Neutral Application Forms

I just found out last night that you cannot convert to Neutral. This really doesn't make any sense to me.

A GM said "Once you have chosen a side in the conflict, you can no longer take a neutral stance." Ok, but I can keep flip flopping between Clan and Omni as much as I want? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I think it is a lot more plausible that an Omni or Clanner would want to remove themselves from the conflict entirely, rather than do a complete 180 and join the other side!

I had the same thought last night as Abdhul - Omni and Clan Resignation forms, that when used, leave you in a neutral state.

I'm neutral, all my alts are neutral (well almost all). I think that the clan/omni forms should have a secondary dialog box after they are 'Used' asking if "Are you sure". Almost all of the other irrevocable actions or 'Uses' in the game have this 'safety catch' with the su****ious exception of this one (~.^ ... :)).

I have also clicked on 'Use' instead of 'Delete', after 2 weeks of leveling, due to an unfortunate lag incident. Resulting in the deletion of the character and starting over to maintain my neutrality. Though now I am more careful now, deleting those forums immediately.

Though I don't agree that there should be Neut Apps or resignation app (sorry guys and gals).

I agree with it as far as it would be usefull and nice for a lot of people but i disagree stronly witht he actual idea.

Neutral is not meant to be considered as a faction, its just where you go if your new to the game and havent decided what side of the confilct you favor. Obviously it isnt anymore thanks to lots of new neutral items and things but i still think it should be if thi game were to be perfect. (dont really care because it doesnt effect me anyway).

I think it is long past due to add a means to leave Omni-Tek or the Clans and become the equivalent of Neutral. If it wasn't possible in a story sense, then their would be no neutrals on Rubi-ka, and certain event story-lines would not be possible, either.

Give players the choice to change.

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Originally posted by Drusillus
...but I can keep flip flopping between Clan and Omni as much as I want? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

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We neuts have a saying. Either you're NOT with us, or you're NOT against us. ;)

Serioulsy I agree to an extent - even though OT and Clan is the result of the same evil conspiracy on this planet (RK2) IMO. I dont want any former omni, or clanner saying that they are neutral just because they've filled out a form.

Maybe there should be a really hard quest or something that you would hafta complete in order to be recognized as a neutral?

Just a thought.

/Zembower

There is a way of converting back to neutral: Start over.

But you Omni and Clan folks, are not willing to do that. You worked so hard to be where you are, you'll say. And to you, Neutrality is not as important as your precious xp.

The fact is when you become an Omni-Tek or Clan employee, you inherit benefits that help you develop. You are in a situation where you have greater assistance. Often that means better armor. Certainly better shops. You get benefits of tokens. I don't need to list em all. You people know what they are.

If you had the ability to convert to neutrality, that would totally throw off the balance. A Neutral develops his character without those benefits. So your envisioned "Neutrality form" would be unfair to Neutrals who earned their levels the hard way.

So, if you want to be neutral, go for it. I encourge it actually. But that means starting over.
Now, any takers?

-blix

Remember that you'd lose your token board when you changed sides. That's in the works right now, to discourage people from switching sides just to get at clan/omni only items. That's most of your advantage right there, and I don't think you'd see too much casual side-switching if people knew thay had to give up a 1k token board to do it.

Well thought out, premeditated side switching I'm all in favour of. If someone decided they picked the wrong side, let 'em defect. If they decide that the whole conflict is a waste of time, great, we'd be more than happy to have you. Rubi-Ka needs more neutrals IMO.

It seems to me that the people who would benefit most from this would be neutrals themselves.

Cheers,

~R~

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Originally posted by silusGrim
I'm neutral, all my alts are neutral (well almost all). I think that the clan/omni forms should have a secondary dialog box after they are 'Used' asking if "Are you sure". Almost all of the other irrevocable actions or 'Uses' in the game have this 'safety catch' with the su****ious exception of this one (~.^ ... :)).

I have also clicked on 'Use' instead of 'Delete', after 2 weeks of leveling, due to an unfortunate lag incident. Resulting in the deletion of the character and starting over to maintain my neutrality. Though now I am more careful now, deleting those forums immediately.

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They do have a confirmation dialog...

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Originally posted by Soyuz
Remember that you'd lose your token board when you changed sides. That's in the works right now, to discourage people from switching sides just to get at clan/omni only items. That's most of your advantage right there, and I don't think you'd see too much casual side-switching if

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Soyuz I don't think you get my point. The token board, along with all the other benefits of your affiliation might go away when you switch sides, but you've already _used_ those benefits to advance your character.
Currently Neutrals develop their characters without having had any of those benefits.
So, again: allowing the switch from an affiliation to neutrality would be unfair to those neutrals that remained dedicated.

-blix

Here's the only thing I don't understand...why play a game about civil unrest and war...but decide to be neutral and not involved? Leave neutral for those who need it: GMs and ARKs...

and how about making clan AND omni guards attack neutrals? This sounds fair to me because I damn well know you neutrals are attacking my clanners in missions...and same goes for those omnis out there :p

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Originally posted by Trey
Here's the only thing I don't understand...why play a game about civil unrest and war...but decide to be neutral and not involved?

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I think that was the original intent. Neutrality was meant as a temporary state until you decided which side you supported. It hasn't worked out that way in practice. Neutrality is held by those who either don't wish to ever side with either faction, or by those who want to play a harder game. I think we might see Funcom nudge Neutrals a bit more forcefully to choose sides when Shadowland is introduced. I'm only speculating though.

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and how about making clan AND omni guards attack neutrals? This sounds fair to me because I damn well know you neutrals are attacking my clanners in missions...and same goes for those omnis out there :p

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Like things arn't hard enough for us Neutrals already, geesh!
Seriously though, there is an RP justification for this, and I don't necessarily oppose it. You are correct that Neutrals do missions against both sides. But then again, if you follow that logic, maybe Neutral or ICC guards should shoot Omni-Tek and Clan citizens?

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Originally posted by Blix
But then again, if you follow that logic, maybe Neutral or ICC guards should shoot Omni-Tek and Clan citizens?

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That's fine with me...because then both Omni and Clan would join together and just crush neutrals off the face of the planet :D

Voice your opinion:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=63526

I whole heartedly aggre for newt forms. Makes no sense not to have them. BUMP!

As a high-level neut, I can say that I support this idea...

First off, the idea that neutral is not a valid stance is absurd. Every game with a side system also supplies a valid reason to be neutral.

Good reasons:
1) You don't like either Clan or Omni political positions
2) You agree partially with both Clan and Omni political positions
3) You compeltely disagree with both Clan and Omni political positions
4) You don't give a rat's arse about either Clan or Omni political positions
5) You want to conduct universal business with both sides (mercenary work, for instance...)
6) You view fighting a "war" in a land where nobody ever dies as futile and stupid.
7) You wish to be a poltical "bridge" to negotiate peace.
8) You hate both sides and wish to wage war against them both.

All 8 are plenty valid. There are probably more.

Another reason for it is the fact that the "conflict" itself is so downplayed and ignored within the actual storyline, that a character may simply find it silly and pointless to be sided.

At any rate, I enjoy being neutral...My org has a valid (IMO) political stance, and we interact with my other RP OT/Clan orgs on a regular basis attempting to mediate and lead the way to eventual peaceful resolution. (Just the view of my org...plenty of other reasons to be a neut.)

Now, while I'll admit that being a high-level neut is a bit of a status symbol--really, it's playing this game on "hard mode"--I do have a lot of sided friends that feel similar to me in an RP sense regarding the political situation, and would love to go neutral.

I think it's silly they can't... Folks can swap Clan/Omni just to get whoever's controlling Tara loot--yet the tara admins give lame-arse RP excuses as to why neuts can't participate. The fact that folks view it as "riding the fence", yet these are often the same people who go Omni/Clan just to get Tara loot, equip Khaelar sleeves, and whatever other power-gamer tactics that are employeed to that end, is simply absurd.

Of course, a key reason Funcom wouldn't want to do this, is that they would lose control of their "storyline" they dreamed up 4 years ago and continue to force on us with no input whatsoever. Impact our world? B.S. This story was designed years ago, and will trod along without any (or very little) modification by players' opinions.

If the "neutral faction" gained any kind of larger demographic, it would really throw Gaute's gameplan out the window... This is why he tries to keep people from staying neutral for long, or giving them the ability to switch to it.

Funcom views the story as black/white, with no room for gray... which is amusing, since there is very little BUT gray in this game. People swap sides just to get items, people cross-team consistantly, Omni hang out in Tir grid, etc...I could go on and on.

-Jayde

If I could be Neut again I would in a heartbeat.

I was lvl 123ish when I "sided" though it was in the sake of Roleplaying, my character had a valid excuse and it fit in. Now that her excuse for siding has quit the game, its left my character stranded still neutral at heart.

Im not a powerlvler.. I haven't bought one single nanocrystal or whatever sided people can buy that neuts cant... and my token board is at an "impressive" 40 tokens... the only benifit that is cool about being an Omni in MY opinion is that awsome Elite Armor which yeah yeah its stupid but I love the look and my character is a slave to fashion, but given the oppertunity Id take a snapshop in my Elite Armor then kiss it goodbye.

/me clicks her heels closes her eyes tight and says ..."there's no place like home.. there's no place like home... opens her eyes and realizes she still isn't neutral... tries again.. and again and again...sigh.

I'm going to try to cobble together a quasi real life situation of why you can't really cant be 'neutral' once you're already identified as something and why neutral shouldn't necessarially mean 'safe'.

I accept the fact that, as an American, there are certain parts of the world that I am either not welcomed, or would face open hostility even death by being dragged behind a car or tank or something. For whatever reason, I could say "I'm no longer an American!", fine, that may work in my mind. I go to certain areas of the world that still ID me as an american, I could end up dead. My perceptions of my neutrality don't make me any safer. You might be able to get by if you convert to the thinking and affiliation of where-ever you end up, but just professing your neutrality would offer no safety.

For the game, I don't think you can choose to be neutral as a classification again. But I do think they should let you be able to form a guild that doesn't listen to Omni, Clan or Neutral affiliation however. If you wanna hook up with like minded individuals, clan, omni neutral or otherwise, you should be able to. Anyone know if you can actually do that now? Or are guilds faction restricted?

Losobal...nice example.

Guilds do require all members to be of the same side/faction. Always have and probably always will.

I fully agree. I'm Omni ti'll the day i die (for good). But if i ever did leave omni for whatever reason, i'd NEVER go clan. In character roleplaying aside, i really really really dislike the whole clan concept. I would never be clan IRL, they disgust me. I'm not trying to diss, but i really don't the like the clan idea. Capitalism all the way baby.

So make being neutral a posibility.

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Originally posted by Losobal
I'm going to try to cobble together a quasi real life situation of why you can't really cant be 'neutral' once you're already identified as something and why neutral shouldn't necessarially mean 'safe'.

I accept the fact that, as an American, there are certain parts of the world that I am either not welcomed, or would face open hostility even death by being dragged behind a car or tank or something. For whatever reason, I could say "I'm no longer an American!", fine, that may work in my mind. I go to certain areas of the world that still ID me as an american, I could end up dead. My perceptions of my neutrality don't make me any safer. You might be able to get by if you convert to the thinking and affiliation of where-ever you end up, but just professing your neutrality would offer no safety.

For the game, I don't think you can choose to be neutral as a classification again. But I do think they should let you be able to form a guild that doesn't listen to Omni, Clan or Neutral affiliation however. If you wanna hook up with like minded individuals, clan, omni neutral or otherwise, you should be able to. Anyone know if you can actually do that now? Or are guilds faction restricted?

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That's not a very good example...here's why...

1) In AO, things are handled as such that in your example you could be an American, then suddenly decide to become Chinese. When you go the China, everyone views you as Chinese, when you go to America, you're the enemy. Then, somewhere down the line...maybe China gets thwomped by another country, you decide you want to to be an American again. No problem! Just use an application form, and viola! Oh? You killed American's before? Ah well...no biggie.

2) You decide you don't want to be American any more, and want to adobt a more neutral political stance... Ok, you're Canadian now. When you go to a foreign country, you tell them you're Canadian. They're not gonna know you were American, and they won't care. (Actually, this is a tactic employed by many a wise American tourist! lol)

3) It simply doesn't apply because it is based on the theory that there is a physical difference that would cause people to make a hasty decision one way or the other without thinking about it. In a situation where people are visually similar, this is not the case.

4) You would still be American. It is your race. You cannot change that. The difference here would be more akin to being a Republican or Democrat...then deciding to become an Independant. Omni/Clan is nothing more than a political affiliation. Both sides have the same racial allocation.

5) I don't think anyone ever bombed the Swiss. ;)

Another funny thing... What do you define as a "neutral affiliation?" lol There is no such thing. The thing you describe IS NEUTRALITY! A state in which both sides are not explicitly in play. Neutrality is not a rival political orginization. Neutrals have no "leader", no "government", no specific "mission." That's the point of being neutral.

People should have the right to become unaffiliated. ESPECIALLY if the game provides a way to swap to the OPPOSITE affiliation so easily. lol

-Jayde