Fix The Shot in next patch??

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Originally Posted by Ayria

Killing someone and killing everyone are two very different things. I understand, accept, and promote the idea that I will always (and should always) have professions I cannot win against alone.

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But you said anyone. Not everyone. See my signature.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

Not trying to imply anything beyond that Agents can die just like anyone else. The consensus I gather from peoples feelings on Agent and CH is that we don't die, ever. People complain that it's to good a defense and that we should lose it because we never die. I was simply pointing out that, even with a team around us that could make better targets, give us defense buffs, heal us etc we can die in the time it takes our CH to recharge. Even in a situation where we should be well defended with our 'uber' toolkit and the aide of those around us we can die, what does that say about our survivability when it's just us alone? Do you think we are going to get called less or more often when we are alone?

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Again I see nothing here to prompt yet another whine thread inspired by either you or monique or some other random agent I've never heard of. All of the issues which you state are issues for most, not unique to Agents at all. Get called while teamed? Then you die unless you have a doc with you. Get called (thus implying 2+ people attacking you) when alone? Then er, die? You'd die less if you had a completed toon, you know those snare perks work incredibly well for separating a duo.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

CH is not god mode, it is not invulnerability; and I'm tired of people whining about Agents because they refuse to accept that fact.

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No, but it is easily better than a lot of other defenses available in the game.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

Yes, and if Agents can die in 8 seconds after CH we are hardly tanking. But you seem to think we are, so, which is it?

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It isn't that hard for an Agent to reduce the number of professions who can alpha them in 8 seconds to er...Shades.

Yes yes, debuffs. I forgot they all have Target == Agent on them.

Anyway enough of a derail on the "Agents are nerfest" wagon train with an idiot for a driver. I see no reason why this perk shouldn't be able to be queued from sneak and unsneak you when it lands. However I also see no reason why any offensive perk should be able to be used when not in combat.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

But you said anyone. Not everyone. See my signature.

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So I made a typo, sue me. Are you seriously two years old that you have to jump on a typo to make fun of someone?

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Again I see nothing here to prompt yet another whine thread inspired by either you or monique or some other random agent I've never heard of. All of the issues which you state are issues for most, not unique to Agents at all. Get called while teamed? Then you die unless you have a doc with you. Get called (thus implying 2+ people attacking you) when alone? Then er, die? You'd die less if you had a completed toon, you know those snare perks work incredibly well for separating a duo.

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You know those snare perks don't stop anyone who puts IP into runspeed or has GSF, or is ranged..

And, again, I never said Agents were the only ones with these issues. You are making assumptions and running around with them as if they are the ten commandments.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

No, but it is easily better than a lot of other defenses available in the game.

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Really? Try it. Seriously. Get yourself an Agent to TL7 and see just how ****ing uber that CH is. What was that you posted in that other thread about NTs....

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Originally Posted by Hacre

NTs still don't soak more damage than anyone else, not even with a 40k nanopool. People who think so, have never played one..

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So you were saying about Agent defense at TL7? Hmm?

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Originally Posted by Hacre

It isn't that hard for an Agent to reduce the number of professions who can alpha them in 8 seconds to er...Shades.

Yes yes, debuffs. I forgot they all have Target == Agent on them.

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No, never said they did. GTH doesn't have a == NT on it, and while it technically hits you for more that's because you have more to suck before you're nanopool is dry. Everyone hit by GTH ends up with 0 Nanopool. But do you think it's a nerf against you more then others? An RI'd Agent is about as good in PvP as a GTH'd NT, are you going to say GTH is not something to worry about?

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Anyway enough of a derail on the "Agents are nerfest" wagon train with an idiot for a driver. I see no reason why this perk shouldn't be able to be queued from sneak and unsneak you when it lands. However I also see no reason why any offensive perk should be able to be used when not in combat.

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Well best get on that long existing thread asking to nerf every perk that is currently still executable from sneak.... if there was one that is. Gona start one?

If you don't care, why say you don't think it should be used from sneak? Bit of a contradiction there but nothing to worry about, you're Hacre, nothing is true unless you say so.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

So I made a typo, sue me. Are you seriously two years old that you have to jump on a typo to make fun of someone?

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Why not? Remember, you're the one who actually changes dictionary definitions of words to make them suit your argument. Gotta watch these things and catch them early.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

You know those snare perks don't stop anyone who puts IP into runspeed or has GSF, or is ranged..

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Yes they do.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

And, again, I never said Agents were the only ones with these issues. You are making assumptions and running around with them as if they are the ten commandments.

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Then why claim them as relevant in an Agent whine thread?

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Originally Posted by Ayria

Really? Try it. Seriously. Get yourself an Agent to TL7 and see just how ****ing uber that CH is. What was that you posted in that other thread about NTs....

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Then why use it? If it sucks, why use it? Seriously, why?

I'm quite sure it isn't perfect but I'm also damn sure it doesn't suck as hard as people like you try and make it out to be. Because if it did, it wouldn't be VIABLE for you to use now, would it?

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Originally Posted by Ayria

No, never said they did. GTH doesn't have a == NT on it, and while it technically hits you for more that's because you have more to suck before you're nanopool is dry. Everyone hit by GTH ends up with 0 Nanopool. But do you think it's a nerf against you more then others? An RI'd Agent is about as good in PvP as a GTH'd NT, are you going to say GTH is not something to worry about?

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Nope, but I accept the fact that there are debuffs in the game and they'll ruin my moment if I get hit by certain ones. Oh and er, yes, GTH is more of a nerf against NTs than others. It was designed that way. GTH on an NT == no offense or defense.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

If you don't care, why say you don't think it should be used from sneak? Bit of a contradiction there but nothing to worry about, you're Hacre, nothing is true unless you say so.

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Er? You really do lack comprehension. I said I DO NOT SEE A BIG PROBLEM WITH THIS PERK BEING EXECUTED FROM SNEAK, SO LONG AS IT POPS YOU OUT OF SNEAK WHEN IT LANDS. Clear enough? I then dared to offer up an OPINION as to whether I think -any- perks should be able to be launched if you're not in combat. I don't think they should, that doesn't mean I OMGCARE about it, or feel a need to start a bitch thread about it.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Why not? Remember, you're the one who actually changes dictionary definitions of words to make them suit your argument. Gotta watch these things and catch them early.

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Look up semantics, and take studies in the uses of words, get back to me. Or do you think that **** and **** and all those lovely swear words actually mean what people use them for? Oh, bit of an issue huh?

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Yes they do.

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Who? You? Need more IP in runspeed then. Tranq at -1200 can sure slow you down but even that combined with Soften Up at -600 for a total of -1800 isn't enough to stop someone with capped run speed. So, try again when you know what you're talking about mkay?

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Then why claim them as relevant in an Agent whine thread?

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Because they are relevant. I'm simply saying they are not exclusive to Agents, a point you are trying to act as if I am disagreeing on or ever implied otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Then why use it? If it sucks, why use it? Seriously, why?

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Why use NBG/NBS? Seriously, why?

Because every bit helps. If you are so dumb that you think anything that isn't god mode isn't of any use at all I'm surprised you can articulate words.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

I'm quite sure it isn't perfect but I'm also damn sure it doesn't suck as hard as people like you try and make it out to be. Because if it did, it wouldn't be VIABLE for you to use now, would it?

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Just like NBG/NBS and NT whines. Omg, the irony...

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Nope, but I accept the fact that there are debuffs in the game and they'll ruin my moment if I get hit by certain ones.

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You are the one that brought up debuffs, I never said I didn't accept them. Don't try to act as you're arguing about a point I brought up.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Er? You really do lack comprehension. I said I DO NOT SEE A BIG PROBLEM WITH THIS PERK BEING EXECUTED FROM SNEAK, SO LONG AS IT POPS YOU OUT OF SNEAK WHEN IT LANDS. Clear enough? I then dared to offer up an OPINION as to whether I think -any- perks should be able to be launched if you're not in combat. I don't think they should, that doesn't mean I OMGCARE about it, or feel a need to start a bitch thread about it.

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InCombat = !InSneak.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

I see no reason why this perk shouldn't be able to be queued from sneak and unsneak you when it lands. However I also see no reason why any offensive perk should be able to be used when not in combat.

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If you want it to require in combat it means we can't be in sneak. Both statements are your opinion. Hence the contradiction.

And I'm the one with comprehension issues?

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Originally Posted by Ayria

Who? You? Need more IP in runspeed then. Tranq at -1200 can sure slow you down but even that combined with Soften Up at -600 for a total of -1800 isn't enough to stop someone with capped run speed. So, try again when you know what you're talking about mkay?

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I stopped paying any serious attention to you here. You're an idiot. But thanks for the entertainment.

-1800 runspeed is nothing folks!

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Originally Posted by Ayria

If you want it to require in combat it means we can't be in sneak. Both statements are your opinion. Hence the contradiction.

And I'm the one with comprehension issues?

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Yes. Because you seem to think an opinion implies a requirement or a want. It doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

I stopped paying any serious attention to you here. You're an idiot. But thanks for the entertainment.

-1800 runspeed is nothing folks!

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Never said it was nothing. I said it won't stop people:

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Originally Posted by Ayria

You know those snare perks don't stop anyone who puts IP into runspeed or has GSF, or is ranged..

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Yes they do.

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You are the one that said they do stop people, I told you how much they decrease and suddenly now it's "oh you're an idiot". :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Yes. Because you seem to think an opinion implies a requirement or a want. It doesn't.

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Lol. This one is priceless; I'm gona save this one and throw it at you when you go and troll something.

How about right now? Your opinion is that The Shot is fine as is... fill in the blank ;)

(And I know what you're going to say, and no I do realize you don't care if The Shot changes, but you aren't doing anything to support it being changed so you obviously are fine with it as is)

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Originally Posted by Ayria

(And I know what you're going to say, and no I do realize you don't care if The Shot changes, but you aren't doing anything to support it being changed so you obviously are fine with it as is)

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*BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT*

Wrong again. If you want me to elaborate further on my throw away opinion on perk execution..

EITHER -all- offensive perks should require you to be in combat to be able to execute them (and I see no reasonable argument for this to not be the case)..

OR The Shot may as well be "fixed" so you can execute it from sneak and it pops you out of sneak when it lands. It is all about parity/fairness/balance you see.

This has bollocks all to do with me WANTING anyone's perks to be "nerfed", what you can accuse me of WANTING here, is fairness. See how that is NOT a contradiction, or do you need pictures?

As for the snare perks, putting a massive wall of -runspeed between you and the person you're getting away from is as good as stopping them. You want to yell about semantics, well fine, no, you pedant, SNARE perks don't STOP people but they SLOW THEM DOWN PLENTY for them to be EFFECTIVE. Especially seeing as those snares cannot be removed.

tranq -1200 run speed

soften up -600 run speed

the shot -500 run speed

we are now at -2100 run speed


that, my friend, on nearly any self non advy/fixer is a freaking unbrakeable and unremoveable ROOT. if it isnt, well you might aswell be rooted, cause you aint going nowhere. not to mention, and never forget, agents even do have nano roots :)


but wait, i just gotta IP run speed and then im imune right? ill side with hacre on this one, if you honestly think your CH is crap, your snare perks are crap, your AS is crap and ubt is crap, why the **** are you even playing agent?!?!?!



most if not ALL people that plays agent plays for those exact tools, snare perks AS CH and UBT, its your tools and they work, if you argue otherwise, you are just as clueless as my orgmate which is a 220 advy that says advy sucks ass in pvp all the time. you want to know how it is to have a hard time in mass pvp? play MA, not agent.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

*BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT*

Wrong again. If you want me to elaborate further on my throw away opinion on perk execution..

EITHER -all- offensive perks should require you to be in combat to be able to execute them (and I see no reasonable argument for this to not be the case)..

OR The Shot may as well be "fixed" so you can execute it from sneak and it pops you out of sneak when it lands. It is all about parity/fairness/balance you see.

This has bollocks all to do with me WANTING anyone's perks to be "nerfed", what you can accuse me of WANTING here, is fairness. See how that is NOT a contradiction, or do you need pictures?

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You never said or until now.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

I see no reason why this perk shouldn't be able to be queued from sneak and unsneak you when it lands. However I also see no reason why any offensive perk should be able to be used when not in combat.

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However I also... do you know what that means? However I also...

AND. Not OR.

Adding things in suddenly because you got called on something isn't going to exempt you from anything.

But you are learning semantics, now learn that changing a definition only goes so far as long as its logical. Every single meaning of "also" and any of its synonyms or roots leads to "and also". In order for semantics to work you have to use a word that could mean something else because its definition or its root words are open to interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

As for the snare perks, putting a massive wall of -runspeed between you and the person you're getting away from is as good as stopping them. You want to yell about semantics, well fine, no, you pedant, SNARE perks don't STOP people but they SLOW THEM DOWN PLENTY for them to be EFFECTIVE. Especially seeing as those snares cannot be removed.

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I wasn't yelling about semantics. I told you to look them up yes, and had you done so you'd know that while semantics is the act of arguing about the definition of words and/or changing the definitions of words things have to be kept within a realistic value. Saying suddenly that your statement of 'snare perks do stop people' is suddenly now just 'they slow them down' is not semantics, its a scape goat to make it look like you didn't **** up.

I pointed this out above too just in case you missed it.

@ Heartless:

Tranq: 1 sec execution, 25 sec duration, 1min recharge -1200 runspeed
Soften Up: 1 sec execution, 18 sec duration, 2 min recharge, - 600 runspeed
The Shot: 5 sec execution, 20 second duration, 2min recharge, - 500 runspeed

-2100 total runspeed. runspeed cap is?

If you don't have capped runspeed that's your own fault, and if you do have capped runspeed then you won't be stopped. As well the odds of having all three perks ready, and have all three perks land (not resisted) and land before you die need to be considered before judging how effective they are.

But this snare discussion wasn't about if they are useful, I never said they weren't. I just said they don't stop people.

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Originally Posted by Ayria

You never said or until now.

However I also... do you know what that means? However I also...

AND. Not OR.

Adding things in suddenly because you got called on something isn't going to exempt you from anything.

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What? You're an idiot. Look at what you quoted. "I also see no reason why ANY offensive perk should be able to be used when not in combat".

Any. ANY. A N Y

Not -just- The Shot. Which says exactly the same thing as I elaborated upon because you were too busy trying to look clever.

Yes Ayria, you're quite right. Everyone has complete possibility to have their runspeed way over 2500. Even those with dark blue runspeed. I suppose your runspeed is way over 2500 before you're even 220? Forget the fact that -1800 - -2100 to that means you may as well be stopped because you'd be back to TL3 levels of runspeed, IN A TL7 ENVIRONMENT.

But, classic Ayria in action. No real argument to the points at hand, so we'll latch on with some pseudo intellectual "understanding" of English.

So when do the complete lies about what words mean come?

Bump for fix :)

lol at hacre / ayria post slaughter festival... i have to admit, i didnt read the last pages of verbal "pingpong"

just like to add, that most agents posting on forums agree with me , that it would be no problem to drop fast, if we could at least insta asplt an oponent at will b4 we go down like a shade f.e. ... we all rolled "assasins" to kill people fast and be squishy (e.g wikipedia statemen: Its a game profession usually rolled by more experienced players) With the outgiven HP to every profession it is no more given to be like that, and after the shot nerf, its pretty hard for most non ai30 agents to kill 50% of the targets at PvP alone. thats a fact.

And it still remians, we either lack defense to be a support profession, or lack offense to be the assasins we would like to be again.

and for once again, me myself i can live without defense, i prefere to be an offensive killer with a toolset to get away

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Originally Posted by Pheddy

lol at hacre / ayria post slaughter festival... i have to admit, i didnt read the last pages of verbal "pingpong"

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ppl read hacres posts? O.o

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Originally Posted by Hacre

What? You're an idiot. Look at what you quoted. "I also see no reason why ANY offensive perk should be able to be used when not in combat".

Any. ANY. A N Y

Not -just- The Shot. Which says exactly the same thing as I elaborated upon because you were too busy trying to look clever.

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Where did I say just The Shot? Hmm? Looky there, yet another twist from Hacre because he can't be bothered to take things as they are. Gota twist words to get some little tidbit of leverage to make a foothold with.

You have made assumptions left right and center and yet still you act as if it is I who am trying to look clever. You specifically and very explicitly said that Agent snare perks stop people, and now look, those arguments are gone and replaced with this "oh well ya you're right but..." crap because you just have to get that last little thing in.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Yes Ayria, you're quite right. Everyone has complete possibility to have their runspeed way over 2500. Even those with dark blue runspeed. I suppose your runspeed is way over 2500 before you're even 220? Forget the fact that -1800 - -2100 to that means you may as well be stopped because you'd be back to TL3 levels of runspeed, IN A TL7 ENVIRONMENT.

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I never said they'd be in any good condition or have much of a fighting chance, these are things you are bringing in; I had simply stated that the snares won't stop people and you've been looking for some victory in whatever way you can from that part of our debate. I never said it wasn't a big snare, never said it was useless or weak or in need of a boost or left anyone in any good situation. I said it doesn't stop them. That has been proven, continually making points from some obscure angle as if to refute the fact for whatever reason, is a vain attempt.

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Originally Posted by Hacre

But, classic Ayria in action. No real argument to the points at hand, so we'll latch on with some pseudo intellectual "understanding" of English.

So when do the complete lies about what words mean come?

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So I'm the one with no argument? Last I checked your precious little points have been dwindling down; I think we just finished this whole big thing about snare perks...

What points haven't I addressed hmm? Or perhaps should that be " which points have I not addressed (read: answered) in the way you think it should be addressed"?

And for the last time, look semantics up in the ****ing dictionary, go find yourself a group of writers or advanced English courses and ask them about semantics and changing the definitions of words.

Lets make it easy, do you use the word sh*t? Ever utter it in frustration or disappointment? Bet you have, who hasn't. Guess what, it's dictionary definition has nothing to do with emotional response or insults its a bowel function and yet people use it on a daily basis as if it signifies frustration etc, why? Because its definition has been changed. Get it into your head alright? The next time you say sh*t or hear it, think "Hmm, here's a word we use in a manner not defined in the dictionary, that's proof right there that we can change what a word means". Got it?

Or are you going to go around to everyone you hear utter sh*t and tell them that they're using the word wrong?

.. this is stupid. Turned into a pissing match between Ayria and Hacre. Awesome.

I do believe they're trying to see who can make more quote boxes.

Hard to say who's winning at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Pheddy

among best healers in game? c´mon , you can do better then that paf.... it needs more then a heal ot make up for survivablity, and we both know that btw... reading thru your lines shows, that you also think we dont have enough dmg to be assasins.. great, we both agree on some point^^

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Survivability is defined by 4 things in mmorpgs:

1.) Heals - agents have that, 3rd best in the game infact.
2.) Evades (evades don't really exist in AO, just a chance that your opponent will miss you, which are two completely different things. Seeing as they don't exist <-> they don't work.) - OK screw that.
3.) HP - agents have that, being that HP setup ones are unkillable by some professions in a one on one situation.
4.) Damage absorption (in AO that's blockers, absorbs and reflects) - generally everyone has 30% or more reflect in pvp any way you look at it.

Now what defines assassins are:

1.) High damage payload in a short timespan - agents have that.
2.) Low survivability - assassins are a hit and run class, if a gank fails the assassin doesn't stand a chance anymore. >>But running about in circles spamming the same buttons over and over while the melee person is helpless is not low survivability. Getting alphaed by someone then fully healing that damage in 8 seconds is not low survivability. Having high HP and being the 3rd best healer ingame is not low survivability.<<

Now I know everyone here lives in denial, no matter how powerful their profession is they'll still negate it, whine about how they need more.
You wanna play a real assassin ? Good then you can have The Shot back with no requirements at all but at the price of losing 5k hp and heals altogether. But how many newbgents, wannabe assassins, would bitch and complain about losing that "crappy" CH ? I can't imagine. You say you wouldn't, heh here's a tap on the back fella for being such a good sport!

PS. one big lol at Ayria.

god i hate forum trolls. maybe the trolls here that speaks like they knew all about agents actualy make a 220 and show us how to pwn evryone? becose it sounds like they have some incredible skills to a profession they dont even use, its amazing. wish i had such skills.

Hacre would probably play an agent better then 90% of the 220 agents out there even tho he doesn't have one. There's a slight difference - just having a char and playing it OR having a brain, the char and playing it. A brain comes in handy.

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Originally Posted by Pafpuf

Hacre would probably play an agent better then 90% of the 220 agents out there even tho he doesn't have one. There's a slight difference - just having a char and playing it OR having a brain, the char and playing it. A brain comes in handy.

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you are probably jealous :p