Friday with Means - July 10th, 2009 - Stims, Neutrals, Content and Vacation

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Originally Posted by Chrys

No. You can do just fine with Miy's, Pred, tier and a ginormous variety of other armors for all PVM activities till tl7. PVP armors should remain PVP.

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It's not PvP armour, if it was every PvPer would be wearing full OFAB. Instead short of the odd prof like soldiers which do wear a modest handful of OFAB most PvPers wear little to no OFAB at all. Even the weapons with the dread, Xan or prisoner ones at TL7 and AI or others in earlier TLs tend to get used over OFAB ones.

The only reason VP is as high as it is at BSs is in an attempted to draw people to BSs as most were dead. We don't even have to speculate about that one as they specifically told us they were doing it for just that very purpose.

OFAB armour we were told before the launch of LE was to be not as good as combined but easier to get. This would make it ideal for newer players looking for good armour and are willing to spend some time getting it but can't afford combined. Although given how VP currently is gained it doesn't work out like that at all.

We have been told by Means new ways of gaining VP are suppose to be coming. That will hopefully correct things so it is more reasonably accessible at any lvl.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

Ofab was designed as a upgrade to T3 and simply because the Battlestations were Sil's pet project he wanted to show off as a success the bolstered VP from PvP happened to be the best way to get Ofab.

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Sil took over as game director after the launch of LE, most of the LE related changes, additions and the first big VP bump at BSs. One of my beefs with Sil during the time he spent as GD was that he barely did a thing with all things LE and just let all those broken and messed up things sit. It wasn't until Means took over that more changes with LE related content started to happen with promises to do more.

The biggest LE related changes Sil was involved with was the second smaller VP bump at only the "lower" BSs, some more items in the VP terminals, the BS disgrace period if you left early and honour points. There were the odd other things like to take another crack at making neuts function with the side they signed up for better and to a certain degree the PvP system changes but that was about it. Most of his time as GD was spent adding lots and lots of new stuff for mostly TL7s.

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Originally Posted by Boltgun

Honestly, who cares if neuts have boards, and who cares about what kind of choice it is to be neut. Neutrals are players and requires attention as much as sideds. I'm sure many are thrilled about being labeled the rp guys. What neuts bring to the game is beyond RP, and this mentality will only hack parts of the game out.

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What do they bring to game, as a faction, beyond RP? I'm not trying to start an argument here, just curious. What i'm reading is that you want some items equal to the faction-locked items clan and omni have so you can participate "in the conflict", but you don't want to change to clan or omni because you're "neutral in the conflict". You don't want to be labeled an "RP guy" but the only thing holding you back from those items is an RP reason.

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Originally Posted by Posid-

When neutrals get to go omni/clan there will be a huge rush for 220s to get 2.5k tokens.

The most efficient way to get tokens at the moment is by doing the pvp quests higgins/lee. The way the quest is designed it's possible to kill higgins/lee 4 times and still get tokens for it. That's 1 hour of respawns, which means that there's only 24 people that can get their 116 tokens a day, it can be done twice a day for one player, see the problem? :). Do you plan on changing this, or do you want countless people to go through the frustration of trying to OD people on higgins/lee? :) A simple fix for this would be to add the quest item drop x6 instead of x1. This would make the amount of players that can do the quest substantially higher.

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Fastest way ?? Ever heard of token guns ? I made 1500 tokens in 1 day, not a mere 100 tokens :o

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Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges

Sil took over as game director after the launch of LE....

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Perhaps I should have said FCs pet project then, maybe Sil felt obligated to do such things to bolster BS as a legacy to his predecessor.

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Originally Posted by Chrys

Item grind is bad, but you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to acquiring ofab, it's easier than the majority of PVM-attainable armors.

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Instanced Pande, instanced Cities, S10, instanced APF. Miy's drops almost as often as monster parts, DB 1/2 have no lockout and take a single team not even ten minutes to complete. I got the entire set of armour in a day.

Looking at my gear, its mix of combined, Ofab and db; the hardest and longest one to get was my Ofab because after I spent hours and hours waiting for BS to start and then hours on BS fighting I got to go to LE missions and blitz/grind types for hours.

I really don't see how it's easier then the majority of other PvM attainable armour. Unless of course you meant all armour and not just armour with equivocal stats and uses. :rolleyes:

It's easier to get than Chosen/Faithful yet better. Not quit yer whining.

@Phoenix: You've been whining about VPs for the last 2 years. It's obtained primarily by PVP. So do what you do with PVM teams, get a good mix of professions, /assist, pwn bs and get your armor quick just like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Chrys

It's easier to get than Chosen/Faithful yet better. Not quit yer whining.

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So what you meant to say is that Ofab is easier to get then T3, and not "easier than the majority of PVM-attainable armors". Gotcha.

And what about levels before T3?

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Originally Posted by Ayria

So what you meant to say is that Ofab is easier to get then T3, and not "easier than the majority of PVM-attainable armors". Gotcha.

And what about levels before T3?

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Get predz.

It's also easier than getting Combined, ql250+ BoDK/mystical force, iGoC, dchest, etc. Those are the endgame armors, barring one or two buffing armors from dust brigades.

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Originally Posted by Chrys

Get predz.

It's also easier than getting Combined, ql250+ BoDK/mystical force, iGoC, dchest, etc. Those are the endgame armors, barring one or two buffing armors from dust brigades.

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If you want to look at it that way nothing is hard to get just varying levels of time consuming.

But I fail to see how spending hours and hours getting Ofab is easier then spending hours and hours getting Combind or BoDK or iGoC etc. or any less of a waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

If you want to look at it that way nothing is hard to get just varying levels of time consuming.

But I fail to see how spending hours and hours getting Ofab is easier then spending hours and hours getting Combind or BoDK or iGoC etc. or any less of a waste of time.

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Because pvp is supposed to be fun? That you don't like PVP is a deficiency in you, not the game.

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Originally Posted by Keldros

Faster levelling without new low-level content actually makes the problem worse, not better.

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And we have a winner! Add more lower TL content. Someone once mentioned making the game "wider" rather than longer. I wish I could find the post.

Revamp the newbie experience, give us a reason to come back to RK, revitalize the SL grind... something... besides more TL7 stuff.

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Originally Posted by Steiden

Dont change the grind. It is perfect like it is, for reaching 220/30/70.

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/agree

Couldn't agree more.

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Originally Posted by Mastablasta

Because pvp is supposed to be fun? That you don't like PVP is a deficiency in you, not the game.

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Right, that I don't like getting killed every 2 seconds cause someone has an /assist (or targets my big ****ing red glow) is totally my fault.

I do enjoy PvP (and if I didn't it's not a deficiency it's a difference in taste, I'm sure there is many things I like that you don't does it make you deficient?) I'd just enjoy it more if it had any semblance of skill more often.

Now and then you get a good fight going where you die cause you slipped up or the other guy is better, the rest of the time you're a speck on the wall (not much different then the speck running on the floor I know :p) because you're hit with a FA/burst/triple/as/root/blind combo alpha of doom.

Anyway, what relevance does enjoying the task have on it's duration? Beyond that people tend to perceive time moving quicker when they are enjoying something.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

Anyway, what relevance does enjoying the task have on it's duration? Beyond that people tend to perceive time moving quicker when they are enjoying something.

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Some, since if there were more BS running or whatever, the amount of time to get OFAB armor is much shorter than for most other items in the game, and has you doing stuff that's less repetitive than the norm.

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Originally Posted by Mastablasta

Some, since if there were more BS running or whatever, the amount of time to get OFAB armor is much shorter than for most other items in the game, and has you doing stuff that's less repetitive than the norm.

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Less repetition, granted.

Less time, not so much. It still takes many hours to get the needed VP (maybe if they keep the gift idea a lot less). And more hours getting the types. I don't see how it's different then any other armour.

You can get combined in an hour if you're really really lucky (double supple drop ftw). DB armour is useful for more then twinking as is prisoner stuff; both quick and easy to get. You can do a single pande raid and get beast armour. Miy's is pathetically easy to get. The only one I'd really agree is longer to get then Ofab is Tier.

Again it seems like it's a perceived difference, it's less repetitive and more enjoyable thus time seems to be less of a factor when in reality the time taken is quite similar.

well between ofab and combined, they are the two top armours in the game. Chosen is not, miy's is not, DB is not, etc.

For all PVM purposes though, they work just fine, for the extra % edge you get with ofab, you pay a premium, that's how games work (though ironically the premium is less than the other armors I listed). You can get by just fine in PVM without a single piece of ofab or combined at any level.

Edit: Your symbs, which are far more important to your overall PVM performance, require way more grind than the ofab sets. Point is, we agree there's too much item grind, but ofab is not where the bottleneck is. It's the huge long mind-numbingly boring quests that are compulsory to get your endgame toolsets/symbs/etc. that mean fewer and fewer are rolling tl7 alts anymore (some people with no jobs/lives excepted). Which means chances are, people will quit rather than keep on exploring this game.

No other game has as many equip slots as AO, and no other game requires you to grind at least so many items to fill in your equip slots as AO. Just look at symbs: 14 slots and you practically have to do them all twice (300 symb + beta). Or the work it takes to get the gear to put in 300s. Those kinds of things, once made into a compulsory grind, are where the OCD /wrist effect comes in.

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Originally Posted by rooibos

What do they bring to game, as a faction, beyond RP? I'm not trying to start an argument here, just curious. What i'm reading is that you want some items equal to the faction-locked items clan and omni have so you can participate "in the conflict", but you don't want to change to clan or omni because you're "neutral in the conflict". You don't want to be labeled an "RP guy" but the only thing holding you back from those items is an RP reason.

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Actually if you think about it the RPers are actually omni or clan because they are "pretending" that they are on a side and for some reason think their "side" is better than another when in actuality they are just made up differences.

What neuts bring to the game is the fact that they want to play and not give a F--- about what side they are on.

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Originally Posted by rooibos

what do they bring to game, as a faction, beyond rp? I'm not trying to start an argument here, just curious. What i'm reading is that you want some items equal to the faction-locked items clan and omni have so you can participate "in the conflict", but you don't want to change to clan or omni because you're "neutral in the conflict". You don't want to be labeled an "rp guy" but the only thing holding you back from those items is an rp reason.

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Originally Posted by means

the existance of a third alternative makes for interesting politicking within the population and leads to unforseen changes in the immediate balance of power. This will continue to be true in the forseeable future.

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Good to see that the issues with neutrals are being looked at, thanks alot Means. Also i like the sounds of the rest of what you guys are doing.

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Originally Posted by rooibos

the only thing holding you back from those items is an RP reason.

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Not true, it is often the people on the sidelines of a war that make the money and get the better of it, this is what ONE of the sorts of people within the neutral "faction" and what they do.

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Originally Posted by MrGizmol

Actually if you think about it the RPers are actually omni or clan because they are "pretending" that they are on a side and for some reason think their "side" is better than another when in actuality they are just made up differences.

What neuts bring to the game is the fact that they want to play and not give a F--- about what side they are on.

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I'm sorry but i dont believe this is true. Neutrals are neutral to the conflict to a certain extent. You cannot make sweeping statements about the most varied group of people on RK.


Could i maybe point you to this post of mine.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&postcount=236

Or consider how neuts are more like mercenaries/freelancers, this being most obvious in BS where they for a short time take one side or the other for profit.
Also, 12 neuts can start a bs and run it, 12 omni or clans cannot.

Should Neutrals get a token board? No.
Should Neutrals get new neck items? Yes.
And so should everyone else, and not just limited to neck items.
Getting new stuff should be about different, not ''more of the same''.

Just because you haven't picked a side doesn't mean you aren't involved.
There are neutral tower sites as well after all, as well as cities.

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Originally Posted by Ahndracorvid

This kind of thing is getting extremely tiresome. Please don't make sweeping generalizations like that and lump everybody into the same group. Your sentence reads to me too much like an accusation. Not everybody thinks the way you imply. And I hate to say it but it doesn't fill me with confidence to see this attitude from my own profession's professional... :\

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hi!

i'd like you to meet this kettle!

My main have 15k almoust 16k alien kills, I am ai 21 on her.
My alt have 10.3k alien kills with ai 22.

5k less ai kills and 1 more ai level?

heh.. thats wrong already (not to mention I havent been done so much axp farm in arid, but mainly apf's).

The %xp affecting already made a huge boost for axp, arid made it rediculus..


Sorry, but i dont think faster leveling is a solution. Do we need more 220/30/70 that have no clue how to play the game? Do we have to make the game more carebearish eatch year? If i would like an easy game i wouldent play ao, I would play WaR or WoW.

Let me point out what changes to a more "friendly enviorment" that lowered the standard of the game already (just my opinion).

* Not be able to loot other players
* I think battlestations was sort of an end for a fun pvp era
* /duel system ended much flagged fights, thats sad
* New pvp titles with no pentalities for dying (less dynamic pvp, just focus on killing and not careing about dying)
* Instanced apf killed that playfield really
* Arid xp farm
* Instanced pande will kill that playfield in the matter of months

To me and many others we chose to play ao for the deep content and the dept of effort it take to acomplish something. Easy is not equal to fun.