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Why would I want 1 skill reset every 100 hours? I say.. You click on the machine.. and you have 2 Hours to use the /reset command on anything except for abilities.
I have lots of skills I want to reset.. maybe about 15-20 or so... Your telling me Im going to have to wait 2000 hours? Sorry but bad idea.
"AO calculates how much IP the player has put into that skill, and adds that to the total that player has"
afraid this might be the fatal flaw here,
because it then does not solve the IP exploits.
(which is half the reason for a wipe)
Perhaps first force a mandatory IP wipe/reset
and then add this nice little machine?
That can be easily solved by doing a very easy (but quite long) procedure.
1. Remove everything manually.
2. You use a machine. Your skill window shows up, but you can now lower skill below the normal values. Chose the way you want your skills to be after the process. You can free up to 5% of your total IP value. Confirm your choises.
3. All modified skill levels, and ability levels, are temporarily saved somewhere.
4. All skills are set to 0.
5. IP is wiped, and set to the amount you should have at your level. People with rings, and exploiters, will be screwed, but that's a small price to pay, isn't it? :)
6. All skills are set to their saved values.
7. Any maps or map upgrades that can't be used with the new map upgrade will me made into map items again, and placed in your reclaim/bank.
8. Character is saved.
9. Equip everything manually again.
Voila! You got yourself a character that not only un-invested a reasonable amount of skill knowledge, and got the IP back for it, but also has any IP lost due to bugs or cost changes replenished.
Make it based on time, since some people are having trouble leveling just because they invested their skills in the wrong place. Once per 50 hours are quite good.
How about this..... Doctors should be able to adjust a person's memory!!! (return IPs to IP pool)
The kit will return IP's based on QL
QL 1-25: 2 pts/100 hours of gameplay, only useable on characters 1-25
QL 26-50: 100 pts/"", ""
QL 51-100: 1000 pts/"",""
QL 101-150: (I'm not sure how much to put here since I'm not in this level range)
QL 151-200: ""
Another money making tech for the Docs!
Or you could make a back alley version for the Fixers!
Heh, make the parts illegal, so only a fixer can get them.
Then get an engineer or trader to put it together.
Then get a doctor to actually do the 'surgery'.
:)
FC has the right idea - if a player has the ability to completely reset one or more skills, it *must* be a one-time event. This would be done only to compensate people who got nerfed and lost IP for whatever reason, thats it. Think about the abuses that would occur, if even it was one skill per week:
* bump up comp lit, equip NCU, de-allocate
* bump up nanoprogramming, combine implants, de-allocate
* bump up treatment, install implants, de-allocate
* bump up base stat, equip armor, de-allocate
Depending on how overequiping is resolved, some of these might not matter. But if tradeskills ever become important, then IP reallocation would kill it - just bump up my stat, make my items, reclaim.
However, in-game reallocation could be made fair if the changes were gradual. For example, consider this system:
* Player levels
* In 30 seconds, every stat is checked to see if its being used to equip armor or a weapon. If so, its marked as tainted
* As the character continues, every time an untainted stat is used in any way (nano formula, equipment) it is marked as tainted
* Next level, player can deallocate (3-5 points) from untainted skills
I think a skill needs to go *completely* unused. For example, if your treatment is 400, even using a QL10 med kit will taint it. It shows you have an interest in the skill, and that you are not actively trying to forget it. So if you go an entire level without throwing a punch, you can deallocate martial arts, or if you go a whole level without swimming, you can deallocate from that or if you go a whole level without equping a car, etc. Some skills, such as life or nano pool, may not be feasible - but its better than nothing. This way a player could ungimp themselves pretty quickly by leveling and reclaiming from unused dark stats (which is logical as well), but it wouldn't destroy the balance of the game.
--Xente
It really needs to be a one time, all or nothing process.
Player gets naked, clicks the machine, ALL skills get's reset to the way they were at the begining, and finally, all reset IP is then distributed however they want.
This should only be done AFTER Funcom gets done nerfing the crap out of all the weapons/skills/classes, so another reset won't be needed again. ;)
If the point of this IP wipe is to rectify IP exploits then why would it be made voluntairy. I think if they were smart enough to get away with the exploit they aren't going to be stupid enough to give it right back by reseting their IP.
And no for IP wipe. Wanna know the reasons. Say for example your a newb. you come across this car and decide you want to equip it. You pump the ground nav up. then later in the game you come across a ql100 yalm that you snap up and pump the IP in Air nav. so now you think you should get all the IP you used for the ground nav to use your vehicle back?? I don't think so. Then farther down the line you get a ql30 yalm and now you have more air nav then you need so you reset your IP again and you should get those IP points back?? I think not.
This game already has relocatable IP. Its called implants. They give you limited ability to be able to switch your main line of weapons or what not as it is be glad for that.
THERE SHOULD BE NO IP WIPES. In real life can you hop back in time and change what you learned in high school?? no you can't you are stuck with what happened early in your life and how it is going to shape your future. I would be extremely disappointed in Funcom if they proceeded with the IP wipe.
Snarf there is no such thing as a fair IP wipe scheme.
To Snarf
Your version allows repeated use of IP wipe feature (in other games called Reincarnation) which is not what Gaute wanted us to have. He said one time only and at selected time and that you cant save it for rainy days. So no time between uses will come (and IMHO should not come). One time will allow me to fix some mistakes I've made and the badly spent IP's because of big game changes caused by FC. One time, thats it.
To Kizzam
Umm :) This is not really an Agent forum but you seriously expect that weapon requiring ONLY rifle skill and aimed shot skill will ever be better than rifle requiring those same skill AND dark blue shotgun skill? Isnt it logical that gun that requires more IP investment and which has the penalty of lowering your ATT rating (my ATT rating went down from 800 to 650 when I equipped mine) should do better damage so no, we are not taking the easy route... you are. Also QL 188 Ranee is BIT more expensive and rare than say QL 200 Dissaffiliation or Ozelot or Stigma (and yes, best QL Lovemaker (which is called Ranee) is QL 188).
So on summary:
Your normal rifle
+ Higher ATT rating
+ Easier to equip and raise that ATT rating
+ Less IP cost to equip
+ Has QL 200 variants
+ Lots of choice
- Not as good as the Lovemaker/Ranee
Ranee
+ Best Rifle there is damage wise
- No QL 200 version (ends at QL 188)
- More IP cost to equip
- Not as easy to overequip or buff for higher ATT rating
- Less ATT rating than with normal rifle
- Only 1 weapon choice/clip size/range
Zarch and bunch of other chars including 119 Agent (which has used Gripo, Stigma, Tsak, Dissaffiliation and Ranee).
I like the idea of being able to take from skills that are unused. I also think that you should be able to reduce a skill completely if you think you aren't ever gonna use it. this should be allowed from the beginning. Basically, you should have the ability to reduce a skill to zero. Once it hits zero, it is no longer possible to increase that skill in any way, with the exception of implants and buffs. Base abilities would no longer have an affect on that particular skill. Kind of like in Jagged Alliance 2 when you are making your character. You can set a skill to zero, but then you can't ever increase that skill.
And for all the people out there who are complaining that an IP reset isn't realistic, because you can't change what you've learned in RL. Doesn't matter if it's realistic or not. You can't teleport from Paris to New York via a Whompa in real life either, but you don't see people screaming to take them out of the game. I completely understand your want to roleplay a well rounded character, and I respect that. But nobody should be forced into that situation just because they made some honest mistakes early on.
Catch ya planetside.
Quote:
THERE SHOULD BE NO IP WIPES. In real life can you hop back in time and change what you learned in high school??
In real life do you pop back out of an insurance terminal when you get shot in the face by a cyborg? Or when a giant killer plant eats you?
To paraphrase the AO manual: You get a fresh start on Rubi-Ka.
I don't see why there's such controversy about skill resets.
I don't care if you like rerolling. Or that you think my being able to reset my skills trivializes YOUR skill choices. There's a lot of work involved in making a decent level character. No matter what skills you take.
I care about me. Having screwed up skills makes me mad. Having my skills screwed up when they were fine before makes me madder. Madness mixes not so well with a subscription-based game.
Any concerns I've seen about IP resets on this thread are that people will boost their complit, equip good NCUs, then drop it. The simple solution is that your Wear panel needs to be completely empty, and this has already been mentioned in Gaute's post.
The other complaints I've seen where regarding flavor of the month type characters. This sort of thing shows weaknesses in the equipment system in the game, and weakness in some of the skills. It is not the responsibility of the player to balance these things, nor is it the responsibility of the player to be victimized by these things and have to constantly reroll.
I oppose any time-based, incremental wipes. I don't need a game to make me sit logged in for hours to correct skill mistakes one tiny bit at a time.
Take a step back here people. It's a game. Is your bitterness about people not having to be perfect to have a good character overriding your sense of fun?
Summation: IP Resets - Yes.
Where is the Risk vs. Reward?
As far as I can tell, the only skill that should be allowed to be wiped is the multi-ranged skill for Advents. Everything else was a choice and you have to DEAL with that choice. Otherwise there is no risk in trying new things.
Pistols are not dead. While nothing can compare to Freedom Arms, EVER and Pistols will never again compete with any other weapon in the game, Sleekblaster Majors, Biomags, Boomers and Match Pistols are still able to pack a punch.
Quote:
Originally posted by Lucid Flow
Where is the Risk vs. Reward?
As far as I can tell, the only skill that should be allowed to be wiped is the multi-ranged skill for Advents. Everything else was a choice and you have to DEAL with that choice. Otherwise there is no risk in trying new things.
Pistols are not dead. While nothing can compare to Freedom Arms, EVER and Pistols will never again compete with any other weapon in the game, Sleekblaster Majors, Biomags, Boomers and Match Pistols are still able to pack a punch.
What about pillows? Me and many others invested ip into pillows to get a +30/+60/+90 bonus. I invested to get +60 now i get +20, i would say that is a good reason for pillow skill ip wipe.
I really like this idea!Quote:
Originally posted by Xente
I think a skill needs to go *completely* unused. For example, if your treatment is 400, even using a QL10 med kit will taint it. It shows you have an interest in the skill, and that you are not actively trying to forget it. So if you go an entire level without throwing a punch, you can deallocate martial arts, or if you go a whole level without swimming, you can deallocate from that or if you go a whole level without equping a car, etc. Some skills, such as life or nano pool, may not be feasible - but its better than nothing. This way a player could ungimp themselves pretty quickly by leveling and reclaiming from unused dark stats (which is logical as well), but it wouldn't destroy the balance of the game.
--Xente
This can be explained RP-wise.
:)
Are you crazed!? A Borg shooting me? I eat Cyborgs for breakfast in IRL ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Red Falcon
In real life do you pop back out of an insurance terminal when you get shot in the face by a cyborg?
You can't just arbitrarily pick a skill and say 'That one needs to be reset' for the entire playerbase. Someone else will pull something out of the air and say 'No, do this skill instead.' The only fair reset is a universal one.Quote:
Originally posted by Lucid Flow
Where is the Risk vs. Reward?
As far as I can tell, the only skill that should be allowed to be wiped is the multi-ranged skill for Advents. Everything else was a choice and you have to DEAL with that choice. Otherwise there is no risk in trying new things.
Besides, you can not reset the adventurer multiranged skill so easily without resetting everything else as well. Do you give them back the amount of IPs as if they raised the skill back when it was blue? Or do you give them back the IPs as if it were the new curve? You have to reset everything, and give the player a pool based on their level, or else you're opening the door to a lot of possible bugs, and an unnecessary level of complexity on the programming end.
But regarding the Risk vs Reward bit.. where's the hammer that smacks my knuckles when I type the wrong thing ingame?
Where's the electric shock when my character dies?
Have the past few bad MMORPGs so brainwashed us that we now are conditioned to want to be excessively punished for our mistakes?
I'd like to think that we can put aside some of said conditioning if it'll help some of the playerbase have more fun. You know, that thing you do in between suffering with bad choices and making sure that everyone has to suffer the same as you did by rerolling.
Having only skimmed through the thread I just want to say this:
If Funcom choose to allow some sort of ip reinbursement, they should go to great lengths to make sure it's not exploitable in any way.
The most obvious exploit is this one. People can use a skill to it's max, then reset it and never use it again. One example is concealment. Agents can make their fortune, earn millions and millions of credits by sneaking missions. Then, when they have their 50-100 mill credits, a complete set of ql 200 armor and weapon sometime around level 110 they can just reset the ip spendt on the skill and use it elswhere.
Same thing with certain weapon combinations. Some are very good at low level, and worse at high level. Allowing people to use a good low level combination, powerlevel and then reset the ip spendt and change to another weapon (or remove weapons all together and rely on pets or nanos for that matter) should be a big no no.
I support the get naked, one time only IP rellocation. Or one for every major rule change.
Simple, the rules have been changed. Weapons that were viable early on are no longuer viable in many cases.
Also alot of us are unclear as what the impact of certain skills are, even now.
As an example, I was lead to beleive early on that psychology affected mission reward by a GM, then found out it had nothing to do with it. Heck I still dont really know what psychology does.
If from the start a clear explanation of every skill was given and nothing would of changed, I beleive we would not need an IP wipe, but this is not the case.
Ander
Someone already said it, and I will back it up.
First off a mandatory IP wipe for everything cept Map nav (Like the one Gaute propsed himself, but mandatory). All items and implants equipped on all chars go into a special container that gets put in a bag in your inventory. All skills and abilities are zeroed and all your IP's are returned into the pool. This is a one thing only, and only reason to do it is to clear out any IP-exploit from the early days.
Next thing is to add Snarf's machine to the game. Instead of taking 100 hours/use make it eat 5 million credits/level of the char who uses it. This will stimulate the economy and make it expensive enough for people to actualy make credits valuable again. (Maybe 5 mil/level is a little much, 1 mil/level could be enough)
The high level play in AO really needs a money drain, there is nothing in the game worth paying for atm.
Wolfe
If a mandatory IP wipe is your thing, read below:
I wonder why map navigation should work differently. Just create items (there are already maps and map upgrades) for each one you got uploaded. Just move them, and all 'permanent' items like nano formulas, to reclaim. Expand the capacity of it, if it limited in any way. Same for all equipped items too.
-->Whisk all players away to a place similar to character creation, where they HAVE to go through deequipping and so, then a IP wipe, and then reallocation. Then they have the option to start at the same place they left, or in one of the backyards for your faction, or your appartment if you have one.<--
If a non mandatory IP partially freeup every now and then is your cup of tea, read this:
(I'm in favour of this, by the way) Place those machines, along with a reclaim, in shops. They can have their own appartments, or their own building somewhere in the major cities. You then have to deequip all things that depends on the skills you want to lower. If you lower map navigation for example, those maps and upgrades that have a higher req than the lowered skill will just pop back into their items and go to reclaim.
Yes, this would make you able to sell your 'old' nano formulas, if you lower the skills enough, but I see no problem with that.
Now, during the server upgrade for the patch that this comes with, or at every patch for that matter, the database is checked, in respect to total amount of IP. Those who got too much of it will be whisked away to the room mentioned in the first part (Yes, you have to read it now. I'll mark it. :) ). Those who got less than what they should have gets their unspent IP pool raised, and they get a really nice message stating:
"The 13400 IP that you've lost due to bugs or balance changes has been returned to your pool. [Insert your own word of praise here.]"
Hope these ideas will be practically useful. Flame away!