Wall of text, read teh underlined/highlighted point at least
Wall of text, read the underlined/highlighted point at least
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obtena
1. Adding a nano damage debuff component to the damage debuff line
2. Changing some of the specialization requirements so they are more inline with the QL of the nanos
3. Reducing the scaling of the requirements on the health plunder so it can be self casted by the appropriate level trader
4. Do something more useful with (or remove) pets.
There are more, but I shouldn't need to list them all .. everyone here should be able to think of things as well. The problem is that I don't see too many others making suggestions in-line with the direction of the document. There is little value added by complaining and making suggestions that are relevant for a concept that is not being considered in what is likely an almost completed document. I think FC is WAY beyond that stage.
The problem I have with the majority of the population is that simply saying "I have no defence now and prof X will kill me, please fix" isn't any more a suggestion than flaming is. What is a dev supposed to do with that? That really doesn't register to the holistic approach to the changes happening to everyone.
I know there are experienced traders out there and I'm confident that with a bit more objectivity on their part, they can present some great ideas if they embrace the direction of this nano document.
Now, if people would get past their OWN ideas what what should and shouldn't be happening to traders as a concept, recognize the direction that FC is taking with the trader profession in this document and make suggestions to MAKE THAT direction better.
Do you honestly think that at this stage, even if it's better, a concept a player has for traders will be implemented over the one that the FC devs have devised for traders?
The concept is fixed.
If something was removed completely, It's REALLY unlikely it will come back.
I'm certain the devs are VERY conscious of their decisions to remove these things.
Thank you for a constructive approach, see this I can reply to and find holes in; counter-arguing "it is obvious" is impossible :)
A very nice post, with good thoughts.
The first thing being:
I think it is worth fighting for the status quo of traders being traders, not givers.
That a trader can either buff himself through draining -or- buff himself through draining and pass that -and more- onto his team.
A concept you do not see in other games out there, giving AO a unique advantage. Going away from it will hurt the trader fanbase, and make AO less significant in the blob of "DPS vs. healing" MMOs.
It is a unique and interesting approach.
In earlier posts I have noted down exactly what it is I like about it and why, so if a dev is in doubt why, please ask, and the trader community can answer what they like about the trader profession, and why.
In short I disagree at the point that we NEED to rename Traders to givers..
and on a so fundamental issue, it is a disagreement, not a "we can win you over" kind of thing.
1. Adding a nano damage debuff component to the damage debuff line
-To me this is a bug fix.
2. Changing some of the specialization requirements so they are more inline with the QL of the nanos
-tweaking (a good thing), but not redefining the profession.
3. Reducing the scaling of the requirements on the health plunder so it can be self casted by the appropriate level trader
-a good thing
4. Do something more useful with (or remove) pets.
- To be honest I see the pet as a fun-factor ala Agent holograms, Engineer slayerdroid transference, adventurer leet morphs(could just be a concealment buff). But fine if people have constructive feedback about enhancing them to actual use.
The issues not, or likely touch are:
Code:
.
.
.|
. |
. |
. |
. |
. |
. |
. |
QL 200
X is QL, Y is powerfulness of nano
Which is the general issue with the current state of the game, for every profession.
But actually the issue for traders is this:
Code:
.
.
. |
. |
. |
. |
. |
. |
. |
. |
lvl 200
X is -LVL- of trader, Y is powerfulness of nano
The issue there being lvl / spec locked nanos in a skill based game, along with a game made to max at lvl 200 continuing with 200 extra lvls (RK = 1 perk/10 lvls, SK = 1perk/lvl -> 20 SL lvls = 200 RK lvls).
Each new or each 2nd SL lvl should have a new nano, is we go by that scaling, but it doesn't, hence the raise in stat-power is disproportionate to the increase in nano-casting power.
Every lvl locked nano makes gaps like this in a skill-based environment.
Hear the MPs complaining of "the gab before we have a new pet", the doctors "..until you can use the next SL heal".
It is profound with newcommers, wondering why it is so, while the established players have gotten used to it..
I hope this is the time for a change, why I think that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Means
Level locking is bad…using by skill is good. Profession locked items are unlikely. More breed diversity is likely…items may well play a part in this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Means
Level locks are bad. I still feel that way. Things are not always black and white unfortunately. No matter how much some of us wish they were.
[on the HH@b change]I do not like level locks but there was no other way to remove this from players of that range. I would prefer to have switched it to a pure skill requirement...but removing it based on people not meeting that skill requirement on log-in would produce obvious results in this game.
The underlined counter-argument is not valid when it comes to nanos and re-balancing, hence the "pure skill based system" is approachable.
Why this fundamental issue in the Trader forum?
Because it is dominant with a profession that can raise it's own skill, MPs have the same issue.
Raising casting skill with casting is a cool idea, that makes AO unique and innovative, it should be embraced, and the issues solved, now we have the re-balancing act.
If the developers have something they call "3rd draft", putting the foot down and directly and clearly say "this is the direction we are to take, we will not budge", then sure we can come with innovative suggestions along that line..
But the earlier you are in a decision process, the easier it is to change fundamental things.. then you can talk numbers later.
and what I see in this debate is:
"we like drains as our way of defence", "we like the choice of either buffing our selves with the drains -or- pass it to the team".
The concern is the graph showing no increase in power for several lvls, and topping out -under- the power of other professions. other professions that are easier to play (needs less actions).
Active gameplay -> more damage.
as a philosophy.
Sadly traders are labour intensive -which pays off at lower lvls, both in PVM and PVP-, BUT it diminishes through the higher lvls, when you cast the top nano at lvl 150 and get nothing better, while other professions progress..
you do get -some- progress but mostly it is scarce and lvl/spec locked.
a real specific suggestion: QL 230 nanos.. QL 240, QL250 nanos.. why not QL300?
Take a look at the current Trader nano list. Most lines end at QL 180ish, some of them have a few 200+ additions..
MOST of the nanos, even most of the -top- nanos, 90% of the casting power can currently be achieved at lvl 150..
-that- is the core of the problem as I see it :)
Mediators are: make a graph of the current drains (trader professionals, would you fire up a google spread sheet please?).
one being: Y: skill/health/nano/AC drain X: nanoskills(sum or average of casting skills)
the other one being: Y: skill/health/nano/AC drain X: lvl (your experience as playing trader, get input if needed..[make a thread asking?] eg. I can cast the QL 24 on my lvl 9 trader self)
when that graph is made, take the purely skill-based nanos and extrapolate (continiue) that line.. make nanos, lots of nanos, continue till QL 300 if you would like..
"OMG traders have 10K nano and weaponskills", well enforcers still have more health..
-also- traders need to drain each 3 minutes!! (I dislike each 10 minutes), that is the disadvantage/catch.. also you can not work without the drains.. having to do a ladder of 6 nano castings before you can use your gun is a choice.. some will do it, for the fame of having a QL 400 gun, others will see that a QL300 you can use all the time is better than one you can not use, because you ran out of nano (mob drained your nano) or the mob deleted your drain (NTs have counter Grid Armor nukes, a profession needs an Epsilon Purge /Foot in the grave perk removing drain nanos from the trader).
A trader with 10K weaponskill is the counter to evade-professions/mobs and the weaponskill damage dealers (disabling them in 15 seconds).
Now mess with the traders nanopool, remove the drain or even Epsilon purge the comp nano, and the drain latter will fall, revealing a very gimp person, with a gun (s)he can not even use (100% OE).
That I think is fair and balanced.
yes I am OK with drains lasting only 15 sec in PVP, if you get QL 300 drains, truly disabling weaponskill professions..
It gives the choice of: vulnerable but high skill, or average damage, but less vulnerable to drains being disabled..
Kind Regards
-Ariensky
PS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obtena
I'm flaming? I'm being rather careful here. I don't think my discussion is anything close to it. If you feel like you are being abused by me, consider it a nudge in a direction to try to get you to think a little differently.
The easiest way to define "insult" is to ask if people feel insulted, if they are, you have insulted them.
When people say "I feel insulted/flamed/ whatever" it is a good idea to stop and listen.
if needed ask "I am sorry, I did not intend to do that, I do not understand what you are upset about, can you explain or give an example, so I know how to avoid it in the future?" rather than the "I did not insult you"-approach.
From what I know about you I think this is your issue: you are the best one at your job.
Quite frankly I think you are one of the brightest or most knowledgeable at your workplace, and throughout your life also.
You are right over 95% of the time, and those disagreeing with you disagree because they do not understand the concept you talk about.
That is psychological conditioning.. and over time it will lead to "I am right, I have proven so several times, people are just too dumb to understand me".
it happens to A LOT of smart people.. sadly.
if dumb people keep bothering, then "I am right, I will not waste my time on you again to prove yet another thing" is a good business plan.
--but you will shun the innovation that way.
Also this is not the average workplace, but an enlightened democracy.
if you think something is wrong, you state and describe teh issue, then it is up to people to reflect and reply.
If you have a good point, it will shine.
.."it is obvious that this is right and works"..
is as vague as it can get..
it is more in line of a dictator than enlightened democracy, because it is dictating a closed line of information -and- reasoning.
One of my favourite debates is Einstein vs. Tesla
On which side I am on, does not matter, but the issue stands:
can one let down his arrogance of saying "my line of thought through 20 years is wrong"?
the good approach would be that of a physics game engine developer I know:
"Sure YOUR approach IS better.. for a time-consuming resource-hugging real life physics simulation.
MINE is better for realtime simulation, by a factor of 30.
YOUR model is accurate, and should I send a space-probe to Venus I would sacrifice the processing power.
But for everyday calculations, even for bridge building, the 21st decimal variation does not matter."
he could have said "My way is better" and for 99,9999999999% of the physics calculations on Earth he will be right.
But he is open for new methods -and- other fields of work.
Send a brilliant idea to Microsoft's .net team and you will feel the arrogance..
"the best" hired in THOUSANDS, to work together.
each and every one conditions through school with "you are right", straight A+
Yet you also have the kinect team and project nathal.
With all of this I am saying: Obtena, you are intelligent but arrogant..
and the intelligent way of handling that is to reflect about it, and deal with it, rather than shun and ignore it.
Thank you for your last post, it is better in structure than a lot of the others, and shows intelligence rather than arrogance.
PPS. Watch the project nathal, it rises the hairs in my neck, because it is a look into the future.
the red queen of Resident Evil is not the future, but right around the corner..
I hope you(all of you) will listen to reason, and not make the error Alice does down the rabit's hole of Umbrella cooperation: releasing a dangerous virus killing off the human species from the face of the Earth..
Listen to reason, even if it is a re hologram or Obtena.
