them? And to get a longer and more fun fight you need to stay in a close ql/lvl range otherwise it's just slaughter. Bringing in lvl150+ char in a fight that should be for lvl50 people is just rediculus.
Many of our members don't own the booster yet thanks to the distribution problems. Therefore, some of us who do have it built a base that's intended for our lower and middle level characters to fight at and build towers on to when and if they get their own copies.
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Nothing is stopping the defenders from griding out (or before the grid in) and getting those buffs themself. But generaly so will the attackers be better buffed the defenders since they haven't spent 15 buffing before the surprise attack.
How's this sound. I'll attack your base. But instead of gridding in and buffing at your own controller, you have to grid in, grid out, exit the grid in a city, wait for your other friends to arrive there (probably gridding several times as well), wait to get buffed, then go through the grid again. You'll be zoning six times, minimum, and it will probably take you 20 minutes to do all that zoning, waiting, and coordinating.
I bet you that in 15 minutes your undefended base (all the defenders are two zones away getting buffs) will be destroyed.
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So you want to wipe out a defending lvl75 orgs teams in 5 sec with lvl200 chars?
No that change was very much needed, esp in a tower senario where you have to stay and defend and can't just run if you see a blod red player come running.
I didn't say that was what I wanted, I said that this discussion wouldn't even apply if the rules hadn't been changed. Personally I think the limits should be 125 for players, and 175 for towers, for title 6 characters, but that's just me.
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But there is one problem though... QL150 controllers... they are attackable by a very large level span.. Some off the defenders (if they are high level) can't attack some of the attackers due to the PvP bracket and viseversa.... What to do about that I have no idea.
This is a huge balance problem and I hope it gets a lot of attention. Towers under ql 201 are way too weak, especially the ones over ql 150 that level 200 players can currently attack.
Re: Re: Re: Re: IN MY OPINION
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jynne
Many of our members don't own the booster yet thanks to the distribution problems. Therefore, some of us who do have it built a base that's intended for our lower and middle level characters to fight at and build towers on to when and if they get their own copies.[QUOTE]
Ah, sorry missunderstood you there. (of course you can build them in that case... :))
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How's this sound. I'll attack your base. But instead of gridding in and buffing at your own controller, you have to grid in, grid out, exit the grid in a city, wait for your other friends to arrive there (probably gridding several times as well), wait to get buffed, then go through the grid again. You'll be zoning six times, minimum, and it will probably take you 20 minutes to do all that zoning, waiting, and coordinating.I bet you that in 15 minutes your undefended base (all the defenders are two zones away getting buffs) will be destroyed.
Yepp, wont be time for the perfect buffing... in short... grab whatevery you can get in 5min and in you go. (One point though.... most, at least those from a mission, would want to save before jumping in right?) Aka, setup a gathering point where everyone goes at an attack.
Some tactics could be applied though... depending on the number of avail chars... aka some grid in a do delaying tactics while the others buff...
One suggestion that have floated around is that there should be a 5 min delay after using a shield neutralizer until you can attack. That would give the defenders a bit more time to react.
He He not been shouted at too much :)
Well CZ, all i can say is that its a real stinker of a problem!
Whatever way you do it, if you do it at all, will create some kind of problem, or backlash, so I don't really envy you the job:)
The only request i would make, is that if you do change things, please, please, please, do it in such a way that it doesn't make the lag problems in game any worse:(
I have to agree with Jynne, that I'm already somewhat hacked of with nerf em wars.
Can FC please try to fix the lag issues, todays patch has helped, but its still pretty bad:(
And it all seemed to start going wrong big time with 14.6 :( 14.7 made it much worse :(
Pleaase don't give us more lag???????
And yes Jynne i know my sig says about the PvP, but, i haven't changed it since before NW, but will :)
After ready much of this...
I agree with Jynne completely.
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Originally posted by Jynne
I'll emphasize it again.
You should always be able to defend your own towers against any attackers, regardless of your level. If you are in your guild's area, you should be able to attack anyone of any level whose 'side' according to the suppression gas would aggro your towers. You should be able to heal and buff anyone of any level whose 'side' is considered friendly to your towers.
Otherwise this level-bracket limitation on helping your friends plays out as a major and unfair advantage to attackers, and turns leveling into a liability.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IN MY OPINION
Actually while I agree with Jynne there is a point here that would be nice...
First 5 or even 10 min 'grace period' after a shield is disrupted is a good idea.
Second the time after a shield is disrupted appears to be WAY too long (I don't know what it actually is) and promotes false alarms and defenders standing around for long periods of time doing mostly nothing.
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Originally posted by Dhurdahl
Yepp, wont be time for the perfect buffing... in short... grab whatevery you can get in 5min and in you go. (One point though.... most, at least those from a mission, would want to save before jumping in right?) Aka, setup a gathering point where everyone goes at an attack.
Some tactics could be applied though... depending on the number of avail chars... aka some grid in a do delaying tactics while the others buff...
One suggestion that have floated around is that there should be a 5 min delay after using a shield neutralizer until you can attack. That would give the defenders a bit more time to react.
Re: a more radical approach
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Originally posted by Hypos
The basic problem is that AO, by design, is a game where players of all levels intermingle. As such, there is no reasonable way to protect chars from other chars their level that have been in some fashion "boosted" by high level chars. Even if we did bar high level chars from interfering directly, it would then become rule by twink. Whichever guild got their alts the best equipment would win. That would still result in the normal low level char not having a chance.
So, I suggest a more radical approach.
Divide the servers by level. There would be a server for every 20 levels. Any char can progress to the next server at any time by typing in a command, but once you hit the level limit for that server, you no longer gain xp for anything until you progess to the next server. And you can never, ever go back to an earlier server.
This would protect any char that wants to be protected from having to worry about the intervention of higher level chars. It would also allow any char that wishes to, to go on to a higher level server where they can be twinked to their hearts content; but they would then have to live with the intervention of unfriendly higher level chars. If you level faster than your friends, you can delay progressing to the next server all you want while you help them level.
One big, big plus of this is that every 20 levels, AO effectively becomes a new game. You get the nervousness of suddenly becoming the smallest fish in the new pond. And the excitement of suddenly having new buffs available to you and new areas open for hunting/exploring.
And you split my org across a bunch of different servers and completely destroy interaction between players.
Every member in my org helps each other. Not just shooting stuff. People pass their old items down to lower level players when they upgrade. We give loot we can't use to someone who can, instead vendor trashing it. We act like an organization, ya know. Split everyone across servers according to level and you've just destroyed my org.
And as for interaction between players, what happens to people like GSP? Because they're a different level than me, I can't hang out with them in the Reet? Player weddings? Wife on server 100-130, hubby on server 70-100. Some people might wish their significant other was in another dimension at times, but I doubt on this one :D
All for the sake of PvP? No way