Friday with Means - January 9th, 2009

[Flyingengi]

I vote for something related to #2. If #1 was used, omni could still insta kill everyone...Omni NM SB has an 8k(4k pvp) AOE attack that I'm pretty sure if used in combo with the OS would still bring about the same result. Heck. let's just get like 10 nanomages to run around together and have our own SB that isn't avoidable ^^

[Hacre]

I remember people not liking the sense of "realism" when NTs could one shot everybody when triples first came out.

Why is OS so different?

[Brampfine]

Shadowbreed skill is locked, able in 05:00:00
the stun SB is only usable from Solitus breeds.

what about the knockback with the tower pf´s near water ? have the owner her CT then on the water border ?
and after OS someone can swimm back or get killed in the water by fisching defence ppl......how funny.

the OS commes to slow down and need a area snare from the beginning to balance it between the melee and ranged proffs
NOW: --> Initiate OS : Bzzzzzzzzzzz(Omni run´s away / Clan drink´s stunned a coffee)zzzzzzzzzz BAM.....DMG
NEW: --> Initiate OS : B"SNARE"zzzz(cant run ?? o_O ..#%&§ argh help)zzzzzzzzz BAM.....DMG..Kockback..DMG

ok then is this subject donne and we can go to the other significant problems......(distract with OS....tzz)


Newcommer need more help, cred, beginner stuff in a faster time
It sucks for a newcommer to rollback 4 or 5 times before.....
Build a NPC on RK for newcommer with a questline as i write into my other thread

About the comming pvp nano´s ....again nothing for soldier....ok enough about it

i think i lost my hopes that the potential from this game will use in future.

[Hacre]

About the comming pvp nano´s ....again nothing for soldier....ok enough about it

Cos soldiers are so nerfest and need so much help and improvement

"again nothing for soldier" lolmfao.

I couldn't make sense of the rest of your post.

[Brampfine]

jeah i have a imba 220 Soldier on Rk3

with some imba stuff from sheol quest
yes 21 points more off with Full Automatic Targeting
wow 30 points more off with Improved Automatic Targeting

No ammo was found for Dreadloch Modified Shark!
No ammo was found for Dreadloch Modified Shark!
No ammo was found for Dreadloch Modified Shark!

jeah i am imba

and i can equip a complete crap ql300 symb set in full shock, where some imps are better
and
and

ok u say it
i am imba

[IHaveHugeNick]

If you are really going to argue that having a giant spaceship located on orbit to shoot the surface with knockback lasers makes sense , you are , frankly, retarded, and this is all i have to say about it.

I already said its better to remove the mechanic completely instead of doing the silly castration like that, so hide your infinite pvp knowledge gathered from dying to orbital strikes back to the pants.

There are many kinds of sillyness. People with swords fighting with people with machine guns can be explained with all kinds of nanotechnology. Bombs from year 20000-something making people fly in the air like Happy Hippos, can not.

There is no sense at all in introducing a powerful mechanic like that, then spending 2 years doing all kinds lockdowns to tune it down ( various changes to planting, jamming towers, fixers nanos, SB changes), only to change it in the end to something meaningless.

Orbital strike should kill or it shouldnt be in a game, its as simple as that. I know some people will prefer it if makes entire raidforce do /YMCA and shout slogans showing love for Atrox in thongs, or if it changes visuals on characters so it would appear they have no pants, just like there are always some people who would give the same treatment to Aimed Shot, Full Auto, Triples, CB, Evades, Mongo Rage, GTH, Malpractise, (take your pick).

But that's just forums for you. Everyone claims to be PvP maniac, but at the same time wants to remove from game every thing that can kill him.

If you want to adjust the way how fast it fires , or how often can be fired, or the way how it activates or put more lockdowns on it , or how fast the warning message appears, or the other stuff , be my guest, but the idea to castrate it is very wrong.

[Hacre]

So sayeth the Omni

[IHaveHugeNick]

The amount of 'he's wrong because he is omni' reasoning in this thread shows how many people are just trying to score points for their side, rather then getting things fixed. Cant say i'm suprised.

[Syphae]

The amount of 'he's wrong because he is omni' reasoning in this thread shows how many people are just trying to score points for their side, rather then getting things fixed. Cant say i'm suprised.

Don't over look the fact that anything that is said, Hacre responds and makes it Hacre Online.

Anyways... on a more serious note..

Means,

Would it be possible in any way... to have some proc descriptions put in on the LE procs? I'm sure it's nice auno is getting lots of traffic looking up what these actually do.. lol but a description similar to nano description would be 100% uber

ty in advance

[Racsi]

Definitely option 2.

[abdros]

My humble suggestion

1. a. Change: Require the Laser Tag to be planted by a toon that is withing the Tower Field's lvl.
b. Reasoning: To keep a toon that is 100 lvls above or bellow from participating in a Tower
Battle that he or she is NOT supposed to. This brings up other issues addressed later.

2. a. Change: Make the planting of the Laser Tag instantaneous.
b. Reasoning: In real war, laser taggers go behind enemy lines, and are soldiers who can die.
Not super humans who walk immune through the firefight. If a toon will risk his life by
coming close to the enemy, and probably die, it should have the chance to plant the Laser
Tag. The time from the Laser Tag plant to the actual explosion should not be too long.

3. a. Change: The damage of from the explosion should be reduced the farther away from the
epicenter.
b. Reasoning: Real bombs do more damage where they go off than 100 or 1000 feet away, and
damage is greater at 100ft than at 1000ft. This would not only simplify logic programing, but
would give the guys who saw the tag planted a little chance to run (not too much please).
The "Damage Rings" should be larger and do more damage the higher the tower field's lvl (again programing
(logic simplified).

[Towerblock]

Agreed with above post: Make sure we don't see level 80's with laser tags running around in 250 fields getting ready to spike the ball. If my engi can only set up jamming towers according to the pvp range, then those whom are not within the appropriate levels should not be able to completely bypass my level lock. (saw this several times in the past month, VERY frustrating)

I have never liked the idea of OS at all. Combined with super powerful and very specific SB lines can create and imbalance that is far too often taken advantage of. IMO, the only way to eliminate the problem altogether is to make sure that advantages are clearly not able to be had by one faction or another. I can suggest certain ways to do it, but I highly doubt you're going to completely edit out OS or SB or anything of the sort. So far, it seems to be standard that once something is in.. it stays in (although it can be tweaked, it remains in nonetheless). I'm with the idea that since the subject creates far too much adversarial attitudes, to make sure that NO ONE has any distinct faction advantage.

[Lektronik]

Right. You're still armchair PvPing I see.

Omni SB root.
Clan SB Cleanse.
Omni SB root again.
Clan SB Clea....oh wait, can't, locked out.

Well if you are a dummy to send your whole raid force into one tiny area to get rooted all the time, that's your problem.

If your life was on the line for real, how would you avoid SB root+OS? Pretend that NW is real life and you are on the battlefield and if you die, you really die.....now....what would you do with your raid force then? If your answer is "run in a tight group and whine when OS'd" then you are a dead man.

[Hacre]

Well if you are a dummy to send your whole raid force into one tiny area to get rooted all the time, that's your problem.

If your life was on the line for real, how would you avoid SB root+OS? Pretend that NW is real life and you are on the battlefield and if you die, you really die.....now....what would you do with your raid force then? If your answer is "run in a tight group and whine when OS'd" then you are a dead man.

Life isn't on the line for real, it is a game, duh.

What does everyone do when there's only one target left (CT) genius? Should melee professions become largely worthless at NW because they have no choice but to be in close proximity to the blast zone if they want to get that 250 CT down or should a flawed design be looked at?

I've been to countless tower battles where every time the field is leveled down to the CT, no problem, OSes dodged, SBs foiled. However, when it comes to a single stationary target with a limited attack radius (lest we not forget how range to a target works in AO, when the hitzone of what you're hitting is almost 40m in the air) you either have all your main DD on the CT, leaving them open for the good old SB+OS+pick off the stragglers with the bulk of your defense force that was previously sitting nice and safe in 75%.

[kuznechik]

Well...

1. "Not 100% death" OS.
Offensively speaking - pair it with some powerful AoE and it's a win.
Defensively speaking - 3-4 doctors pressing their BGH1 and raidforce is back to full health, repeat with BGH2 on 2nd strike.

2. Knockback OS.
Well, you really need to tone down runspeed for it to be effective. Not with snares, but overall runspeed.

Please keep in mind how and what for OS is used at the moment.
1. To win time.
Some1 moved in into your tower field, you got flashy message about towers being attacked and then immediately after spam of 75/50/25/goes boom for towers. You go to towerfield and see 50+ players of opposite faction steamrolling the field. Defense will arrive in 10-15 minutes, maybe a bit less. People will relog to their mains, join pvp bot, wait for fixer to grid them or engi to warp, buff up...
You plant OS and hope that loss of some of attackers will defer them enough for defenders to gather and actually go defend.

2. To disperse other side before rush/while rushing.
It's way easier to pick off other side while they're running for their life from big bad badaboom coming from the sky... Same - when other side rush you - you better pre-plant that OS to hit them when they move in.

Actually - OS is a cure for zerg. Ultimate one. Unfortunately - AO doesn't propose any other viable way to fight, so in the end - it's still zerg, just with some russian roulette attached. "Remove OS" sounds almost like "Remove AS", just "Remove AS" cry is more old.

Players want to pvp at tl7 towers.
Only vial way to pvp at tl7 towers is with zerg (well, unless you're attacking at 4:00 CET).
OS makes zerg dead.
Players who want to pvp at tl7 towers ask for OS removal.

I'd ask to think about solution to zerg and giving good way to pvp at towers w/o zerg. Then OS will wipe zerg and all will be happy again, just w/o zerg. Back in the days clanners on RK2 made very good progress tactic-wise, w/o falling to zerg attacks. But they lost to omni zerg since they had less numbers in the end.


P.S.: making OS plantable by only people in CT' range is good idea, just need to tune down laser mark cost for lowbies somehow. 1k on tl1-2 is a much.
P.P.S.: While on it - increase damage dealt by high ql (175-300) towers. Currently it's of no consequence. Increase must be at least 5x. Onoz, I was hit for 300 hp, I gonna die... I'm so gonna die... Also increase range of CT to 40m, turn it into AoE attack and make it's attack damage be scaled with amount of towers on the field, so yes, it'll be 1-shotting people with 60 towers on field and still hit hard when it's only CT.

[Lupusceleri]

Well if you are a dummy to send your whole raid force into one tiny area to get rooted all the time, that's your problem.

If your life was on the line for real, how would you avoid SB root+OS? Pretend that NW is real life and you are on the battlefield and if you die, you really die.....now....what would you do with your raid force then? If your answer is "run in a tight group and whine when OS'd" then you are a dead man.

Not go to war at all.

Running around in one big group means you can't be easily zerged. But you can be SB+OSed. So you die.

Running around in a lot of small groups means that you can't be SB+OSed. But you can be easily zerged by the opposite side's raidforce that doesn't have to watch out for SB+OS - and will thus walk around in one big group. Such a big group can easily mop up all the small groups usually without even one in their group dieing. So you die.

Got alternatives?

[Lektronik]

Life isn't on the line for real, it is a game, duh.

What does everyone do when there's only one target left (CT) genius? Should melee professions become largely worthless at NW because they have no choice but to be in close proximity to the blast zone if they want to get that 250 CT down or should a flawed design be looked at?

I've been to countless tower battles where every time the field is leveled down to the CT, no problem, OSes dodged, SBs foiled. However, when it comes to a single stationary target with a limited attack radius (lest we not forget how range to a target works in AO, when the hitzone of what you're hitting is almost 40m in the air) you either have all your main DD on the CT, leaving them open for the good old SB+OS+pick off the stragglers with the bulk of your defense force that was previously sitting nice and safe in 75%.

Such limited thinking....no wonder all the whining.

And who said life was on the line here? I didn't. I was trying to help you see how you could win instead of whine. Apparently you are too simple for that.

Not go to war at all.

Running around in one big group means you can't be easily zerged. But you can be SB+OSed. So you die.

Running around in a lot of small groups means that you can't be SB+OSed. But you can be easily zerged by the opposite side's raidforce that doesn't have to watch out for SB+OS - and will thus walk around in one big group. Such a big group can easily mop up all the small groups usually without even one in their group dieing. So you die.

Got alternatives?

Who said you are limited to either running around in a big group or running around in smaller groups? Why not both? It can work a number of different ways. I'm not going to provide examples to whiners however (not saying lup is a whiner tho).

[Kaylinne]

Life isn't on the line for real, it is a game

Not sure everyone on this forum would agree with that

Well if you are a dummy to send your whole raid force into one tiny area to get rooted all the time

Wonder why this made me lol.....


Did we get any answer about the release time of the booster yet btw?

[Avari]

It sounds to me like Means and FC directly or indirectly acknowledged the balance issue between Clan/Omni SBs used in conjunction with the OS mechanic. I don't see how any of the proposed changes does anything about said balance issue.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

I'm with Alco on the fact that NW needs a total revamp btw - good idea for the next booster imo. Special zones for Tower Wars or whatever where you can only bring a certain amount of people so we'll finally have quality > quantity fights and maybe even guild vs. guild in some form.

[Lupusceleri]

Who said you are limited to either running around in a big group or running around in smaller groups? Why not both? It can work a number of different ways. I'm not going to provide examples to whiners however (not saying lup is a whiner tho).

Ok, you still don't seem to understand it.

Let's say both sides have 50 players there. We're going to merge the extremes now, just like you said.

One side stays in one big group, that would be the omnis, since they don't have to fear for SB roots.

The other side splits up in two groups - each 25 peoples, that would be the clans, since they are the side that can be SB rooted and so SB+OSed. Splitting in two groups of for example 45 and 5 toons would be stupid, the 5 toons don't even count when they get steamrolled while the 45 toons would get SB+OSed as usual.

But anyway. Are you going to tell us, that you HONESTLY believe, that a raidforce of 25 toons (without SB/OS I might add) is going stand up to a raidforce of 50 toons (with SB/OS I might add), and win? Sorry, but if you really do believe that, I'm sorry to burst your bubble. Those 50 toons are going to steamroll over the 25 toons in no time. Yes the force of 50 will lose some toons in the fight but let's say they have 40 toons left by the time the first 25-raidforce is wiped, then they will still have no problems AT ALL killing the second 25-raidforce.

Splitting up your raidforce at a towerwar is NOT going to work, unless you hugely outnumber the other side or are fighting noobs or something along those lines. That's not the case in a normal towerwar.

So, please, if you DO have a theory that might work, PM it to me if you don't want the "whiners" to see it. I'd be delighted to know.