Quickie Explanation of New Trader NanoSheet (Summary Open to Criticism)

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Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:05:52
Saetos

Quote:

Originally Posted by lainbr

What about the fr00b trader problem? >.<

Lemme check something riiiight quick...

[EDIT] k. I believe your original complaint was about the heals now only healing you for 550? That's incorrect: the nano you get from Ashley whats-his-face now damages for 1980 and gives you 990 health back, instead of -997/+990.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:11:05
Lektronik

After brief review of the doc, here are some initial feedback/questions -

About trader cooldowns: Will these cooldowns be "local" like the other professions will be getting?

Roots

The durations on all of these roots is just insanely too short. If you are going to nerf duration hard, I would think a fair minimum would be 30 seconds, with a maximum of 1 minute. But 3-7 seconds? WTH??

Drain Health, Heal Other

These things need to keep the ability of using it on the caster. Removing this functionality is silly (to put it nicely).

Drain Other, Heal Self

Maybe too much nanocost, though that probably needs to be decided on the test server.

Nano Point Stealing Line

At first glance, it looks like it's taking too much nano. However, in consideration of the insane nanocosts of everything now, it may be reasonable.

Outfit Team Nano Regen

Double the "per hit" amount, reduce the number of hits to 15, keep the 2 second delay. In consideration of all of the casting done elsewhere, I feel this is more an emergency line for the team tank/doc. In emergency situations, I don't think we want to be waiting around for miniature tick amounts.

Nanobot Defense

Nice.

Charms n' Pets

Hmmmmm.

Slayer Nanos

Cool.

Divest Damage

10 minute "buff" duration is nice.

Drain AC Debuff

Nice.

AC Buff Line

WTF are you smoking???

Skill Drain

1) I don't think that 276 points of skill reduction is going to do anything serious to a devoted pvper, so maybe a slightly higher amount is needed (350/400 total?). I also think that 15 seconds is way way too short. Maybe 45 seconds instead.

2) If you *must* have a cooldown here, I would only suggest that it be on the divest line. With plunder being 150% NR resist, a 5 second cooldown will only cause headache for the trader and likely won't even be used in the toolset due to impossibility to land in a reasonable manner (in pvp at least).

Skill Wranglers

Please implement the ability to turn off "team invite" windows unless initiated from the LFT window.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:14:32
Obtena

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorOutage

You never cease to amaze with your lack of intelligence.

I lack intelligence because I don't know if froobs have access to SL? Um, OK. Anyways. :rolleyes: Good post.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:14:43
Saetos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lektronik

After brief review of the doc, here are some initial feedback/questions -

About trader cooldowns: Will these cooldowns be "local" like the other professions will be getting?

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by local, but the cooldowns on each line will be independent of the other lines; using Rouse Outfit will not lock out all nanocasting for 59 seconds, for instance.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:19:03
Gatester

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shareida

After thinking about it for 30 minutes: We completely loose the ability to solo PvM. Lowering Targets AAO was the only thing that kept us from getting killed. Reducing the drains to 15 seconds also in pvm renders us almost completely defenseless.

Current self-healing from top trader heal is 17302
Nano document self-healing from the health drain is 37920

How much more than my pure healing/survival setup MA (including all my MA's HD, disharmony proc and HHaB ring) do you want to heal before even including HD, drain procs, and other trader health draining tools? What do traders need to solo that absolutely never misses and does that much damage?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trgeorge

@Gatester
Stop trolling and go sell cars. "Target not Trader OR Visual profession Trader" means something to the litterate

So it seems we'll become team buff monkeys, no solo play for us anymore. Spaming nanos left and right, not able to shot anything. And why must we wait till lvl 208 to use calms in SL?

Yeah, it means don't use team buffs when you have a self only buff for +30 crit increase and are soloing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metafizis

Q F T.

Might as well delete the proffesion and make 131 buffing totems.

Everything that was useful was shortned/nanocosted/removed and everything that was fine as it was got a useless long duration.

Try GTHing a NT after this, they will just /lol you to death..

Killing a doc will become a epic occurrence and a myth.

6% crit increase, large "permanent" damage add buff, fixed mezzes that will now work in SL, over 2x increase in healing+5k nuke, and massively useful nano point drain are a few improvements I can see.

Read the doctor nano document. High nanocost heals+tools combined with very high nano point drains = __________?

I want all the ones whining about pvm to name exactly what they will lose the ability to solo with these changes and that is with a setup that is meant for pvm and not pvp. The only thing that was lost for pvm was...-300 AAO in pvm maybe? I'll take the 20000 extra healing per minute.

I am trying to be respectful, but most of you seem to completely disregard any benefits, ignore all the changes to other professions as well, overexaggerate almost every situation, and refuse to support your statements with either mathmatical calculations or realistic situations that could in someway make your case relevant. There are some problems but not every profession needs to start screeming it is the end of the world without saying exactly how.

"We are ****ed" is not an argument, so until there are specifics brought into this you guys are just trolling and I will be sure to let any of you know it.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:21:56
lainbr

Found it LOL

The entirely line isnt organized, should I blame Genele?

SO..... I got no complaining! EVERYTHING is ok (I guess)
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:25:52
Shareida

Seatos I kind of forgive you to misquote me, as soon as you try to solo a 220+ SL boss with the new nanos, you might understand why i feel this way.

I did solo pretty much every Inferno boss myself. Ask the devs to teleport you to: pen catacombs, in front of Kur, the boss in there. Solo him with the old setup, then try the new one. You will understand what i mean.

The health plunders WILL NOT MAKE UP FOR THE AAO DRAINS WE LOST IN PVM ENCOUNTERS.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:27:32
Saetos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shareida

Seatos I kind of forgive you to misquote me, as soon as you try to solo a 220+ SL boss with the new nanos, you might understand why i feel this way.

The health plunders WILL NOT MAKE UP FOR THE AAO DRAINS WE LOST IN PVM ENCOUNTERS.

We did not lose our AAO drains for PVM encounters. The amount drained is still the same before (though... actually it's been reduced by, what, 14? From 150 to 136?) But CP/IS was never usable in PVM.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:35:22
Shareida

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saetos

We did not lose our AAO drains for PVM encounters. The amount drained is still the same before (though... actually it's been reduced by, what, 14? From 150 to 136?) But CP/IS was never usable in PVM.

The problem is the duration. Please, push the deuration to 3:30 mins on NPC's, we do rely on it. You do NOT have the time to recast both drains every 15 seconds. Just try Kur, i dare you.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:43:30
Syyceria

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatester

Current self-healing from top trader heal is 17302
Nano document self-healing from the health drain is 37920

You are forgetting something...

Executing Nano Program: Perfected Health Plunder.
Your target countered the nano program.

I wouldn't be surprised if we manage to fumble >50% of the time, and don't get me started on NR1+ opponents...

A placeholder post on page 5? I doubt anyone will notice your answers there when you edit it, at least not those that refresh this thread every hour or so :)
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:49:05
Wrangeline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syyceria

A placeholder post on page 5? I doubt anyone will notice your answers there when you edit it, at least not those that refresh this thread every hour or so :)

He was just pointing out that he made placeholders at the start of the thread. His answers are there :)
Jan 22nd, 2011, 01:54:58
Syyceria

Positive change: Reducing most recharge timers to 1-2.5 seconds.

As we will spend most of our time running away, and since the recharge bar is still broken for more than 3.5 years aka 16.2 patch, it will make it a bit easier for those that have trouble remembering all those different recharge timers and guessing correctly if 5 seconds or whatever have passed since the last casted nano...

And how will the cooldowns be displayed? I hope I won't have to check my ncu for the cooldown nanos with an similar icon. 2 nanos with 30 seconds cooldowns seems to be manageable, but 16 cooldowns ranging from a few seconds to a few minutes? Eeeek?
Jan 22nd, 2011, 02:27:41
Obtena

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syyceria

And how will the cooldowns be displayed? I hope I won't have to check my ncu for the cooldown nanos with an similar icon. 2 nanos with 30 seconds cooldowns seems to be manageable, but 16 cooldowns ranging from a few seconds to a few minutes? Eeeek?

That I agree with and have asked the same question to FC ... I'm hoping FC is going to do something reasonable with this.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 02:48:11
Whealer

I'm personally hoping to see cooldowns done in a similar manner to the recharge countdowns on perks. I'm not so sure I could take having 10+ cooldown nanos running in my NCU window.

Another issue that I've noticed is the loss of the Ranged Init buff from Relentless Slayer and Fine Tuning. I'm aware that it wasn't on any of the other buffs in the line but I was rather hoping to see it added to the other buffs as opposed to removed from these two.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 02:50:49
Lektronik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saetos

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by local, but the cooldowns on each line will be independent of the other lines; using Rouse Outfit will not lock out all nanocasting for 59 seconds, for instance.

With all the talk of cooldowns, I got them mixed up with what I read in the NT forums:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastablasta

Well, as some of you might've seen with the latest Snowball nano, and others with Improved Complete Healing, "Local Cooldown" (mark this, it's going to be used a lot in the coming times), that is cooldown that only restricts a single nano or line of nanos, is going to play a major part in how we're going to work in the future. So, now we are going to be able to do more things at once, such as cast absorbs/shields/roots/calms and keep on nuking while they recharge in the background.

I was just thinking that since we would have to cast so many debuffs on a faster basis, that we wouldn't want downtime due to waiting on recharges. However, I wasn't paying attention to the recharge times in the trader doc so much, and now I realize that many of the important debuffs only have a 1 sec recharge so cooldown doesn't really matter here.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 03:00:55
Shareida

Still waiting for an answer on fixing the AAO debuff (drain durations) on NPC's.

Don't get me wrong. That's the only thing really bothering me in the whole nano document.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 03:02:07
XenonDe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syyceria

And how will the cooldowns be displayed? I hope I won't have to check my ncu for the cooldown nanos with an similar icon. 2 nanos with 30 seconds cooldowns seems to be manageable, but 16 cooldowns ranging from a few seconds to a few minutes? Eeeek?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whealer

I'm personally hoping to see cooldowns done in a similar manner to the recharge countdowns on perks. I'm not so sure I could take having 10+ cooldown nanos running in my NCU window.

Whealer got it right. The local cooldown mechanic is already in the game being used for Improved complete healing for example. You do not get a lockdown nano in your NCU but the icon on your hotbar/nano window will grey out and have a countdown on it ticking down until the nano is ready for use. This countdown is like your perk countdowns and independant from the countdowns you already see on all your nanos on the hotbar (being caused by the recharge).

Meaning - if you cast a nano with a cooldown of 10 and recharge of 1 you will get a 1s counter on all your nano icon on the hotbar but a 10s counter on the icon of the nano in question.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 03:21:36
Saetos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syyceria

And how will the cooldowns be displayed? I hope I won't have to check my ncu for the cooldown nanos with an similar icon. 2 nanos with 30 seconds cooldowns seems to be manageable, but 16 cooldowns ranging from a few seconds to a few minutes? Eeeek?

The cooldowns, to my knowledge, should work the way they do today, where the nano icons are grayed out and then revealed slowly with an overlaying timer.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 04:32:16
Esqi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obtena

You have no idea? You know I have a trader (or you might have forgotten) for much longer than many people have even played the game. My qualifications to make a statement like this is that I was and have been doing endgame trader PVP since the time that Selltoj00 was PWNing everyone. A good trader back then didn't need BR, GTH and one-hit trick nanos to beat people.

Anyways, I don't really need to clarify. This isn't an argument that will somehow bring those tools back. Those tools are gone and they won't be coming back. Since the release of the 'new' nanos, SS, GTH, BR, etc... the concept of trader PVP has suffered. That's not to say they aren't more successful with those tools ... who ISN'T successful with tools that wipe nanopool, give 100% reflects or drain literally 1000's of AR?

For me, the proposal is a good direction.

Always admired your positive attitude, almost always supposedly hardcore pvprs flame others cause they choose to not be supposedly hardcore.

You break the stigma.

OT:

Some of the more sillier nanos are completely adjusted and now all your recharges are basically 1sec, with addition of nano cooldowns ... your now a genuine nuking/caster class.
Jan 22nd, 2011, 05:16:06
Metafizis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obtena

And this is a GREAT example of what I'm talking about .... traders shouldn't need to rely on 'trick' nanos to kill anyone because that obvious makes them OPed by definition. BR, GTH, NBS, SS. Almost every nano released since AI is a bandaid fix to a bigger problem. It's about time FC undid the wrongs they made to the trader profession with these things.

OFC ! They should use AS like everyone else!