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Thread: Item Shop Discussion Forum

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Brampfine View Post
    Item Shop Discussion is ur highest priority ?

    we have problems to start / finish successful different raids by reason of low population
    i miss some content what i pay for with my 17,19€ monthly.

    i cant pay for one year, cause dont have this stack of money,
    but i can quit AO for the next 6 month to save some money to pay a 12 month special offer.
    if u like that ok.

    see u soon
    Sounds like a plan. Cya, you wont be missed.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Brampfine View Post
    Item Shop Discussion is ur highest priority ?

    we have problems to start / finish successful different raids by reason of low population
    i miss some content what i pay for with my 17,19€ monthly.

    i cant pay for one year, cause dont have this stack of money,
    but i can quit AO for the next 6 month to save some money to pay a 12 month special offer.
    if u like that ok.

    see u soon
    What is the point of your post? Where did it say anything about priorities? Is it not possible to work on multiple things at the same time?
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
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    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  3. #23
    Sorry to point out the blindingly obvious but the Item Store allows a froob like me who's a froob due to RK4 issues to pay a bit for non game breaking stuff. My froob account has a nano for a flying vehicle any of my characters can use once they have the right level of Vehicle Air. Beats the snot out of walking everywhere. So long as you folks don't start selling game breaking gear the shop's fine by me. And as I say, I'm a Froob Neutral Trade Skilling PvM Engineer - you don't get much lower on the food chain than me. In fact I barely out rank the leets in they keep in the lab...
    Last edited by Cogline; Jan 24th, 2012 at 21:49:07. Reason: Predictive text on a phone seems like a good idea until you use it.
    I'm a Froob Neutral Trade Skilling Nanomage Engineer- by definition I hide round corners and let the bot do the fighting.

  4. #24
    Please keep any powerful gear away from it. Especially this token selling ppl are making credz with is totally ./fail.

    I think that AO lost a lot of his class with this shop.
    Last edited by Anarrina; Jan 24th, 2012 at 22:53:59.
    meep

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesa View Post
    Please keep any powerful gear away from it. Especially this token selling ppl are making credz with is totally ./fail.

    I think that AO lost a lot of his class with this shop.
    Well, have you ever thought, that grinding tokens is just a grind, i bet you wont have any fun doing missions for tokens.

    Even though dailies do give you a big boost in tokens. But a guy who has p-lvled his way to tl5 with a couple days of marginal. Would much likely prefer buying 1k tokens for about 450m (Which he probably can afford) in order to get the achievement you reached after about a month of dailies.

    It benefits both to the player and to the economy of Funcom. I think tokens are the one item/items that is being most purchased in the itemshop as well.
    It's like removing your weapon on your character, taking away the best of the situation.

    Problems? I think not.
    Last edited by Anarrina; Jan 24th, 2012 at 22:54:18.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesa View Post
    Please keep any powerful gear away from it. Especially this token selling SH** ppl are making credz with is totally ./fail.

    I think that AO lost a lot of his class with this shop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Would much likely prefer buying 1k tokens for about 450m (Which he probably can afford) in order to get the achievement you reached after about a month of dailies.
    Selling tokens isn't even worth the cash. 1k tokens runs about 180mil, when you think about the dollar value in it, that's like 30$ for 1k tokens which is 180mil in game. Clearly Mesa you have not thought this out much as it is not a cost effective way to earn credits. If they dropped the cost in the item shop to about 10$ per 1k tokens it would be worth it, but then again if they did that the value of them ingame will also drop and instead of 180mil it might be around 100mil or less.

  7. #27
    I really dont think ppl should be able to trade RL money vs IG credz.
    And I dont think ppl should get pvp rewards from spending RL money.
    Thats just my opinion..
    If you wanna have the phatz than play the game. If you think the way you earn phatz is crap, than tell FC to make a better job.

    @Carlonel: well I have stopped playing AO, tho a few months ago packages were sold all day long. If its an expensive way to earn IG credz or not, has nothing to do with my statement.
    meep

  8. #28
    AO taking the best revenue source found in games these days ? Boohoo.

    I think they have it right so far, sell a few accelerators, some convenience and cosmetics.

    Cosmetics are great, they doesn't cause any problem and makes a lot of money. As for convenience, it's a dangerous way as there is a thin line between saving time and paying for flawed design. Imo a lot of complain we have is what might happen and little of what actually happen.

    Btw, we need dyes for OFAB armors.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
    N E U T R A L I Z E R S

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesa View Post
    I really dont think ppl should be able to trade RL money vs IG credz.
    And I dont think ppl should get pvp rewards from spending RL money.
    Thats just my opinion..
    If you wanna have the phatz than play the game. If you think the way you earn phatz is crap, than tell FC to make a better job.

    @Carlonel: well I have stopped playing AO, tho a few months ago packages were sold all day long. If its an expensive way to earn IG credz or not, has nothing to do with my statement.
    Has everything to do with the statement, if people want to waste an obscene amount of money on 180mil then let them, as it brings in revenue for funcom to continue functioning. If you don't play then why are you on here crying about being able to buy items from the shop? I think they should add more stuff like real AI armor and other items, some of us work and have very little time to spend grinding away to get armor, hell if i wanted a CSS or CC part i would have to spend every day from the time i get out of work till i go to sleep farming and probably take more than a week to get it. If we were able to use the time we spend at work making money (while you sit at home all day) to further advance our characters that would make the game a lot more enjoyable.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    Selling tokens isn't even worth the cash. 1k tokens runs about 180mil, when you think about the dollar value in it, that's like 30$ for 1k tokens which is 180mil in game.
    1K packs sell quickly for 400-450M on RK2, so $1=13-15M creds.
    Ghosts of Rimor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    i might be a troll

  11. #31
    lol..
    no really it hasnt.
    meep

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorathon View Post
    1K packs sell quickly for 400-450M on RK2, so $1=13-15M creds.
    RK1 1k tokens is about 180 or 190mil or 85mil for 500 tokens. If it was 400-450m on rk1 id be selling tokens right now.

  13. #33

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Haxi View Post
    Consider lowering the prices across the board. Everything in the shop is overpriced IMO.
    We've actually had preliminary discussions last week about lowering prices in the general sense. This would be on a case-by-case evaluation rather than across the board. To be perfectly honest, several people in the development team have expressed the instinct that prices in general seem a tad high for certain things. There are of course reams of shop data which we have, and I prefer us to have a scientific approach by crunching the numbers. I don't know when we'll prioritize revisiting existing items and doing any sort of cost adjustment, but for new items you should start seeing prices that are somewhat data-driven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merit View Post
    Please, please be mindful of the 'pay for power' issue... know it'd sell, but can ruin a game fast... :/
    It's definitely something we need to be mindful of. Here are my thoughts on the subject. Off the bat, think there are a couple of clear-cut high level categories for an MMO item shop.

    • Vanity
    • Time
    • Skill
    • Features


    Vanity is the social stuff that is pretty self explanatory. It's social gear, vehicles in AO (mounts in other games), titles, that sort of thing. It's primary value is to add another layer of uniqueness to a game genre that tends to have finite ways to customize one's character.

    Time is a lot of things - generally thought of as convenience. What you are paying for is short-cuts either on the game map, or within the RPG system (XP boosts are a classic example). But imagine a situation where a game sells a gear solution for players who are levelling in a content-sparse or reward-sparse section of the levelling curve. This is an item with stats, but because it's an item the character outgrows it's not the same as selling power. What you are really selling is Time - in this case, the Time it would normally take to worry about mid-game upgrades for the section targeted by the item. And there are many other common examples out there.

    Skill is what I see as the traditional pay-for-power, which is not something I'm interested in pursuing. I call it Skill because in an MMO, the endgame raid/content/whatever (should) be non-trivial. Buying the reward would be tantamount to players short-cutting the Skill element. Note that selling gear which is the equivalent of formerly endgame content rewards, that the current end-game players have had on farm status for years could arguably be Time depending on the specifics of the situation. For example, if it's an early hoop that players need to go through to get to the actual endgame via itemization and the RPG system. But I agree, this is an area where we as developers need to be mindful. So again, I'm not interested in selling Skill given my definition, and you won't see the best items in the game in the shop.

    Features is what is typically sold to free players in a free/sub hybrid model. So this would include access pass to subscriber content, or maybe account upgrades that subscribers might normally get. Note that barring some real corner case that I can't think of off the top of my head, subscribers should get access to the game features - this is why they are paying a sub, after all. But free players might want some of it on an a la carte basis. In a game with a free and paid model, subscriber value is an important thing and I'm a big believer in this. So as we are looking at ways to improve the game making sure the subscribers have value in their subs is an ongoing consideration.


    But there is a larger issue at play here - why are we doing this?

    The fact is that AO is a game, due to the specifics of the project, which allows for a high degree of reinvestment back into the game itself. This manifests in the resources required to ramp up content and feature production. It should be self-evident that Fia and the development team are fundamentally committed to improving and growing the game and doing great things, and that goes for me as well. So dollars spent in the shop ultimately come back to the game itself, and affords us as developers the opportunity to be ambitious in what we deliver in ways that under normal circumstances wouldn't be viable.

    So, if we know this or that item would be a big seller in the item shop, there is equation with idealogical objections on one side vs. what the projected revenue would allow us to do in the production schedule on the other. Everyone of course has various ideological positions on lots of different areas of game design - you put 100 people in a room, you get 101 opinions on any given subject. And this also goes for the item shop, if not more so because it's such a visible and relevant issue within the industry. Because ultimately we are improving the game for the players - ie, you guys - I think item shop related community interaction is important when we start evaluating what goes into the item shop and then scrapping ideas that we decide aren't right for AO. I think the important factor is doing what's best for the game, and what's best for the growth of the game long-term. The item shop has to be a part of this.
    Last edited by Ilaliya; Jan 25th, 2012 at 01:00:54.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    RK1 1k tokens is about 180 or 190mil or 85mil for 500 tokens. If it was 400-450m on rk1 id be selling tokens right now.
    I sold a 1K pack about a week ago, and had 2 offers within 60s of posting the WTS, and opened trade with the guy within another 90s. Then I started kicking myself because other folks were moving them at 450M.

    Come on over, the water's fine.
    Last edited by Gorathon; Jan 25th, 2012 at 01:36:16. Reason: spelling, there is a 'd' in 'trade'
    Ghosts of Rimor
    Gorastopr 220 MA Doctor :: No pew pew. Thwack thwack.
    Goratinkr TL5 OT Hurler Factotum Engineer :: Bringin' the thunder since 2008.
    Scrubup 100 Bow Doctor :: Will she ever get out of perk reset? Stay tuned!
    Ghosts of Atlantean
    Unda TL7 MA Engineer :: Crying for more crit.
    Measles LVL1 Pistol Doctor :: It takes 2 stims to self the Expertises.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    i might be a troll

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    Time is a lot of things - generally thought of as convenience. What you are paying for is short-cuts either on the game map, or within the RPG system (XP boosts are a classic example). But imagine a situation where a game sells a gear solution for players who are levelling in a content-sparse or reward-sparse section of the levelling curve. This is an item with stats, but because it's an item the character outgrows it's not the same as selling power. What you are really selling is Time - in this case, the Time it would normally take to worry about mid-game upgrades for the section targeted by the item. And there are many other common examples out there.
    This is something acceptable to me. But only if these items in "content-sparse or reward-sparse section[s]" are not top-notch. I mean, yeah something like pre-built leveling carbonum armor (but a small bit weaker) is absolutely okay. It's a good armor that can be used in low- and mid-levels, but if you've got the (ingame-)money, or the patience to farm or the good filled bank toons you clearly can have something way better. And I can really understand this from an economic point of view. But... with the rebalancing, start-up experience overhaul and graphics update coming and advertising (hopefully!), I'd rather see something done to these sections. I mean, there are a lot of things out there with a low droprate and very rare mobs with these specific items on the loot-table (for example Predator Armor, even if it has a somewhat decent droprate, but imagine what happens when, let's say, a thousand new players register and most of them come to these levels, where the armor is nice, at nearly the same time... Tsunami of whine... even worse: Jobe Explorer Personal Pistol and Jobe Portal Guard Personal Pistol...). Also, there are gaps in weapon choice in low- and mid-level. Some Professions are fine with choices, being it subscribers or froobs (for example Fixers: Perennium Beamers and Mortiig Beamers in SL, AI weapons, Gamma Ejectors and Blackbirds available to Froobs), some are kinda screwed and don't have much of a choice or weapons that aren't too viable or have to stick with one and the same weapon (not even in different QLs!) for a long long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    Skill is what I see as the traditional pay-for-power, which is not something I'm interested in pursuing. I call it Skill because in an MMO, the endgame raid/content/whatever (should) be non-trivial. Buying the reward would be tantamount to players short-cutting the Skill element. Note that selling gear which is the equivalent of formerly endgame content rewards, that the current end-game players have had on farm status for years could arguably be Time depending on the specifics of the situation. For example, if it's an early hoop that players need to go through to get to the actual endgame via itemization and the RPG system. But I agree, this is an area where we as developers need to be mindful. So again, I'm not interested in selling Skill given my definition, and you won't see the best items in the game in the shop.
    So... this is something... naaah. I'd rather see some old items made easier to get than selling them in item store. What I think would be okay is something like... Let's say QL225 and QL250 implants sold in item store. And on top of it, you could configure them in item store, too. Something similar to how you configure implants on auno.org or like it was/is (yes, I still use this program, even if it's not up-to-date or 100% accurate) in NanoNanny. Let's say, you need QL250 Comp. Lit. Implants. You go to the item store, go to the implant section where you see all Implants with shiny, bright and faded slots. There you can click checkboxes for QL225 or 250 (or even a slider for QLs between 200 and 250) and which implants you want, choose the clusters, click buy and there you go. Not really an endgame item (maybe for Froobs though, but hey... Froobs spending money!), nothing you can't reach without a little bit of effort ingame, so only a bit of time saved and I think it's something many players, being it subscribers or froobs, would buy when they need high QL implants fast as buffing items or something (if they go for a reasonable price). Oh, and please... put ql200 implants into the implant shop (the ones in cities where you pay with ingame money -> credits 11) finally!

    Just my 2 cents wall of text

    Regards,
    Regarok

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    So dollars spent in the shop ultimately come back to the game itself, and affords us as developers the opportunity to be ambitious in what we deliver in ways that under normal circumstances wouldn't be viable.
    Slippery slope; Paid items to pay for new content > new content needs new items > ad nauseam...

    Am pro item shop, I want more random items, am pro AO, am adverse to issue skirting/self justification on the doing of evil. (not saying you're planning evil, but sometimes it happens on 'accident', road to hell paved with best intentions and all that jazz.)
    Last edited by Merit; Jan 25th, 2012 at 03:21:06.
    I make it look easy, 'cause it is to me.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    {blah blah stuff to cover up the important stuff}

    Time is a lot of things - generally thought of as convenience. What you are paying for is short-cuts either on the game map, or within the RPG system (XP boosts are a classic example). But imagine a situation where a game sells a gear solution for players who are levelling in a content-sparse or reward-sparse section of the levelling curve. This is an item with stats, but because it's an item the character outgrows it's not the same as selling power. What you are really selling is Time - in this case, the Time it would normally take to worry about mid-game upgrades for the section targeted by the item. And there are many other common examples out there.

    {more blah blah, sandwich method anyone?}
    No. Simply, no.

    For me you guys have already gotten very close to the proverbial line with VP/token packs which can be sold for ingame credits.. not to mention the Dust Brigade helm which gives a huge advantage for low-level twinking.

    The minute I see stuff like implant sets (hey, you save time by not having to run across stores!), Ofab sets (you don't have to do battlestation lol I mean tower daily anymore, more time saved!), typed clumps (those LE missions are a huge timesink!), that's the minute I will give away all my stuff, delete my characters and leave AO altogether. And trust me I won't try TSW either if this hypothetical case were to become reality.

    While mer personally, one player, might not make much of a difference to you remember that it's always a few who complain/protest. Cherish those players, the few who complain do so because they cared in the first place. The much much much larger majority that's silent doesn't give a damn and will just cancel their accounts. Then again, we all know AO has a huge population so who cares.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    No. Simply, no.

    For me you guys have already gotten very close to the proverbial line with VP/token packs which can be sold for ingame credits.. not to mention the Dust Brigade helm which gives a huge advantage for low-level twinking.

    The minute I see stuff like implant sets (hey, you save time by not having to run across stores!), Ofab sets (you don't have to do battlestation lol I mean tower daily anymore, more time saved!), typed clumps (those LE missions are a huge timesink!), that's the minute I will give away all my stuff, delete my characters and leave AO altogether. And trust me I won't try TSW either if this hypothetical case were to become reality.

    While mer personally, one player, might not make much of a difference to you remember that it's always a few who complain/protest. Cherish those players, the few who complain do so because they cared in the first place. The much much much larger majority that's silent doesn't give a damn and will just cancel their accounts. Then again, we all know AO has a huge population so who cares.

    qft

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    No. Simply, no.

    For me you guys have already gotten very close to the proverbial line with VP/token packs which can be sold for ingame credits.. not to mention the Dust Brigade helm which gives a huge advantage for low-level twinking.

    The minute I see stuff like implant sets (hey, you save time by not having to run across stores!), Ofab sets (you don't have to do battlestation lol I mean tower daily anymore, more time saved!), typed clumps (those LE missions are a huge timesink!), that's the minute I will give away all my stuff, delete my characters and leave AO altogether. And trust me I won't try TSW either if this hypothetical case were to become reality.

    While mer personally, one player, might not make much of a difference to you remember that it's always a few who complain/protest. Cherish those players, the few who complain do so because they cared in the first place. The much much much larger majority that's silent doesn't give a damn and will just cancel their accounts. Then again, we all know AO has a huge population so who cares.
    This.

    Other people can deny this all they want, but as much as we may 'troll' the forums, we are not stupid by any stretch of the imagination. AO brings a certain type of player to the table because of the large number crunching and dedication needed to create good chars thanks to the skillsets the game offers.

    This type of player is NOT stupid.

    While we may understand the want for an item-shop due to the games declining interest, I can't help but wonder WHY it's needed when AO has easily the highest subscription cost of any MMO on the market today. It's £17.91 for me at the moment. In contrast, World of Warcraft is £9, that's HALF THE COST, which makes Means' "We offer a deal for more gametime" quote completely irrelevant, as I can play a game with a higher playerbase, newer content, substantially larger dev team and alot more interest from its founding company for THE SAME PRICE.

    Why do I still play AO then you might say? Well, WoW is shallow, you right click you gear on, job done, no challenge at all.

    But don't sit there thinking that if you start adding gear with actual stats at ANY LEVEL RANGE to the item shop we will sit here and take it, because I assure you, you'll find the game dead within a month if you do, simply because, you will undermine one of the largest parts of game itself, twinking.

    The addition of the 'Permanent GMS/Bank Anywhere' cans were a big enough outrage considering they stripped 2 professions of the very needed variety they had. Don't do it again.

    EDIT: Actually thinking about it, maybe we are stupid, you know, expecting the Engine and Rebalance to ever come to fruition any time in the coming millennium.
    Last edited by Raggy; Jan 25th, 2012 at 08:39:01. Reason: Hmph.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    No. Simply, no.

    For me you guys have already gotten very close to the proverbial line with VP/token packs which can be sold for ingame credits.. not to mention the Dust Brigade helm which gives a huge advantage for low-level twinking.

    The minute I see stuff like implant sets (hey, you save time by not having to run across stores!), Ofab sets (you don't have to do battlestation lol I mean tower daily anymore, more time saved!), typed clumps (those LE missions are a huge timesink!), that's the minute I will give away all my stuff, delete my characters and leave AO altogether. And trust me I won't try TSW either if this hypothetical case were to become reality.

    While mer personally, one player, might not make much of a difference to you remember that it's always a few who complain/protest. Cherish those players, the few who complain do so because they cared in the first place. The much much much larger majority that's silent doesn't give a damn and will just cancel their accounts. Then again, we all know AO has a huge population so who cares.
    This

    "Selling time" is pretty close to selling power.

    As every "power items" can get acquiered with "Time"

    "Time" is what keeps players in game, with a certain love/hate relation.
    // Break time //

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