ACs < hp... but not always. I think.

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Jan 5th, 2003, 23:33:47
_____________Meurgen

ACs < hp... but not always. I think.

Perhaps someone more mathmatically inclined (or less tired) could help me out here. I was testing in the arena yesterday and got some numbers:

With 4425 Proj AC, and no reflect, Sheffy critted me for 1246 dmg.

With 2322 Proj AC, and no reflect, Sheffy critted me for 1351 dmg.

With 614 Proj AC, and no reflect, Sheffy critted me for 1436 dmg.

With 494 Proj AC, and no reflect, Sheffy critted me for 1442 dmg.

Calculate those differences out, and you come out to 20 ACs = -1 dmg in pvp (which is all that counts, right? ;).

So I was thinking: With a full mk2 set, You have approximately 4500 Projectile AC (don't nitpick, this is just theoretical), and 980hp extra.

With a full set of ql220 TL6 nippon whatever armor, you should have around 6200 Projectile AC, and no extra hp. That's a 1700 AC difference, which when divided by 20 brings it down to each hit doing 85 less dmg than with mk2 on.

So take the 980hp, and divide it by 85, and it would take about 12 hits before the dmg taken off by AC equals the added hp of Mk2 armor.

This is the part where I get confused. If I were to rank the armor by value, last night I was thinking along these lines: in pvp if you take less than 12 hits before you die, then the hp from mk2 is more valuable.

If you take more than 12 hits, then the extra ACs will shave off more than 980 dmg, which means that the ACs are actually more valuable.

Does that sound right to all of you? This would mean that a full set of that high ql armor would be more valuable for those enfs, docs, advs, and soldiers out there that take more than 12 hits in the majority of fights. For those wussy nanomages like me, the 980 hp would be more valuable as I usually die from less than 12 hits.

Problem is, I don't really know how to factor in healing, which I'm sure makes a difference, and I'm not sure if ACs change when someone has high level reflect (rrfe+bracers, or TMS) running. Any suggestions on how to test this?
Jan 5th, 2003, 23:38:29
______________Insida

Yea for doctor and Adv, AC's are probly alot better I think since they can heal alot, mostly doc. But reflect are far better than AC since they take a % of the damage.
Jan 5th, 2003, 23:39:48
_____________Meurgen

Quote:

Originally posted by Insida
Yea for doctor and Adv, AC's are probly alot better I think since they can heal alot, mostly doc. But reflect are far better than AC since they take a % of the damage.

Yes, but I'm thinking along the lines of reflect and ACs combined. Would you rather have 980 extra hp while running rrfe, or 85 less dmg (from 1700 extra ACs) while running rrfe? I can't decide.
Jan 5th, 2003, 23:43:21
______________Insida

If your a doc? no, AC's are probly better with Reflect but otherwise, HP are much much better.
Jan 5th, 2003, 23:58:11
____________Hannibal

I'd actually say the extra hp is better for docs than AC. Docs usually only die when they are being pounded by several people or get hit with a nasty alpha. The extra hp allows them a few more hits to cast that CH.
Jan 6th, 2003, 01:53:25
binaural

I had 6.5 K ac's for proj/melee i think with my CAS set.. didnt seem to help alot more then onl having 4.5k AC's but who knows how the calcs actualyl work.
980 HP with rrfe is actualyl 1260 HP too.
Jan 6th, 2003, 04:51:31
Autocratt

Aimed Shot is Armor Piercing

Muergen, don't forget that everyone's favorite special ignores armor completely.
Jan 6th, 2003, 05:35:13
_____________Meurgen

Re: Aimed Shot is Armor Piercing

Quote:

Originally posted by Autocrat/Seraph
Muergen, don't forget that everyone's favorite special ignores armor completely.

You sure of that? I can see how it would be extremely difficult to tell, since AS dmg is pretty random...
Jan 6th, 2003, 05:46:42
Great_dane

Hmmm... high lvl docs use Complete Healing... so, 980 extra hp is 980 extra hp -everytime- he use CH. If a doc use 5 CH in a fight wearing a MK II, it's like the MK II gave him 5k more HP.
Jan 6th, 2003, 11:13:24
____________Infamine

Re: Re: Aimed Shot is Armor Piercing

Quote:

Originally posted by Meurgen

You sure of that? I can see how it would be extremely difficult to tell, since AS dmg is pretty random...

actually no, my AS does 40%hp like 8/10 times for some reason.
Jan 6th, 2003, 11:16:48
_____________Meurgen

Quote:

Originally posted by Taxe
Hmmm... high lvl docs use Complete Healing... so, 980 extra hp is 980 extra hp -everytime- he use CH. If a doc use 5 CH in a fight wearing a MK II, it's like the MK II gave him 5k more HP.

And on the other hand, if he were to get shot 50 times in that fight, 1700 ACs would give him... 4250 extra hp. 60 shots would get him 5100 hp.
Jan 6th, 2003, 11:17:57
_____________Meurgen

Re: Re: Re: Aimed Shot is Armor Piercing

Quote:

Originally posted by Infamine

actually no, my AS does 40%hp like 8/10 times for some reason.

Haha, cmon now, think hard about why! :)
Jan 6th, 2003, 11:38:36
Letah

I've thought about that too Meurgen, and each time I consider those mathes again and again. My choices:

Letah (doc) - I aim for HP, since I get alpahed I need all the HP I can get, means I can heal more too. See above posts.
Firerose (soldier) - Again HP since I got RRFE, TMS and Im nanomage :p
Lyphae (ma) - No issue here, using dragon. I'd use so8 for the ac and evades though, no CHs and they go AC buffs, they also last long in fights.
Fushihi (eng) - AC! I cannot heal, I got GREAT ac buffs and, a factor you people forgot; having a lower HP also means a lower cap should you be hit for a lot (which you can stimm up).
Jan 6th, 2003, 13:19:45
Sheffy

I love the title of the thread :)
Jan 6th, 2003, 13:45:30
Sethil

You are right with your calculations, 20 AC takes away 1 pt. damage.

As others already said, AC is usefull for healers, because it makes their healing more worth (less damage to heal, increases the ability to outheal the damage completely).

I, as a Soldier, have about 1000-1500 more AC than MKII-armor user, which means I get about 50-75 less damage on me per hit in PvP (PvM its still 100-150). In addition to that I have my AC buffs (+880, w/o helepolis), which reduce the damge by 44 pts.
At the end Im almost able to outheal most ppls damage only with my OMHH (avg. 250 each 3 sec = as good as highest avg. MA healing)
If I drop my armor for the MKII armor I always have to use my TMS because I couldnt outheal anyones damage...

Ok, many ppl do high damage and I have to use my TMS... in this case I would be better with the MKII armor.

Aim Shot ignores armor. It makes at least 1x highest possible base damage. 400 guns base damage + 1200 gunners attackrating = 800 minimum AS damage in PvP (reduced only by reflect shield).
Jan 7th, 2003, 13:38:58
Coldstrike

You can't assume that you take 85 hp less per hit on every hit tho. A lot of the hits will be low enough to be brought down to min damage with the 4.5k ac, making the extra ac worthless against that hit.
Jan 7th, 2003, 13:50:23
Letah

I dont know about you but ppl rarely hit me for min dmg even with 5k ac.