Agent pvm-damage stagnates after tl5 and up

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Dec 19th, 2012, 06:20:12
sultryvoltron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psikie

I don't see your point with this post. Why are you comparing Age v pet classes?

To counter your point, neither of those pet profs can heal like Age can. It's called a trade off when you can do almost anything in fp why are you unhappy? Heck we should all be upset we can't cast Touch of Marius or get to GM level lol. Maybe someone should make a game suggestion to add a +20 Vorpal Sword of Mountain Slaying to the database.

Because the two pet classes mentioned are two of the absolute highest DPM professions in game.

An Agent, who has significantly less survivability than both professions throughout the levels, does less damage than both of those professions, even in a setup designed to make the best use of the prof's naturally high add damage.

Basically, if a profession has less defense and less damage than another profession in exchange for better (but not actually usable) healing, then there are some PvM concerns which need addressed.

P.S. DD setup Rifle Agents do less damage than DD setup Doctors.
Dec 19th, 2012, 21:35:39
drainbamage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psikie

I don't see your point with this post. Why are you comparing Age v pet classes?

To counter your point, neither of those pet profs can heal like Age can. It's called a trade off when you can do almost anything in fp why are you unhappy? Heck we should all be upset we can't cast Touch of Marius or get to GM level lol. Maybe someone should make a game suggestion to add a +20 Vorpal Sword of Mountain Slaying to the database.

It's a tradeoff that is almost purely negative in PVM.
When putting a raid together nobody wants a crappy DDer who can also throw out crappy heals when you can just get another crat/engineer/shade/whatever.
Dec 20th, 2012, 05:24:11
Psikie

You guys are serious I see. Can you honestly say there would be a situation where you have 6man raid team with no doc where you would choose an engi or crat over an Age in fp doc? I would even choose Age over advy in a lot of situations personally.

Now if you are saying you lack some epeen roll shade or sol, but AO is supposed to be a team environment and everyone on a team has a place. Know your roll and do it. If anything complain that no one wants an Age unless they need you to fp something other than Age lol. Then pat yourself on the back that you can fit into 99% of teams if the team lead has 1/2 a brain.
Dec 20th, 2012, 06:06:31
Contra

you really overestimate the usefulness of an agent in pvm. If you are doing anything in sl, mimic doc is useless. What else are you gonna use the agent for, if not for heals? 7% crit? calming abilities? pnh/ior? behe? lol
Dec 20th, 2012, 07:04:08
sultryvoltron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psikie

You guys are serious I see. Can you honestly say there would be a situation where you have 6man raid team with no doc where you would choose an engi or crat over an Age in fp doc? I would even choose Age over advy in a lot of situations personally.

Now if you are saying you lack some epeen roll shade or sol, but AO is supposed to be a team environment and everyone on a team has a place. Know your roll and do it. If anything complain that no one wants an Age unless they need you to fp something other than Age lol. Then pat yourself on the back that you can fit into 99% of teams if the team lead has 1/2 a brain.

If we were rolling RK missions with froobs, sure an Agent can function just as well as a Doctor.

In the real world, an Agent's heals are likely to get them killed in SL, or be to slow (8s recharge) for most endgame encounters.
Dec 20th, 2012, 11:13:18
Lazy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psikie

You guys are serious I see. Can you honestly say there would be a situation where you have 6man raid team with no doc where you would choose an engi or crat over an Age in fp doc? I would even choose Age over advy in a lot of situations personally.

considering the taunt attached to CH i wouldn't take an agent for healing any SL-based encounter.

if the choice was agent heals or no raid, i'd choose no raid. the first CH would kill the agent and then the team will be left with no heals and no CC (since the choice you're offering is agent or crat and we hypothetically picked agent)

if the team has an adv i'd choose a crat over an agent in a heartbeat.

the only use for an agent in pvm currently is in zerg pande as a ubt monkey.
Dec 20th, 2012, 17:21:12
Xootch

lol. like anyone could seriously argue agents are prefered over crats. what game are you talking about? crat is pretty much prefered over anything.
Dec 20th, 2012, 19:32:24
Gatester

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xootch

lol. like anyone could seriously argue agents are prefered over crats. what game are you talking about? crat is pretty much prefered over anything.

beat me to it :p

I would take every profession over an agent except for a second enforcer, second trader, or second adventurer.
Dec 20th, 2012, 19:35:49
Lazy

maybe he was confused and thought it was 2002 and not 2012 :(
Dec 20th, 2012, 20:56:53
Sromp

You know the life expectancy of an agent who CHs in LoX playfields? Last time I healed in 12m I held aggro through a 50k detaunt.
Dec 21st, 2012, 01:57:04
McKnuckleSamwich

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy

the only use for an agent in pvm currently is in zerg pande as a ubt monkey.

any place where there is enough DPS in a force to be flattening a mob in about 10-12 seconds, is an ideal place for Agents to be an AS monkey, not a UBT monkey.

If I see someone UBTing mobs instead of DPSing I'd say they are wasting their time.

DPS>>UBT.

Whenever I play agent in Pande, or inf mishes or whatever, I'm chaining AS's as fast as I can go, and dotting as soon as AS pops.

UBT ~ meh. AS+dots ftw.
Dec 21st, 2012, 05:35:35
Psikie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy

considering the taunt attached to CH i wouldn't take an agent for healing any SL-based encounter.

Maybe not pande/inf missions. I would take an Age fp doc for collector, gauntlet, albratum, and Inf quests lines. 12man, vortex, slowly through APF's and parts of db quest line an Age would work fine also. There are plenty of encounters that a well made tank doesn't need doc to spam CH. I've never met a doc that either had to spam CH on my enfo or that stole aggro from me if he did. Between Imongo/perk taunts/proc taunts/and dd taunt from +dmg shield there should never be a time when tank doesn't have aggro.

Is a doc easier, yes. Is a doc needed 100% of time, no. Can an Age substitute sometimes, yes. I suppose it's always easier to give up and not even try to challenge yourselves in encounters because AO is sooo easy. I on the other hand like doing things unconventionally for the challenge of it.
Dec 21st, 2012, 06:34:14
Contra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psikie

I on the other hand like doing things unconventionally for the challenge of it.

FP doc for collector and gauntlet? ARE YOU INSANE?
1 CH and there is no tank in this world able to grab agro back from the agent in enough time before it's dead. You can CH tank inf mishes on an agent, but any encounter that hits hard is a no go with a CH caster in the team.
Also, no normal doc will ever use CH to heal tanks in SL, or nowhere else for that matter, unless it's a froob doc.
Dec 21st, 2012, 07:11:09
sultryvoltron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malraux

FP doc for collector and gauntlet? ARE YOU INSANE?
1 CH and there is no tank in this world able to grab agro back from the agent in enough time before it's dead. You can CH tank inf mishes on an agent, but any encounter that hits hard is a no go with a CH caster in the team.
Also, no normal doc will ever use CH to heal tanks in SL, or nowhere else for that matter, unless it's a froob doc.

That, and even the 216 heal outheals CH by double.
Dec 21st, 2012, 13:11:46
drainbamage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psikie

Maybe not pande/inf missions. I would take an Age fp doc for collector, gauntlet, albratum, and Inf quests lines. 12man, vortex, slowly through APF's and parts of db quest line an Age would work fine also. There are plenty of encounters that a well made tank doesn't need doc to spam CH. I've never met a doc that either had to spam CH on my enfo or that stole aggro from me if he did. Between Imongo/perk taunts/proc taunts/and dd taunt from +dmg shield there should never be a time when tank doesn't have aggro.

Way to betray the fact that you don't have a damn clue what you're talking about
Dec 21st, 2012, 13:24:14
Contra

Quote:

Originally Posted by drainbamage

Way to betray the fact that you don't have a damn clue what you're talking about

qft
Dec 21st, 2012, 13:48:36
Lazy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psikie

Maybe not pande/inf missions. I would take an Age fp doc for collector, gauntlet, albratum, and Inf quests lines. 12man, vortex, slowly through APF's and parts of db quest line an Age would work fine also.

rofl

Quote:

There are plenty of encounters that a well made tank doesn't need doc to spam CH. I've never met a doc that either had to spam CH on my enfo or that stole aggro from me if he did. Between Imongo/perk taunts/proc taunts/and dd taunt from +dmg shield there should never be a time when tank doesn't have aggro.

correction: there are exactly 0 encounters where a doc has to "spam CH". do you know why? because docs have access to BI which is 2x faster reacharge and heals 1.5x more per pop after heal eff differences compared to an agent using CH will heal 3x hp/min.

the other nice thing about BI is that it doesn't have a 50k taunt attached to it, so it won't peel aggro through 1 imalice and won't kill the caster who will be in recharge for hte next 8 seconds after using it.
Dec 21st, 2012, 13:54:18
Noer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psikie

Maybe not pande/inf missions. I would take an Age fp doc for collector, gauntlet, albratum, and Inf quests lines. 12man, vortex, slowly through APF's and parts of db quest line an Age would work fine also. There are plenty of encounters that a well made tank doesn't need doc to spam CH. I've never met a doc that either had to spam CH on my enfo or that stole aggro from me if he did. Between Imongo/perk taunts/proc taunts/and dd taunt from +dmg shield there should never be a time when tank doesn't have aggro.

Is a doc easier, yes. Is a doc needed 100% of time, no. Can an Age substitute sometimes, yes. I suppose it's always easier to give up and not even try to challenge yourselves in encounters because AO is sooo easy. I on the other hand like doing things unconventionally for the challenge of it.

Well, your post was a lot of fun to read. Other than that its pretty far from reality. An agent would have a hard time even with the sub-bosses in albtraum.

Sure agents can heal inf-missions, but you hardly need any heals there anyway. You need dps. :P
Dec 21st, 2012, 14:42:39
Ciex

Oh noes, agents dmg is low ...

... so what? Someone needs to be the last.
Dec 21st, 2012, 17:12:05
Gatester

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciex

Oh noes, agents dmg is low ...

... so what? Someone needs to be the last.

It shouldn't be agents though, and sharing the lowest point among several professions is just fine as long as the damage is not terrible.

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