Doctors

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Originally Posted by Phante

AHAHAHAHA Never had a better laugh in a very loooooong time :)))))))))))

yes my friend i sucked on my doc ahahahaha.

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Heh if I had a dollar every time someone in this game had delusions of actually being good.

@Dumonde I'm done discussing with you since you're incapable of perceiving doctors as anything other than a solo or dueling profession.

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

Step 1; Make yourself a doctor.
Step 2; Learn to be your perception of a "good doctor".
Step 3; I'll turn up with a mate and a pair of agents in mediocre gear - heck probably mostly stripped would do.
Step 4; Whenever you're ready, we'll warn you, ask you if you're ready etc etc so you have optimal conditions to defend yourself.
Step 5; Now that you are primed, warned, ready, set to go - Agents will fire 1 nano, then both proceed to cap Aimed Shot/Full Auto/Sneak Attack as well as fire the 4 AI 'Champion of' perks or so and maybe throw in a Concussive Shot (If we felt mean we could chain those, one after the other, but you'll be dead anyway at that point).
Step 6; Observe your corpse on the floor with a 100% success rate (after you keep crying for do-overs)
Step 7; You return and admit you're wrong.

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Step 8; Realize such a scenario only happens in city pvp which is far from a balanced situation and shouldn't ever be taken into consideration when discussing pvp balance topics.

Oh boy more clueless WoW comparisons. Yes, in WoW a good healer will never die 1v1 (but bad ones are, just like in AO, killable), the only difference is in AO the healer can actually wear you down and kill you in a 1v1 while in WoW they're completely harmless. And you still have the audacity to complain lol, your greed knows no bounds.

A doc who dies in a 1v1 in this game, especially if outside buffed, is far from a good doc. But you know already know that since you wanted to show me how "easy" it is to kill one by simulating a fight against two agents attacking simultaneously with the use of concentration and hotswapping, rofl. I rest my case.

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

Step 8; Realize such a scenario only happens in city pvp which is far from a balanced situation and shouldn't ever be taken into consideration when discussing pvp balance topics.

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Or Battlestation, or Towers - so, thats what... everywhere there is PvP?

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

Oh boy more clueless WoW comparisons. Yes, in WoW a good healer will never die 1v1 (but bad ones are, just like in AO, killable), the only difference is in AO the healer can actually wear you down and kill you in a 1v1 while in WoW they're completely harmless. And you still have the audacity to complain lol, your greed knows no bounds.

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Yes but in WoW they don't die 1v1 - ever - in AO, they 100% can and do.

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

A doc who dies in a 1v1 in this game, especially if outside buffed, is far from a good doc. But you know already know that since you wanted to show me how "easy" it is to kill one by simulating a fight against two agents attacking simultaneously with the use of concentration and hotswapping, rofl. I rest my case.

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Only one got one agent? That will absolutely suffice - 3 caps and 1 perk, that means instakill.
Or 1 good shade, or 1 good crat, or 1 good+lucky fixer, or 1 good+lucky advy, or 1 good enfo, or 1 good trader, or 1 good MA...
OH LOOK! That is most everything can kill a Doc of similar skill 1v1!

If you want to bring OSBs into it, there are things which move around - blockers, reflects etc.

I'd also like to note that the most 'successful' and 'best' agents in game are the ones who use concentration and hotswapping - especially if you count success as victory in a 1v1.

So, basically, you're whining that possibly the lowest damage prof in the game can kill you?
I think you should go play another game mate. The idea of characters being able to be built differently from the stereotype and however you please (the crux of this game and the reason I and many other stay) clearly foxes and infuriates you to petty forum trolling. Please, go find somewhere else to demand everyone fulfills your, personal, stereotypes.

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

Or Battlestation, or Towers - so, thats what... everywhere there is PvP?

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No not really. In pure theory it is possible of course but you should be well aware that in practice it never really happens that two swapping agents are sneaking and simultaneously attacking a doctor in the battlestations or at notum wars. Even if they do, you think it's good balancing argument that a profession should be able to survive a gank from not one but two of what's considered to be the most OP ganking profession ingame? No profession can survive such a theoretical gank, why should doctors?

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

Yes but in WoW they don't die 1v1 - ever - in AO, they 100% can and do.

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They also don't kill in 1v1 - ever - in AO, they 100% can and do. You want everything?

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

Only one got one agent? That will absolutely suffice - 3 caps and 1 perk, that means instakill.
Or 1 good shade, or 1 good crat, or 1 good+lucky fixer, or 1 good+lucky advy, or 1 good enfo, or 1 good trader, or 1 good MA...
OH LOOK! That is most everything can kill a Doc of similar skill 1v1!

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Just add RRFE, a buff fairly common in pvp to the picture and literally none of these professions can 1v1 a good doctor. I know rk2 has always been the inferior server when it comes to pvp that they compensated with ridiculous rules like making moving illegal but god damn.

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

So, basically, you're whining that possibly the lowest damage prof in the game can kill you?

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No, do you have reading comprehension problems? When did I say any of that? I'm countering other people's whining that they want even more damage and even more survivability on top of that which is pure greed and completely unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

I think you should go play another game mate. The idea of characters being able to be built differently from the stereotype and however you please (the crux of this game and the reason I and many other stay) clearly foxes and infuriates you to petty forum trolling. Please, go find somewhere else to demand everyone fulfills your, personal, stereotypes.

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Character customization is one thing, greedy wishes to make one's favored profession(s) ridiculously overpowered is another. I get it that people want their desired professions to be invincible jacks of all trades and masters of at least few but we'll never have an actually balanced and fun game that way, will we? Try to think about that, if you're capable of course.

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

Or Battlestation, or Towers - so, thats what... everywhere there is PvP?

[...]

Yes but in WoW they don't die 1v1 - ever - in AO, they 100% can and do.

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You mean, that if 2 healer are fighting against each other? Or if a healer fights vs. a dmg class (like windwalker or warrior) ?

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

Only one got one agent? That will absolutely suffice - 3 caps and 1 perk, that means instakill.
Or 1 good shade, or 1 good crat, or 1 good+lucky fixer, or 1 good+lucky advy, or 1 good enfo, or 1 good trader, or 1 good MA...

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- A Shade is not able to kill a decent doc w/o using the nanodrain. If the nanopool is empty, the doc is almost dead. But this is only due to an unfair issue, rendering a profession totally helpless, just like GTH against a NT. Just to mention it, no other professions can be shut down in a similar way.

- An advy will only kill a doc when.... the players experiences a disconnect? Or if the door rings for an incoming pizza. Otherwise, no way. And please, Misdiagnosis wont change it.

- Never fear a trader. Put a heal into your bar which can be executed even with all drains, 1 nano stim (well timed) for one execution of CH whilst GTHs nanodrain and no trader will ever be possible to defeat a doc. Never. Except the situation in which you fail yourself using the nano stim in the correct moment (and again, no fking ring-nano-procs is active) ofc. Thx 4 Belza for countless of fights and proving my above mentioned statement.

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

No not really. In pure theory it is possible of course but you should be well aware that in practice it never really happens that two swapping agents are sneaking and simultaneously attacking a doctor in the battlestations or at notum wars.

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You've clearly never been involved with or observed organized PvP.

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

Even if they do, you think it's good balancing argument that a profession should be able to survive a gank from not one but two of what's considered to be the most OP ganking profession ingame? No profession can survive such a theoretical gank, why should doctors?

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It is if you are declaring doctors should be healsticks that have no offensive capability - they should have super strong defensive capability to compensate.
(Also, I said it doesn't matter if one, or two. One Agent with 3 Capping Specials and 2 perks within 2 seconds is nothing but ridiculous and a guarenteed win.)

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

They also don't kill in 1v1 - ever - in AO, they 100% can and do. You want everything?

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Well considering doctors don't have everything when they go offensive setup (lower HP, nanoskills, nanoregen)...

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

Just add RRFE, a buff fairly common in pvp to the picture and literally none of these professions can 1v1 a good doctor. I know rk2 has always been the inferior server when it comes to pvp that they compensated with ridiculous rules like making moving illegal but god damn.

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Really? I'd like to see you beat a good crat when you have -5.5k inits, you're in chainstun and you're being whacked by 3 sources of damage.
I can beat any doctor 1 on 1 with shade, no problem.
I'm yet to see RK1 players live up to their "legendary PvPer" self proclaimed status. And the "you shouldn't kite" thing is for duels and is almost universally believed to be a good 'unwritten rule'.

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

No, do you have reading comprehension problems? When did I say any of that? I'm countering other people's whining that they want even more damage and even more survivability on top of that which is pure greed and completely unnecessary.

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Your entire argument is that we should be nerfing doctors to healsticks. Thats absurd in this game. People are complaining that FC want to nerf their already low damage, not that they want more. The only instance people are saying they want more is if FC *DO* nerf their already low damage - they want more from *OTHER AREAS* to compensate.

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

Character customization is one thing, greedy wishes to make one's favored profession(s) ridiculously overpowered is another. I get it that people want their desired professions to be invincible jacks of all trades and masters of at least few but we'll never have an actually balanced and fun game that way, will we? Try to think about that, if you're capable of course.

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There is no greedy wishes on my behalf, only ridiculing your insane claims and blatant idiocy. If FC nerf the doctors damage in one way (aimshot for example), it should be increased in others; like DoTs. Doctors are not an invincible jack of all trades as they stand. They are only masters of healing currently. The do a little bit of damage and a bit of debuffing (the best debuffs are on a pair of procs that are agreed to be bad for the game anyway). FC wish to nerf their two major damage sources, Malpractice and Aimshot - they should, Aimshot is a broken special introduced to fight a broken system, evades. Malpractice turns doctors into more of an NT, which is wrong in my opinion. You can't just take something without giving something back unless the thing they had was too much in the first place. You claim it was too much to begin with based on your personal view of the profession, I believe it wasn't - I do however believe it was in the wrong place.

Don't nerf the doctors damage, just make it more doctor applicable as opposed to "everyone must strap a troa'ler to themselves to be competitive".

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Originally Posted by Dumonde

You mean, that if 2 healer are fighting against each other? Or if a healer fights vs. a dmg class (like windwalker or warrior) ?

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I mean Healer vs Damage :)

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Originally Posted by Dumonde

- A Shade is not able to kill a decent doc w/o using the nanodrain. If the nanopool is empty, the doc is almost dead. But this is only due to an unfair issue, rendering a profession totally helpless, just like GTH against a NT. Just to mention it, no other professions can be shut down in a similar way.

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A decent shade will always use nanodrain vs a doctor - you can have a "I hope I get lucky and kill this doctor" or "I will 100% definitely kill this doctor". Everyone who doesn't like relying on 'luck' to win will choose the latter.

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Originally Posted by Dumonde

- An advy will only kill a doc when.... the players experiences a disconnect? Or if the door rings for an incoming pizza. Otherwise, no way. And please, Misdiagnosis wont change it.

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You'd be surprised how many doctors get horribly caught out by a capping full auto from a swapping advy, just ask Fluxpavllion!

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Originally Posted by Dumonde

- Never fear a trader. Put a heal into your bar which can be executed even with all drains, 1 nano stim (well timed) for one execution of CH whilst GTHs nanodrain and no trader will ever be possible to defeat a doc. Never. Except the situation in which you fail yourself using the nano stim in the correct moment (and again, no fking ring-nano-procs is active) ofc. Thx 4 Belza for countless of fights and proving my above mentioned statement.

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Belz is not a good trader to use as a test subject, he doesn't know how to fight doctors. I would seriously suggest fighting (your orgmate) Vispa - he'll show you the strength of a good trader! :)

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

A doc who dies in a 1v1 in this game, especially if outside buffed, is far from a good doc. But you know already know that since you wanted to show me how "easy" it is to kill one by simulating a fight against two agents attacking simultaneously with the use of concentration and hotswapping, rofl. I rest my case.

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Your doc vs my shade?

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

Really? I'd like to see you beat a good crat when you have -5.5k inits, you're in chainstun and you're being whacked by 3 sources of damage.
I can beat any doctor 1 on 1 with shade, no problem.
I'm yet to see RK1 players live up to their "legendary PvPer" self proclaimed status. And the "you shouldn't kite" thing is for duels and is almost universally believed to be a good 'unwritten rule'.

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1. crats don't debuff inits by -5.5k, unless you're counting calms that break on first hit
2. chain stun? what, how? Even IF there was no such thing as free movement stims that make every stun last 1 second and IF the stun landed 100% of the time which it doesn't it would mean stun uptime of 60%. Chain stun would mean being stunned 100% of the time. Learn your terminology.
3. ubted pets don't do a lot of damage, nor do they have the nano resist to counter it at all

As dumonde pointed out, a good doc will barely die to anything 1v1 ever. Comparing data from duels you've witnessed with mediocre doctors is your flaw. You have much to learn young padawan.

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

1. crats don't debuff inits by -5.5k, unless you're counting calms that break on first hit
2. chain stun? what, how? Even IF there was no such thing as free movement stims that make every stun last 1 second and IF the stun landed 100% of the time which it doesn't it would mean stun uptime of 60%. Chain stun would mean being stunned 100% of the time. Learn your terminology.
3. ubted pets don't do a lot of damage, nor do they have the nano resist to counter it at all

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1. they dont always break on first hit, sometimes they run 2-3s
2. fm stims need 1s execution time and then it takes 1s for the stun to run out + reaction time
3.yeah crats dont have a hhab which removes ubt from pets and gives them immunity for a short time

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Originally Posted by DarkerThanBlack

Heh if I had a dollar every time someone in this game had delusions of actually being good.

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I am still laughing HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHA

HAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAH



HAHAHAHA

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

A decent shade will always use nanodrain vs a doctor - you can have a "I hope I get lucky and kill this doctor" or "I will 100% definitely kill this doctor". Everyone who doesn't like relying on 'luck' to win will choose the latter.

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A Doctors loose vs. a Shade is only due to the nanodrain - nothing else. And I heard rumors that this (or better: these) nanodrain(s) will be "nerfed" just to grant an even chance for both and not a 100% sure easy win.

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

You'd be surprised how many doctors get horribly caught out by a capping full auto from a swapping advy, just ask Fluxpavllion!

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I, personally, never experienced that in over 12 years playing a Doctor. But, if you say so, it must be right.

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Originally Posted by Bainzy

Belz is not a good trader to use as a test subject, he doesn't know how to fight doctors. I would seriously suggest fighting (your orgmate) Vispa - he'll show you the strength of a good trader! :)

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I fought against Vispa (longer time ago) and yes, the results were nearly even like 50% him 50% me (or maybe 1-2 more for him or me, cant recall it anymore) - I was with him in Mercs / Shadowmercs. In a fight vs. a Trader, there is only 1 critical (GTH+Stun) point which you always need to be aware of. And every Trader, doesnt matter if is Belza, Sal or anyone else - can be defeated by a Doctor and the chances are almost even and balanced. This is why I love fights vs. this profession. Not a 100% win, not a 100% loose and it is challenging.

Btw: /hug sal :p

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Originally Posted by Hassler

1. they dont always break on first hit, sometimes they run 2-3s
2. fm stims need 1s execution time and then it takes 1s for the stun to run out + reaction time
3.yeah crats dont have a hhab which removes ubt from pets and gives them immunity for a short time

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Hi Hassi :)

1.) These LMN are more like a "nail in the coffin" and sometimes, even if broke on a first hit - they can seal a Doctors doom. But, they are not the biggest problem Doc vs. Crat.
2.) Its all about timing. And experience.

I do not know if there are now really mentionable pvp Docs out there currently. But when I left and went into inactivity, There were like 5 pvp / duel Docs. Kasssandra, Hasslerfixs Doc, Bombadoc, Fluffybozzie, one female clan doc (but I can not remember the name), Doctemos, Priestesss, my beloved Tramson aka Baaaaeeeng and myself. Are there any new ones nowadays ?

I eat u all on my MP anyways <3

<--- Sexymanbeastmp#1 for GM!