From Mechanita

This is a reply from Mechanita in another string. I'm bringing it to the foreground as a New string because I'd like some attention drawn to it. In digression of my earlier "Angry at Funcom?" string, this post cleared up a lot for me.

Mechanita's Words:

This looks like the perfect opportunity to introduce my own rant, so bear with me while I harp on at length. Forgive me for being in no danger of getting to the point any time soon.

Personally, I think FC have done a good job of getting what we have to us with the resources they have. No-one is ever going to be completely satisfied, and it is the nature of these things that the vocal ones (forum inhabitants) tend not to be represntational of their player base.

What they've given us is indeed a stage to act upon, and I wholeheartedly agree that there are lots of fun RP things that can be done on that stage that don't involve missions or hunting or PvP or anything of the sort. Like you, I'm sick to death of the level mill, and I'm only level 50!

So if there is so many other things to do, why do people constantly complain about a lack of content? Answer: reinforcement. The game as it is reinforces doing missions and hunting and pvp. When you do a mission you get tokens (if you're not neutral) and you get xp and cash and loot. Hunting is the same, only without the tokens. PvP gives you titles. Role-play gives you... ? The glib answer is it gives you a nice feeling of having had fun, but to be honest so do all the other things and they give you an additional reward too.

The problem is something that I reckon SWG will have as well, and almost any other MMORPG out there at the moment: levels. Skill levels, character levels, whatever-they-are levels - when you have levels, you have a reward structure that is based around the actions that the levels promote. And it is impossible to come up with a system that is non-abusable and properly rewards role-play. So the game is immediately discrimatory against such actions.

It takes someone with a very particular mindset to role-play in the face fo such game conceits. To be honest, of the MMORPGs I've seen AO does the best at promoting this. Why? Because there is a well-thought-out conflict. Because there is something worth talking about, and different people with different views. I can have a debate about the points of view of various clans, or the position of ICC in all this. I can utilise these various factions and power groups within my own stories, limited in scope they may be.

The difference between a single-player and multi-player games is the player. In the former, the game designer caters directly to them. They can offer just rewards for 'role playing'. In the latter they cannot, for one player becomes thousands - all of whom want to be the hero.

Are MMORPGs in general flawed? Possibly. We always have to remember that at heart, this is a game. And in a game most people don't want to be the streetsweeper. They want to be the hero. It's escapism. That's why we have NPCs. We want to be something other than our real life selves. Someone more important, or more powerful, or more respected. Even something different. The key is something ideal.

The fundamental problem with an emergent player-run system is that most people have to play the masses in order for some people to play the heroes. That's not what I want in a game. I get that in real life- I'm a member of the masses. I'm not a rock star, I'm not a vice-president, I'm not a secret agent. So I play something that allows me to be these things in a game.

UO got it wrong when they suggested you can play shopkeepers. Playing shopkeepers is actually no fun. It is a giggle for a bit, but the effort of getting stock, pricing, selling, buying and wotnot loses its appeal. Anyone who gets a kick out of that kind of thing soon realises that it is just as fun in real life, and considerably more profitable.

So why is this a rant? It's a rant because I have no solution. I cannot put my finger on the source of the problem. Is it Funcom? Us players? Some mix? MMORPGs in general? Society? Our parents? The internet? TV? Soda-pop? I have no idea. I have no answers, and I have no firm grasp of where the problem lies. But there is a problem, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this on so many forum threads and generally getting so worked up about it.

How many people want to tell a story? And how many want to hear a story in which they are the main character?

Don't confuse virtual reality with ideal reality. As soon as you make a game multiplayer you introduce the single biggest barrier to ego: other people.

That's why most of the player base doesn't give a crap about what guild Storm is doing when they attack Clon**** or Omni-Pol when they arrest somebody. That's somebody else having some fun. Nobody begrudges them having their fun and if FunCom provided any context for their roleplaying it even enriches the game. But, in the long run 99% of the playerbase not involved in those player-generated sidelines care remotely what happened.

What many of us want (roleplaying needs aside) is to have the world evolve and feel 'alive'. The Amnesty went in and the world changed for all players. The world was alive. Likewise for when the Amnesty was rescinded.

When the apartment complex was bombed, we all could go and see the atrocity. It was there for all to see and converse with our friends about.

I actually had conversations both in-guild and out regarding the discussions going on between Ross and Radiman. We wondered how their communications were going to affect our day-to-day activities and how changes in game mechanics stemming from the Storyline would affect our play sessions as the Story moved through its paces.

Then it stopped.

We started getting pissed.

Nothing to read about. Nothing to talk about. Nothing changing in-game. No new nothing to do. No new nothing to see. Just Nerfs, 'balancing', new items, Whom'pas. Whatever.

Where'd the Story go? Oh yeah: 'on a break'. Phfft!

Roleplaying continued and was good and bad as far as quality and adherance to the Backstory. This of course had little to do with the now apparantly defunct Storyline. But it satiated the needs of the 5% of the playerbase who were Roleplayers. The rest of us were left with a stagnant world. Nothing happened.

So the Roleplayers told us to make up our own story. OK, here's the deal with that:

The original inhabitants of Rubi'Ka kicked humankind's progenitors out from Rubi'Ka to Earth. Rubi'Ka was the birthplace of mankind. The Garden of Eden. Notum makes Resurrection and even Immortality possible. Remember Adam and Eve's punishment for eating the Forbidden Fruit? Right, they lost their chance for life eternal.

So Omni-Tek stumbles on Rubi'Ka and knows alot about this. Not that our characters, the humble and simple inhabitants playing out our simple political squabbles in the terraformed region of Rubi'ka have even a clue. But, Omni-Tek is evil. Very evil. They wish to usurp control of the Notum and the forces that harness it. They want immortality and the freedom to wield the most powerful of forces in the Galaxy for their own purposes.

This is the premise for the Shadowlands. Once again two clearly defined sides. The evil bastards and anybody willing to stop them.

Read the novel. There's a shining knight who will be the focal point for the 'resistance'. We can follow him or align ourselves with the forces of darkness and hope to steal a bit of power by association. It's our choice.

Now, you tell me. How does some roleplayer advance that storyline. How does he have the power to move and shake the very fabric of time/space/good/evil/reality? How can FunCom empower a few individual players to branch such a Story? They can't.

So we got a decent, if somewhat plagerized and kinda tired, Storyline. Why are we all complaining?

Because nothing is happening in the world. The only thing we are treated to is bullcrap snippets on the 'Story' site about guild X declaring hostilities with clan Y or the announcement of some Leet Parade through the cities. Do you think most of us care about that? No.

We want the Story we were promised.

Now to the timing of the Shadowlands. Can we all agree that Armageddon or Apocalypse is sorta the end of the line as far as Storylines are concerned? Obviously Ragnar had this all planned out from the start. Curious why FunCom is spilling all the beans this December. Can you say 'desperation'.

Perhaps if Ross and Radiman continued to talk and something changed in game owing to the conclusion of discussions. Perhaps if Joshua did something other than Shadow Eleena for every appearance in the episodes. Perhaps if the EcoWarriors set up NPC defense strike teams to protect popular hunting grounds. Perhaps if players could join Omni-Pol, or the Sentinals and were led on missions issued via the terms every now and then by GM's. Perhaps if an Earthquake struck Newland Desert and wiped out the newbs at the Oasis and settled more than a few 'duels' at MMD quicker than expected. Perhaps if a proper Arena were built with a translucent dome over is that had a buff-stripping teleporter to get into, a 'real' Arena League could start.

Perhaps if _anything_ ever happened besides Nerfs, new-uber items getting put on the god damned Dragon or boss mobs or NPC on million hour spawns, and .... Nerfs, we'd go about our business and enjoy the game.

My friends used to ask me what was going on in the virtual world of Rubi'Ka. They got a chuckle when I told them about the Pumpkin Heads. They were interested when I told them the leaders of the two sides were discussing the fate of the planet. They were intrigued and a bit jealous when I told them that the hints given to us regarding 'Dust to dust' were manifesting themselves in the game. They kept 'tuning in next week' to find out what was going on in the game I played.

Then it all stopped.

Can you blame the 60 to 90 percent of us who don't engage in heavy roleplaying but expect our world to 'breathe' for being completely pissed off and feeling 'cheated'?

Go to the 'Story' site and see how many Omni-departments and Clans have been profiled. What is wrong with FunCom. They can't start anything and finish it. Somebody tell me if the Manteze war with the Clans is still going on or not. We all know it started. That's all we know. We see Corky up outside Beer 'n Booze. (Seeing Mack as the bartender in there gave me goosebumps the first time I entered). What happened to Corky's owner. We know she's an inhabitant of the planet. So is she somewhere with her head in the sand like FunCom?

Some people may see a nice stage for them to work their acting craft upon. Most of us see a stage full of extras and backdrop scenery where absolutely, 100%, nothing is happening.

And we were sold on the notion that something would happen and paid FunCom for something to happen.

Kurt Cobain had a lyric that represents the majority of our feelings. About 30 people at both extremes don't understand why that's our mantra.

First off - thanks Tarryk! Didn't expect this to get made higher profile - it does lose something of it's appeal outside of its context, but I guess it still reads okay.

As for a kind-of (but not really) retort:

I'm going to restate what I said before about AO being a bigger promoter of RP than most other MMORPGs on the grounds that the world has the complexity required to promote that.

However, what we have now is (and I have to take other people's word for this since I only started playing in April) less than what we had before. The world is still interesting and has a complex setting, but it no longer has the events that make it 'special' and many feel the loss and are annoyed.

The question is: what makes an event 'world shaking'? What Clan X or Omni-Tek division Y are up to means little if nothing to players who are not a member. Why is that? Are these people not 'valid' parts of the world? The answer is something I've already stated: people who are not members are not the 'heroes' of this play, and as such do not register for many players.

However, is there really anything that makes the 'GM' characters any more or less special? To be fair, if the game was about what Joshua and Eleena were up to, and they were focal to the story, then I'd lose interest real soon. I lost interest in what Al'Kabor and his cohorts were up to in EverQuest as soon as I found out they existed - I really don't care because they have nothing to do with me. They're someone else's 'party'.

For me, the things that make this game worthwhile are the people that I do interact with to varying degrees. Talking to DrTiny or Nyadach of IR feels like 'involvement' because it is very much talking to representatives of a lot of neuts. Talking to Windguaerd of Mercury Dragons is very much talking to a prominent Clan member. In both cases these people are prominent because of what they and those they represent have done.

However that is just me. I'm a RP junkie and will latch on to anyone's story where I can. For most people they probably couldn't give a toss. Most people probably don't listen to Tarryk or any of the Gridstream folks, and don't really care.

So yes, you're right. Funcom have retracted on their 'story events' for now. But the real question is what could they do that would a) regalvanise the story, b) not result in a huge server crash because important NPC X shows up at some location and c) makes sure that people still feel they're the 'central role' of their own story?

Again, no answers. And I really don't envy the FC events guys 'n' gals the job of coming up with that and meeting the expectations of the players. Sure, that's what we pay them for. But that doesn't make them god - it just makes them responsible.

I heard one or two rumours of a few events that would spark a world-sweeping change. But nothing was forthcoming. Why? I don't entirely know. All I do know is that all of this was sparked off around the time Lev became a violent sociopath. I'm sure some of you know what I'm referring to, but I'm keeping my trap shut just in case it may still happen.

You'd think I had a multiple personality disorder with this one...

Erm, first off Tarryk - I forgive you and all but the context here is slightly different than intended. The above post is about role-playing with the story content we have, rather than about the lack of story in and of itself.

So to address the 'big story' more directly:

For me, I do not believe we have a lack of story. We have a lack of story progress.

To answer my question at the bottom of the first post, I honestly believe most people want to hear a story in which they're a central character more than they want to tell a story. Storytelling is something that only a few people do, and only a few people get a kick out of. I guess it's the difference between the player-mentality and DM-mentality. I'm a DM-mentality person, but I know enough player-mentality people to be sure of my position.

So when you have so many people who want to be 'players' (conveniently called players in this context) you need to have a DM telling the story.

And at this point it comes down to how do you tell the story? From previous posts the answer is with quite a lot of trepidation and some very careful stepping to avoid treading on toes. Some very careful planning and more than a bit of careful observation of things going on.

To drag in topics from all over, the whole Yxxil/Garrisen/Mogdai thing is a nice example. This didn't fly because it offended some people. Lawsuit-level offended. So it was squelched. This is an example of not treading carefully enough. Points for trying, though.

At the end of the day, we as players want to see a world where things happen. By providing some 'news' we springboard a lot more opportunities. What we have is exactly as Bionitrous stated - a stage with a lot of scenery and backdrops and no focal action.

The problem isn't lack of content - there is oodles of that. The problem is very simply a change in the level of involvement by FC. For those of us relatively new (April, as stated) AO is one of the most vibrant places with regard to 'meaning' behind what is happening between various groups. However, for those of us who have not seen the level of involvement from FC in the earlier days we don't necessarily miss it. So are FC being bad by 'neglecting' the story? I'm not so sure - this may well be a case of vocal minority.

I honestly reckon that we can get away with quite a bit. Like forums themselves, I believe FC have actually done quite good - they've run events that have galvanised the setting and made things start to happen. Enough so that we can pick up the torch and keep going. We don't have 'official' say in our story, but do we need it? What is official? Official is having your name in lights. However, I'd say that Lev Rivers, Tarryk and even Methlon have their name in lights. Not because of anything official, but because they've done things that are noticeable. We are capable of advancing the story ourselves - just not to a world-shattering level.

In the meantime I'm more than happy to pick up the torch for me and my friends and run my own clan vs. omni-tek with neutral involvement events for those I play with. It isn't earth-shattering and isn't in any danger of truly changing the face of the planet, but it is fun.

And fun is the heart of this all. If you're having fun, play. If you're not, don't. Tarryk said it wonderfully to Methlon: no-one is holding a gun and forcing you to play.

So, to summarise:

FC - some more story progress would be nice. Something that indicates that things are still moving. Rumours, some drastic changes here and there, general conjecture. Have someone successfully *destroy* the mass drivers in Clon**** and watch OT go spastic. Or have OT actually pull out of one of their OPs in Clan territory and leave a bunch of dangerous mutants behind. Or even have another dust brigade strike.
These kinds of things will keep things moving.

Players- remember that you can have fun and tell stories without FC's direct involvement. Open your eyes and look at what people are already doing. Sure, what Clan Storm are up to probably isn't interesting. But if you get involved, you'd be surprised what can happen. And for those that do RP, remember that the guys standing watching probably would love to get involved as well. This is something Garrisen (bless his socks) *was* good at - letting others play too.

Everyone- have fun. That's why you're here, remember?

/me applaudes

OK I've read as many posts as I can and skimmed others. Better put my thoughts down :)

Funcom was wrong not to inform us of what was happening with the 'story progress' plain and simple. Thats not flaming FC thats just a fact...they made a mistake. It would be nice to know even sketchy details of when the story will make some headway again.

"What makes an event 'world shaking'? " I don't know and in all honesty I don't need to know. What we need are constant events, they could be huge, tiny, simple, complex, short, long...it wouldn't matter it would breathe more life into the world as Bio wanted. Rubi Ka as it stands is repetitive, the level treadmill we all talk about.....even some events are better than none.....and they would break up the monotony we endure until the story restarts.

I like AO. Yes I believe it's the best out there...at the moment. I see people dragging down SWG.....try looking at the game mechanics their trying to implement.....forget the 70's story for a moment...look at what tools their giving the player to suspend their belief and maximise their choices as players. Don't flame something you haven't even tried....doing so simply lessens your valid points about AO. I suppose thats just my opinion and totally off the subject....I have a terrible habit of doing that. :D

I believe most of the negative comments about AO are generated by frustration from paying for something that hasn't been delivered yet. Even small quirks and bugs get near unbearable when your annoyed or angry.

To summarise what I would like to see from Funcom :-

1) More information about their plans. This has already started upto a point with the recent posts in the community corner. It doesn't have to be a total disclosure....just something simple.

2) Events. Many and varied. They don't even have to relate to the story....just bring more 'life' to Rubi Ka.

Similar in principle to what Mechanita wants...but a little different. Hell I'd settle for the info right know :D

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Roleplay and the Story.


The roleplaying and the story are linked, the story provided in many cases the reason to role play. Sure you can create a roleplaying group, and carry on in your own fashion to create your own story.

But this is true in any game, people roleplay in EQ, DOAC and AC, where AO was suppose to be different is we where expecting to be part of this story.

The story was there to re-enforce the roleplaying give people a reason for their actions. For a long while it was working well.

Some people may of hated them but some interesting Roleplaying on a massive scale was taken up by many of the big guilds and interesting single players.

The weekly if not daily changes to the story caused people to be discussing the issues at lenghts. The roleplaying events where held all the time, meeting between the clans and omni's, pacts between guilds, weekend battles. Parties to mark the start or end of events etc.


These where not without their problems but it gave people a real reason to play, the world was a new exciting place, you would learn new things about the world by just chatting.

I used to rush home from work on patch day just to see what had changed, I would scan the boards here for comments on a hourly base.

Its this we have lost, sure you can roleplay with a few people maybe a whole guild. But it feels like we are in a souless world. Who wants to here about what Div9 and storm are doing unless your in their guild.

Who cares about the so called war between clans and omni when the people we look to in this world dont seem to care.


In my view it would have taken little effort to keep the story rolling, even if they did it just via the website that would have been something.

Yes you can still RP here, but then again you can roleplay in most games, the story was pulling a lot of people in from other games its hard to see AO suriving by givin up its most unique feature.

Kirrana

AO is a more RP-friendly environment for more than just it's 'dynamic story'

The setting itself lends a lot of credence to roleplay simply because it of itself provides talking points.

There is a conflict. There are people on both sides. These people do things. There are two ideologies at work, and they cannot co-exist. So through conflict we get role-play.

DAoC has this as well, but DAoC falls over because there is no real reason for conflict. There are three sides but no hard reason for those sides to be fighting. AO is unique because it provides two sides who have a valid reason for conflict. In many ways it is a rather fascinating social experiment (and, incidentally, has taught me a lot about some rather unpleasant aspects of sociology and the human psyche).

So while the 'FC events' are not as forthcoming as they could be or were (please note I'm not disagreeing on that aspect), I must disagree with the comment that RP is just as easy in DAoC, AC or EQ. The barrier to RP in AO is less precisely because there is something to RP *about*.