Tokens raining from the sky

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Originally Posted by Gatess

You never worked with a dev team in a corporate environment, i take it.

I only blame Means for exposing himself too much and increasing the troll-debate, but thats a risk you have to take in order to get more feedback.

Take a step back and look at the big picture... it used to be a 15'' B/W TV now its a 42'' Plasma. Maybe one day it will be even better.

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Heres very simple job and example for your dev team and corporation.
Mario bros very nice game indeed,first level is quite easy and next one is.bit more challenging and so on and in the goal waits you The Princess.
Now game gets just challenging the more you get forward and same time you get better also atleast you should.
Now someday you actually might save the Princess and ask what now?
People here few years ago was asking that same question what now?
And this koopa came and made every stage flat so you can run to the end without challenges.
I really hope best luck to your dev team since you agree with this kind if thinking,but gamer chooses hard mode.

That's a bad analogy. They aren't making the entire game "flat" (easy), they're making the boring, repetitive parts less so.

Like, in Mario Bros, you could get 99 lives by stomping on a koopa against the stairs near the end of a level at just the right spot and timing that you'd keep jumping and jumping so you could set the controller down and wait for time to almost run out and get a ton of points (and extra lives) for your efforts. Now: if you had to press the jump button each time to do this (rather then it just bouncing you automatically) this would be considered a very very boring activity and not fun at all. Further, if they were to make this mandatory in order to beat Bowser, then you create a grind.

Removing said boring manual jumping and allowing you to just play the game, enjoy it, skip that koopa trampoline and work your way to Bowser wouldn't ruin the game.

Tokens aint issue as you speek about it. Its the OST, which is. Let me get the point:

2 years ago (or bit more, cant recall now exacly) I was wroteing here on forums about OST is killing the game. And it did killed the game. Why,you ask? Because that all old players that got 2 or more 220 chars and wants new toon or twink on TL5/6 dont bother to do normal lvling (which is somewhat forgivable) and use OST/Kite. New players (which are rare thing actually) see only one opportunity to lvl while being /afk. This means no challange. Where it leads?

1st: Old players get lvls fast w/o much efort, twinking, running
2nd: New players get the same, but true is, they dont know the game so everything is HARD to them, since lvling how they know so far, was being /afk and watching TV or pretending they are pressing buttons (wearing med suit and island weapons)

The OST/Kite Mechanics allowed to skip almost all content to lvls (160 chars in Ely, omg) but along with this easy option, cut the whole game for new ones or those who wanted to play. Example? Here it goes:

When I was lvling my NT last few days, I only GET Invite to /kite /ost teams (ONLY!). After severals denies (since I wanted to make RK missions for XP, Tokens) i was many times kicked due refusing Kite (That DID happened several times!).

What it has to tokens? Token, as you stated and I aree with that, was not luxury expansive product, but it was prestige along with great boost to characters stats and twink abilities (tl4+), now they must buy it, so they dont need to play the game. I dont like it.

Will I buy tokens? Yes. Sorry for saying this, but if I cant get LE team or RK mish, I dont find it nice to solo the game all long for 2 weeks (around 3hrs /day to get 1k tokens).

Now, Tokens and OST have much in common. Old players wined about dificulties when they wanted to lvl fast, and didnt get tokens for OST, so they whined about lack of tokens. FC provided BS PVP daily, regular Daily, AI daily and tokens are indeed falling from the sky. Now, to support those old dogs, they sell them.

If those old dawgs, bored players would granted with Prelvled char (those 49,99,149,199), with fair price, it WONT stop OST, and still will lead to produce nab players which will whine at forums that things are "too dificult".

Removing tokens from Shop can only be done, when FC will destroy OST/Kiteing - this way either team will be strong enough to do hecklers or happy enough to do Team miss if they wont be able to /afk kite borgs. And tokens will flow easly like 50 a day while progresing, and I belive any character (as it used to be before SL), will be granted 250 tokens before lvl 50 and around 800 tokens before lvl 100. And it should be like this, not buyable item.
I shall mention, that RK mish gives more XP then Ely hecks, when you are lvl 120-130 and pull out ql 215 mish (mobs are easier to kill then hecks too...).

Remember FC, Token is AWARD!

I think it's rather stupid to associate and item or some number of things as a status symbol, It's such a shallow concept to think you are great because of that. No one runs around doing /prostrate to people with 2500 Tokens. That's such a fallacy. If you want some status, make a name for yourself helping people out or running public APF sessions, not wagging your tokens in people's faces (Mind you, tokens that almost everyone has anyways :rolleyes:)

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Originally Posted by Siyra

Like, in Mario Bros, you could get 99 lives by stomping on a koopa against the stairs near the end of a level at just the right spot and timing that you'd keep jumping and jumping so you could set the controller down and wait for time to almost run out and get a ton of points (and extra lives) for your efforts. Now: if you had to press the jump button each time to do this (rather then it just bouncing you automatically) this would be considered a very very boring activity and not fun at all. Further, if they were to make this mandatory in order to beat Bowser, then you create a grind.

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Best analogy of the major faults of AO gameplay I've seen yet. I don't like the item store, I think selling yesdrop token packs is stupid, but so is grinding hours and hours to get a good token board. A daily mission gives you something like 10 level-based token rewards, so whatever. And as someone else mentioned, as much as I hate RMT I understand that it's not going away so I suppose Funcom might as well get a piece of the action--within reason.

AO is a product of that late 90s, early 2000s MMO era when having marketing slogans like "it takes five full days to cross the map!" and "the level grind will take you the rest of your natural life!" made you cool. This is simply not the case anymore, and if Funcom expects anybody to pick up AO going forward then one way or another some stuff like token grinding needs to go by the wayside.

I don't really know Mario Bros and that might be why I don't understand the analogy: waiting 20 sec while he's jumping seems much more boring then jumping 20 times. The undoubted number 1 of boringness is waiting imo. And getting stuff for free (i.e. without doing something that made you earn it) is also pretty boring. I hate tokens and vp being sold in the itemstore.
And tokens are not mandatory (neutral being a good example).
Also there are people that like the grind. They want to show of how crazy they are and enjoy the reward of grinding-pain more then the pain hurts them. With the daily missions most of the token-grind was taken away anyway. Only a little work (so it shouldn't be a grind) should be enough. Unless you powerlevel or buy a level.

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Originally Posted by Obtena

I think it's rather stupid to associate and item or some number of things as a status symbol, It's such a shallow concept to think you are great because of that. No one runs around doing /prostrate to people with 2500 Tokens. That's such a fallacy. If you want some status, make a name for yourself helping people out or running public APF sessions, not wagging your tokens in people's faces (Mind you, tokens that almost everyone has anyways :rolleyes:)

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THIS. Omg this.

Can I hug you?

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Originally Posted by Edta

I don't really know Mario Bros and that might be why I don't understand the analogy: waiting 20 sec while he's jumping seems much more boring then jumping 20 times. The undoubted number 1 of boringness is waiting imo. And getting stuff for free (i.e. without doing something that made you earn it) is also pretty boring. I hate tokens and vp being sold in the itemstore.

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The difference is you can do something else while waiting.

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And tokens are not mandatory (neutral being a good example).

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They are mandatory if you want to be the best you can be. And neutral is a good example of intentionally gimping yourself in exchange for dubious benefits.

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Also there are people that like the grind. They want to show of how crazy they are and enjoy the reward of grinding-pain more then the pain hurts them. With the daily missions most of the token-grind was taken away anyway. Only a little work (so it shouldn't be a grind) should be enough. Unless you powerlevel or buy a level.

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I doubt that the people who enjoy grinding are anything but a tiny minority. To most people it is at best a necessary evil and at worst a dealbreaker.

I happen to like RK missions. The new tokens (from daily mission mechanics) just means that I have more tokens than I need, earlier than I did before.

I won't be buying tokens from any source (never did that before) and I won't be joining any teams that allow me to level /afk either.

I am more than happy with people spending their money and /afking to endgame - just to get bored and leave.

Don't get me wrong, I love daily missions. Each one = one less INF mission I need to do.

The bottom line, there are things people like - and will grind for; and things people do not like. I will do RK missions because I like them. I will not do INF missions, because I don't like them ....

It bothers me not that someone who doesn't have a clue on how to play their character has multiple 220's (when I still only have 1); as I have enjoyed the journey.

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Originally Posted by Edta

I don't really know Mario Bros and that might be why I don't understand the analogy: waiting 20 sec while he's jumping seems much more boring then jumping 20 times. The undoubted number 1 of boringness is waiting imo.

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Both automatic and manual jumping would be boring, that's the whole problem. It's that boring activity that becomes a grind that we need to get rid of.

Strange that in every thread about the Item Store making things easier and more convinient for players is allways thought about in the context of teh game as it currently is, yet whenever someone raised issues with topics such as rebalancing people are flamed for not thinking about how the game will become.

I think that the people posting here about making the game too easy are correct. Rather than remove the need to do the 'grind' for levels/tokens/AI exp/insert anything that takes some time to do(or achieve), why don't they (FC) look at different way to make the 'grind' more fun and varied.

I thought they were doing well with Daily mission and extra quest exp but this whole "pay £X and skip the content" thing makes me worried that they'll just stop worrying about making the PLAYING experience better.

Ive just bought 1k token board yesterday and im happy with it. I dont see the point in grinding rka missions with light green mobs or exchanging token guns. Now ill have more time to enjoy playing my character instead of repetable hurting my mind by grinding. Selling PP by FC that can be turned into tokens in fact is something similar to selling creds but way more subtle and doesn’t affect economy by causing inflation. I see nothing wrong with it, cred selling has always been a part of any MMORPG. This way FC does eliminate cred sellers and takes their profit share. I find it to be ok, hell even more than ok, it’s a great idea. The higher game revenue the longer it exists.

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Originally Posted by Ciekafsky

Ive just bought 1k token board yesterday and im happy with it. I dont see the point in grinding rka missions with light green mobs or exchanging token guns. Now ill have more time to enjoy playing my character instead of repetable hurting my mind by grinding.

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I agree with Tanana: fixing a grind is not done by skipping it, but by making it more fun or challenging. In the example of tokens one solution could be that higher missions give more tokens. No more mindless killing of green mobs in tons of RK missions, but fewer missions against challenging dark red mobs...

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Originally Posted by Ciekafsky

Selling PP by FC that can be turned into tokens in fact is something similar to selling creds but way more subtle and doesn’t affect economy by causing inflation. I see nothing wrong with it, cred selling has always been a part of any MMORPG. This way FC does eliminate cred sellers and takes their profit share. I find it to be ok, hell even more than ok, it’s a great idea. The higher game revenue the longer it exists.

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I don't like cred buying/selling at all, but I guess it's near to impossible to shut it down; so in that case it's indeed better the money is going to FC.

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Originally Posted by Edta

I agree with Tanana: fixing a grind is not done by skipping it, but by making it more fun or challenging. In the example of tokens one solution could be that higher missions give more tokens. No more mindless killing of green mobs in tons of RK missions, but fewer missions against challenging dark red mobs...

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Since token boards are highly important (read as vital), that means that you need at least 8k tokens for an account to have the "basic" boards. 20k if you are going for full 220 account at some point in time. Mind-numbing thought...

Add to the 20k tokens whatever else you need and you reach some mind-boggling grind for a full account with 220s. Because, based on what MMOs are, a journey to "enlightenment", in due time, people will aim to get toons to end-game. Some people may prefer level locked twinks and this is why a lot of people already have 2-3 accounts that allow them to have a mix of work in progress toons, level locked twinks, end-game characters and all sorts of experiments with different classes/breeds.

Going through the same motions each time to acquire tokens and research can be discouraging.

The game kept growing bigger and bigger and the standard "must-haves" kept piling up, so it is only natural for FC to try and introduce shortcuts, either free or paid. Especially since a lot of people actually called it quits because of the amount of things that need to be done/acquired.

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Originally Posted by Ciekafsky

Ive just bought 1k token board yesterday and im happy with it. I dont see the point in grinding rka missions with light green mobs or exchanging token guns. Now ill have more time to enjoy playing my character instead of repetable hurting my mind by grinding. Selling PP by FC that can be turned into tokens in fact is something similar to selling creds but way more subtle and doesn’t affect economy by causing inflation. I see nothing wrong with it, cred selling has always been a part of any MMORPG. This way FC does eliminate cred sellers and takes their profit share. I find it to be ok, hell even more than ok, it’s a great idea. The higher game revenue the longer it exists.

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I have been in this game for years and I dont know a single player who bought money from cred seller.seriously it cant be a good business trying to sell credits for like 300 people.
to me it looks like a bad thing,for example me,i used to farm pearls and then i spend those for example token guns,me thinks i helped other player who helped me,which is good thing in massive multiplayer game I think.
but somehow its better to buy from funcom.
and if there really were people buying credits,like a lot of people doing so,,dont you think those cred sellers would be the kings of Anarchy Online now?Yes they would,they could affect the Funcoms moneyflows now,they could have the power to change prizes of everything now pretty much.

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Originally Posted by trollingstones

I have been in this game for years and I dont know a single player who bought money from cred seller.seriously it cant be a good business trying to sell credits for like 300 people.
to me it looks like a bad thing,for example me,i used to farm pearls and then i spend those for example token guns,me thinks i helped other player who helped me,which is good thing in massive multiplayer game I think.
but somehow its better to buy from funcom.
and if there really were people buying credits,like a lot of people doing so,,dont you think those cred sellers would be the kings of Anarchy Online now?Yes they would,they could affect the Funcoms moneyflows now,they could have the power to change prizes of everything now pretty much.

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Who told you its not hapening ?
Look around.

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Originally Posted by trollingstones

I have been in this game for years and I dont know a single player who bought money from cred seller.seriously it cant be a good business trying to sell credits for like 300 people.

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I have same impression myself but on the other hand if no people are buying them than why the hell credit selers are constantly trying to sell them. Someone has to buy them and if he does id prefer this income to be in FCs hands that www j00gotscammedlololol com.

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Originally Posted by Ciekafsky

I have same impression myself but on the other hand if no people are buying them than why the hell credit selers are constantly trying to sell them. Someone has to buy them and if he does id prefer this income to be in FCs hands that www j00gotscammedlololol com.

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I need to find one seller now,then i need to check how much is 1million worth in real money from cred seller,if i find one,borealis here i come.
But,im pretty sure its so cheap compared to funcoms prize so they are not fighting against cred sellers.
but if they are,then they must lower their prizes and so does cred sellers and whats gonna happen then?

(edit) this goes to Gatess also,bacause itsnot happening,therefore 300cc set is not 5000000000000000000000m yet.

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Originally Posted by trollingstones

But,im pretty sure its so cheap compared to funcoms prize so they are not fighting against cred sellers.

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It may be cheaper (im not sure but it was 7-10 euro per 100 mln so not exactly as low as it seems) but FC service is instant and 100% safe.

2500 tokens is not hard. i remember doing the maths and you get somewhere close to 200 tokens a day just from daily + pvp (upgraded 1kboard) daily + elite daily + inferno doja + bs daily. 2 weeks of dailies without handing in a single tokengun bag is hardly a mindnumbing grind (especially considering the exp you get while doing this) and definately not worth shelling out 50 bucks for. just sayin'