[RK1] IRRK Freelance: Newland's Peace Project Rejected by Omni-Tek

[Iaitoo]

You'll see.

[Jenshiye]

*Nods and puts thinking hat with propellor back on.*

[Swordbreaker]

Clan isn't occupying omni-2 they own it.
Omni is occupying Borealis, but the true spirit of the city is still neutral. And this occupation aren't really permanent anyway.

So if the Clans invade a city owned by the Corporation, slaughter its populace and settle it before the blood of the countless innocents they murdered in cold blood has even dried up, they suddenly become the "owners" of the said city, but when the Corporation comes back to a city that it built some time ago and abandoned temporarily, during which time squatters, whom had no lawful claim to the city, chose to move into the said city... It is considered "an occupying force"? Even though the Corporation showed remarkable generosity when it let the said squatters stay in the city and continue their lives undisrupted?

By this same logic, it seems you would have preferred that the Corporation had ruthlessly murdered every single Neutral citizen in Borealis, no matter how innocent they are, for then you, personally, would have considered it the Corporation's property once more!

[Jenshiye]

What you just described is known as conquering. It happens, countries, factions and groups take possession of lands and cities.

Consider, Italy was known as the country of the Romans but history shows us that the origal Romans came from Turkey with Aeneas of burnt and sacked Troy from the famous Trojan war.

Italy was the Romans', they conquered it.

[trousers]

What you just described is known as conquering. It happens, countries, factions and groups take possession of lands and cities.

Consider, Italy was known as the country of the Romans but history shows us that the origal Romans came from Turkey with Aeneas of burnt and sacked Troy from the famous Trojan war.

Italy was the Romans', they conquered it.

Do Conquered people lose their identity? The answer is no. By that token, should conquered possessions lose their rightful owners? No.

To conquer something means you have taken it from it's rightful owner by force; Which the Clans did to Omni-2. Omni-2 was conquered, not purchased. This means the Clans may claim Occupation or Possession of the City, however, the lawful ownership still lies with Omni-Tek and it is within Omni-Tek's right to exercise it's claim of ownership any time it feels fit.

I would also like to note on the nay sayers who say "If it was Omni-Tek's they would have taken it back by now"; Omni-Tek could, should it decide to, launch an attack on Omni-2 the likes of which you could not imagine and re-gain ownership. The Corporation has not at this point because of the large civilian population that lives in Omni-2. The Corporation will continue to exercise discretion and cool headed judgement when it comes to engaging civilians in military conflicts.

As for Borealis, Well, I've said my peace on this topic. And I agree, the Neutrals should be thankful that the Corporation does not act like the Clans - Otherwise they'd all be dead.

[Jenshiye]

Do Conquered people lose their identity? The answer is no. By that token, should conquered possessions lose their rightful owners? No.

To conquer something means you have taken it from it's rightful owner by force; Which the Clans did to Omni-2. Omni-2 was conquered, not purchased. This means the Clans may claim Occupation or Possession of the City, however, the lawful ownership still lies with Omni-Tek and it is within Omni-Tek's right to exercise it's claim of ownership any time it feels fit.

I would also like to note on the nay sayers who say "If it was Omni-Tek's they would have taken it back by now"; Omni-Tek could, should it decide to, launch an attack on Omni-2 the likes of which you could not imagine and re-gain ownership. The Corporation has not at this point because of the large civilian population that lives in Omni-2. The Corporation will continue to exercise discretion and cool headed judgement when it comes to engaging civilians in military conflicts.

As for Borealis, Well, I've said my peace on this topic. And I agree, the Neutrals should be thankful that the Corporation does not act like the Clans - Otherwise they'd all be dead.

The citizens were slaughtered, the inhabitants and their decendants are dead, so they can't lay a claim.

[Swordbreaker]

The citizens were slaughtered, the inhabitants and their decendants are dead, so they can't lay a claim.

The Corporation was not defeated in its entirety by the sneak attack of the Clans back in the day. The Corporation still has its claim over Omni-2. What you are suggesting would require that the Corporation had admitted defeat and surrendered to the Clans.

It did not.

Omni-2 is still the property of the Corporation. Until such day that the Corporation sells it to the Clans and/or relinquishes its claim over it, no matter how unlikely... The Clans are in unlawful possession of Omni-Tek property. But then again, when you say things like this, it becomes obvious that you think that the Corporation should have killed every man, woman and child in Borealis to reassert its claim on the city. Since only then would it be the Corporation's once more in your eyes.

Although I guess you would be even more vocally (if not up in arms) against the Corporation at that point. You are obviously biased against the Corporation. Makes me think that you aren't really neutral to begin with. It is odd how some people consider the Corporation "oppressive" and "evil" while the Clans get away with the murder of countless innocents!

As for your "claim" on Borealis... As far as I am aware, the owner of a facility, whatever the facility might be, stays as the owner of the facility, even if squatters show up and start living in it (unannounced, not paying rent and so forth). The squatters have no legal rights to the place they live in, even if they supposedly renovate it and develop it. Indeed, if the rightful owner would so choose, they could kick these squatters out at any given time.

[trousers]

The Idea that the Corporation can be benevolent is something people refuse to allow themselves to believe. This hate speech is taught in the Clan Academies and it has penetrated the Neutrals to the deepest level - infecting their governments.

I'm beginning to believe that The Corporation should consider petitioning the ICC to all for a full-scale surface war against all those who are or harbor terrorists or terroristic tendencies.

Should the hate mongering of The Clans and the Neutrals be allowed to go on unchecked it may result in additional confrontations against the corporation which could cause notum operations on Rubi-Ka to cease with no guarantee that exports will resume. Without the knowledge and expertise that Omni-Mining, Omni-Engineering, and Omni-Trans bring the operations will likely be taken over by competing Clans and Warlords and the system will fall into a perpetual state of dysfunction having a drastic impact on the galaxy as a whole.

I can only hope that the Leaders of the Neutrals and the Clans realize that actions such as Omni-Tek re-asserting control over Borealis are Legal and actions such as The Unionists sieging control of 4 Holes, is not.

[Towerblock]

I laugh at people's attempts to tell people their own version of the 'truth' taking precedence over others 'versions' of the truth.

And the insinuation that if Clans were running things people would be dead.

Damn right people will die. I won't lie to you at all about it. The rest of the world more than likely isn't cut out to live our lives the way we do. We're all cut outta different cloth, and yes... sometimes things shake up and get realistic every now and then. You couldn't expect me to work under your ways, why in the hell should you think you will fit perfectly into ours?

But I will tell you what isn't realistic, and that is this: The ridiculous insinuation brought to you by Trousers, Inc is wholly incorrect. This will only happen if you come to us and think you're all that and a bag of leet snacks, only to have your reality check cashed in front of you, don't say I didn't tell you so.

Clanfolk don't muck about with insults. You either come with it, or you get rolled over like a pig in a stall. And if you think we're the only people who think this way, you are dead wrong. Ask your local Unicorn constable about what he feels about guns being pointed in his face, and I guarantee you'll be met with similar results.

So you can stop with your retarded pre-conceptions about whats what, because if you came to anyone's door with a axe to grind, you will be send home without your lunch money, fast. And if I were to come to your doorstep and tell you what's what in your own home, if you didn't respond in kind.. I wouldn't respect you.

Unlike the corporation, we dont hide our treachery under funtabulous corporate monkeybabble and loopholes. If we don't like you, chances are it will show quite openly.

[Jenshiye]

This is where people show how weak they know their arguements are:

...You are obviously biased against the Corporation. Makes me think that you aren't really neutral to begin with. It is odd how some people consider the Corporation "oppressive" and "evil" while the Clans get away with the murder of countless innocents!

Clan are not better, they simply seek to remove and then replace Omni-Tek. I don't see any need for Omni-Tek and yes I believe that they are "evil".

...
As for your "claim" on Borealis... As far as I am aware, the owner of a facility, whatever the facility might be, stays as the owner of the facility, even if squatters show up ...

You are not controlling the land around them, they are not under the sway of your laws or law enforcements. So they are not squatters, they are conquerers.

[Swordbreaker]

Clan are not better, -- I don't see any need for Omni-Tek and yes I believe that they are "evil".

So, you consider the Clans evil as well? Then, why would they be a better choice than Omni-Tek, as you keep insinuating? And why is there a "need" for the Clans if there is none for Omni-Tek if both are evil? I am getting this strange feeling that you are a Clansman masquerading as a Neutral.

they simply seek to remove and then replace Omni-Tek.

The Clans cannot replace the corporations any more than ants could replace humanity. Even if they somehow would manage to kick Omni-Tek off Rubi-Ka, there are countless other corporations just waiting for a chance to come in and continue our work and line their pockets with notum money. Although I am quite sure that any and all limitations on the Corporation's military presence on Rubi-Ka would be relinquished the moment it would seem the Clans are winning. You see, the ICC acts in the interest of the corporations - and that is the only reason why the Clans still exist. It is beneficial for the majority of the corporations, even if it is detrimental to us. If the planet we live on was not the source of the most precious mineral in Galaxy, there would never have been any Clans, nor Neutrals. Only us.

A "democratic country" controlling the most profitable planet in the Galaxy... One has to be extremely naive to think that that would ever happen. Or stay up for any longer than a few weeks at best, if it somehow did happen. So, in your view it would be better that the Clans "won", then get destroyed by the client corporations of the ICC and be replaced by another "evil" corporate entity (or entities)? Excellent choice.

You are not controlling the land around them, they are not under the sway of your laws or law enforcements. So they are not squatters, they are conquerers.

"Might makes right", huh? And I thought you said that we were the "evil" ones, yet you are the one who does not follow any other laws than that of strength. Well, guess what? Borealis is now controlled by the Corporation. Thus, by your very own reasoning, Borealis is the Corporation's, and you have no reason to criticize it for its actions.

And you should be well aware that the entirety of Rubi-Ka is under the laws of Omni-Tek, and, by extension, the ICC. If you choose to not follow them and then get hurt by your choices, that is your problem.

Too bad Omni-Tek military is so heavily regulated on Rubi-Ka as it is. Otherwise you would see the true meaning of strength.

[Jenshiye]

I could see a global government making a lot of profit for themselves and keeping that wealth on Rubi-Ka.

I was saying that I don't think the Clans would be a better choice.

War can't be very profitable and strenght sapping for Omni-Tek. Why is there a war? They are weak, have bad laws and are uninspirational.

[Towerblock]

"Might makes right", huh? And I thought you said that we were the "evil" ones, yet you are the one who does not follow any other laws than that of strength. Well, guess what? Borealis is now controlled by the Corporation. Thus, by your very own reasoning, Borealis is the Corporation's, and you have no reason to criticize it for its actions.

And you should be well aware that the entirety of Rubi-Ka is under the laws of Omni-Tek, and, by extension, the ICC. If you choose to not follow them and then get hurt by your choices, that is your problem.

Too bad Omni-Tek military is so heavily regulated on Rubi-Ka as it is. Otherwise you would see the true meaning of strength.

Yes. Might makes right. And if you think that Omni are exempt from this, then you are dead wrong. Considering Omni-Pol has a wide charter dedicated to ushering their right, with might, then yes... Omni are no different.

And by the by, since were on the subject of spit and vinegar here, you should be happy that the corporation hasn't brought all their arms to bare upon my kinsmen, because then.. you would have a much larger problem on your hands, considering tyranny is not something people are a fan of these days. I am willing to bet such inhumanity would cause stir even amongst your own ranks, and you'll be not only fully, but openly validating everything we already have grievances for.

I am not really sitting right with the idea that the corporation is 'evil' insomuch. I mean, that would almost be giving you a sense of power for such a claim. I just think the people who make the big decisions blatantly disregard basic human rights. This is on top of being the largest group of self-promoting jerkoffs who think that creds mean more than people. And not only do they do this to the people who fall outside of their imposed barriers, but their own people as well. History calls this sort of infrastructure 'imperialism', and rarely has their ever been an imperial state that didn't fall down without the help of it rotting from within.

[Swordbreaker]

Why is there a war?

Because Omni-Tek follows the rulings of the ICC, no matter how strange that might sound to you. I am convinced that it is in th ICC's best interests that there is conflict on Rubi-Ka. Why else would they suddenly get interested in what's going on here, when they don't care about other planets where there have been uprisings of this nature in?

Notum is a prized commodity all around the Galaxy. If the Clans sell it for less through their own channels than Omni-Tek does to fund their war, obviously this is "beneficial" for the majority of the ICC. Once they have outlived their usefulness... They will be discarded. Sad, but very likely to be true.

Yes. Might makes right. And if you think that Omni are exempt from this, then you are dead wrong.

I never said that Omni-Tek is exempt of this principle. I am just saying that Omni-Tek also sometimes obviously chooses to go against this principle, as shown by the peaceful takeover of Borealis. No matter what you think, the neutrals have been, for the most part, left alone to go on with their business.

you would have a much larger problem on your hands, considering tyranny is not something people are a fan of these days.

I do not see what you are talking about. I'd say there'd be less problems, as shown by the hundreds of worlds which are perfectly calm and peaceful even while the corporations are as "tyrannic" as they are, as you say. Most people are perfectly content with their lives.

I am willing to bet such inhumanity would cause stir even amongst your own ranks,

Bah. If you had the means for it, you would commit further genocide when removing Omni-Tek from this planet just as much. Just that you are in a position where your opponent has the means, but is not allowed to use them due to laws that it follows while you don't. How lucky for you.

I don't see how getting rid of the Clans would cause a "stir" within the ranks of the Corporation. Isn't that one of our objectives in this fight, anyway? Just like one of your objectives is to get rid of us.

and you'll be not only fully, but openly validating everything we already have grievances for.

I think that we have a Casus Belli which would allow us to such actions. You have exterminated entire populations on this planet while claiming to be "better" than us. Because somehow your way, which is a path to the destruction of this planet, is "better".

And you know, I think "Oh God, they killed a city full of people!" is a far larger grievance than "uh, some guys died in a mining accident".

I just think the people who make the big decisions blatantly disregard basic human rights.

How so? The Corporation offers people safety, a place to live in, entertainment, food, a purpose in life and so on. What do the Clans offer? Strife, death, possibility for starvation and... Their own brand of "freedom".

This is on top of being the largest group of self-promoting jerkoffs who think that creds mean more than people.

Like your Vanguards, yes? I am under the impression that they would do nearly anything for a quick buck, except maybe betray the Clans wholesale.

And you do realize that Omni-Tek and all the members of the ICC are corporations? While they do look after their employees, they are of course also concerned with the bottom line.

History calls this sort of infrastructure 'imperialism', and rarely has their ever been an imperial state that didn't fall down without the help of it rotting from within.

And rarely has there ever been a "democratic" or "communist" or whatever state that did not fall the same way under their own sheer impossibility. Otherwise they would be still with us, now wouldn't they? Why would we live in this Galaxy controlled by corporations if this was not the case?

[Towerblock]

I never said that Omni-Tek is exempt of this principle. I am just saying that Omni-Tek also sometimes obviously chooses to go against this principle, as shown by the peaceful takeover of Borealis. No matter what you think, the neutrals have been, for the most part, left alone to go on with their business.

Its so peaceful, bullets kill random passersby. Now that IS the true definition of peace.

I do not see what you are talking about. I'd say there'd be less problems, as shown by the hundreds of worlds which are perfectly calm and peaceful even while the corporations are as "tyrannic" as they are, as you say. Most people are perfectly content with their lives.

Of course you don't think so, because if you did, then you wouldn't make such an argument. And I didn't say corporation(s)... I said Omni-tek. Might I also point out the amount of worlds that are left to their own devices?

Bah. If you had the means for it, you would commit further genocide when removing Omni-Tek from this planet just as much. Just that you are in a position where your opponent has the means, but is not allowed to use them due to laws that it follows while you don't. How lucky for you.

First of all, dont tell me what you think what I had means for and what I don't. You obviously don't know jack about what I want and what I dont want. I have never, nor will I, espouse any such edict as full on elimination of Omni-tek, because that is outright unreasonable. I would levy no genocide against anyone, under any umbrella. Insinuating that I would, makes you look foolish. On top of the idea that it matters little in the overall scheme of things of what law or whatever holding Omni back.. its just simple numbers. It's not worth the dime of investment to overpower us when money can be spent much wisely in other aspects. Its far easier to starve an enemy out, than to pay salaries and and bring arms to bear against us.

I don't see how getting rid of the Clans would cause a "stir" within the ranks of the Corporation. Isn't that one of our objectives in this fight, anyway? Just like one of your objectives is to get rid of us.

If the corporation were to put to task, a pogram of genocide against clans, I bet you creds to bullets that you would far reaching human rights activism in such a way as to shame the Omni-tek name. Can the company afford to loose the monetary support from dissident branches? The workman's strikes for people who refuse to fire upon family members who are from opposing sides and opinions? Like I said, literally, you would revisit the same argument that started this entire thing. And might I remind you, that while we have opposing boundries now.. in the past it was the original clans, who broke away from the company. The ghosts of the past will return, and you can bet cash on that the response will be no different.

I think that we have a Casus Belli which would allow us to such actions. You have exterminated entire populations on this planet while claiming to be "better" than us. Because somehow your way, which is a path to the destruction of this planet, is "better".

I have exterminated no one. The only clan that I am aware of that would seek to destroy the company entirely, are the Sentinels. I do not support the Sentinels, and never have. If you have a beef with Simon, you take it up with him.

How so? The Corporation offers people safety, a place to live in, entertainment, food, a purpose in life and so on. What do the Clans offer? Strife, death, possibility for starvation and... Their own brand of "freedom".

First of all, let me break it down for you like this. The company cannot offer me anything that I cannot get for myself, and my family. In my experience, the Corporation has offered me lies and treachery in paper form, with the express litigation that should I not follow their guidelines, that my life would end in termination. Somehow, this does not sound like freedom to me.

Secondly, let me tell you what the clans offer me:
1. The freedom to choose the path my life would take.
2. The freedom to choose different from what the company would present me, and nothing outside of it.
3. The freedom to work in an environment that did not include my death as final severance.
4. The freedom of me to choose, who and what my true enemy is.
5. The freedom to pursue my happiness and prosperity.
6. The freedom to choose what my life means to me, and not as a numerical unit of an infrastructure that would cage me into believing it is the 'only' choice.

Death, starvation, and all these things that you stressed previously, are things that can happen.. but don't often do. If a man dies of starvation or disease, then he did not take care in respecting the life he had. If he did not respect his life, then nature claims and the cycle continues. I am a successful worker, and my name is known by the sweat, blood, and toil that I have sought. In the clan world, his name means more to him than the cash in his account. In our world, we have lies and treachery, but it is the honest man who lives the best. People know me because I deliver upon my promises. Such is the way of all of our leaders. You can trust us to be who we are, not what some paper says. The clans live hard lives, but it is the strongest who prosper. And do not think that it is mere physical strength, but mental and security as well. Our strength is in our values. To the company man, it may seem we have none, but nothing could be farther from the truth. It is the value systems that make us different than you. These freedoms may seem simple to you, but its the small differences and imperfections that can cause huge disagreements. My brand of freedom includes heavy responsibilities, but a strong man or woman of the clans can endure and overcome, and still respect himself at the end of the work week. The clan way, is integrity. Integrity may be worth nothing to the company worker, but to us it means everything.

Like your Vanguards, yes? I am under the impression that they would do nearly anything for a quick buck, except maybe betray the Clans wholesale.

Now be quite careful whom you are attacking, because I am on good terms with Mister Jacobi, and the Vanguards. Your impression is false. He may be good with business, but that does not make him a profiteer. Without his 'racket' our fine capitol would still be in ruins. You don't hail such a man as a pirate or a mere credmonger. Where I come from, we call him 'sir'. In many ways, I honor this man over others, because without his kind of power and leverage.. we wouldn't be where we are. Don't let the cigars and cologne fool you into thinking him weak or shallow.

And you do realize that Omni-Tek and all the members of the ICC are corporations? While they do look after their employees, they are of course also concerned with the bottom line.

And rarely has there ever been a "democratic" or "communist" or whatever state that did not fall the same way under their own sheer impossibility. Otherwise they would be still with us, now wouldn't they? Why would we live in this Galaxy controlled by corporations if this was not the case?

You ask me this like you think I have no idea what a hypercorporate entity or institution is. It must be a burden to come to the diplomatic table thinking we are too uneducated to understand what all that is.

Im a huge fan of history, sir. And yes, the times do change and things can either be stable or not.. but tribal and communal systems are a constant. Councils of wise men and women who would represent their body politic are a constant. We dont have the responsibility of thinking on a much larger scale yet, because the opportunity is not there. But one thing stands above all, and that is leadership is leadership, not matter what sort of label you wish to put to it.

And it just so happens our leadership is built up of strong characters. We might not all agree on a communal course of action, but do we need to? I might not like certain leaders, but should I shame them for their merit? Is it wise to force a leader to go against the will of his or her people, to make them work in accord with mine? Do I force them? A sword to their back? Why deny another person's right to choose for themselves who their friends or enemies are? It is not within our realm of thought to impose some pre-conceived guideline over each other. It is simply enough to teach our children to respect each other, and their children to do so, and so on and so forth. Not point a battlestation's gun platform at them, to provide pressure on the parents to 'work for the company or die.'

Or did you selectively forget that your leadership, is, in fact.. doing that very thing right now at this very moment?

[Swordbreaker]

Its so peaceful, bullets kill random passersby. Now that IS the true definition of peace.

They do? I haven't noticed. Any more than before Omni-Tek took control of Borealis, that is.

Of course you don't think so, because if you did, then you wouldn't make such an argument. And I didn't say corporation(s)... I said Omni-tek.

Yes. You said Omni-Tek. And I'm saying that Omn-Tek is not the only corporation in the Galaxy, nor is it alone in its ways. The only thing that makes Omni-Tek so special to you is the fact that you are fighting it yourself.

Might I also point out the amount of worlds that are left to their own devices?

That are outnumbered by the ones that are not by... Quite a large number? And aren't anywhere near as important as RK is to the galactic economy?

First of all, dont tell me what you think what I had means for and what I don't.

"You" as in "the Clans". Should've been obvious, unless you are intentionally misinterpreting my words. If you thought it was a personal attack, well... That's your own damn problem.

I have never, nor will I, espouse -- elimination of Omni-tek,

While the majority of the Clans do.

because that is outright unreasonable.

Not only unreasonable, but also impossible.

I would levy no genocide against anyone, --

You wouldn't. But the entity you represent would.

On top of the idea that it matters little in the overall scheme of things of what law or whatever holding Omni back --

Technically, yes, it is. You are correct. The ICC is far stronger as a whole than Omni-Tek is. That is why its word is Law, after all - and it has the backing of the hyper corporations of the Galaxy.

It's not worth the -- investment to overpower us when money can be spent much wisely --

It would be worth the money if it didn't mean a war against the ICC, I think. Considering how important notum is to the galaxy, having the Clans sell it for less in the black market is bad for business, even if th Corporation still gets paid a hefty amount for it.

Its far easier to starve an enemy out, than to pay salaries and and bring arms to bear --

Yes, it would be. But it also takes a lot more time which means more long term losses. I'd say it'd be cheaper to bring those people to this planet and deal with the problem now than let it swell.

Leaving a cancerous growth alone and letting it grow stronger rather than doing something about it has been known to be a bad choice.

If the corporation were to put to task, a pogram of genocide against clans, I bet -- that you would far reaching human rights activism in such a way as to -- Omni-tek --

Like the case of exterminating the people in Omni-2 did to the Clans, hm? Unlike you, the Corporation has non-combatants. If you are a Clanner, that means you're a rebel, and that means you are a combatant. I don't see how quelling a rebellion on the most important planet of the Galaxy would be seen as a "bad thing" by humanity at large.

And I'm sure the Corporation would give people a chance to return to Omni-Tek through Omni-Reform. That is a lot more than what the Clans are known to give to Omni-Tek employees.

Can the company afford to loose the monetary support from dissident branches?

From what? You mean that parts of Omni-Tek would secede from it if the Clans were eliminated?

I find that hard to believe. I think they would be more likely to rejoice than anything else.

The workman's strikes for people who refuse to fire upon family members who are from opposing sides and opinions?

Ah, but we're a bit far from that place, aren't we? You (the Clans) aren't just having "opposing opinions" at this point. You are killing Omni-Tek employees yourselves, regardless of whether they are fighting you or not.

That is why you are called "rebels" rather than just "dissenters". Dissenters aren't known to go off murdering large numbers of people to take their lands for their own use.

The ghosts of the past will return, and you can bet cash on that the response will be no different.

Maybe. Maybe not. Depends. Things like whether or not the Corporation has made working conditions better for the miners come to mind. Which they probably have. Otherwise I guess we'd be standing on dead troxes where ever we go on RK.

The only clan that -- would seek to destroy the company -- are the Sentinels.

Oh, so now you go off claiming that there are no other Clanners than those of the so called "Legacy" Clans? How... Strange.

The company cannot offer me anything that I cannot get for myself, and my family.

So you and your family has explorers who found this planet, space ships of its own which brought you and your family here, terraforming equipment which could make a planet bearable for humans, mining equipment for gaining access to notum to sell to gain credits and so forth?

I doubt it.

The prosperity of the Clans lies squarely on the shoulders of the Corporation, from which they have leeched everything they have.

-- the Corporation has offered me lies and treachery in paper form, with the express litigation that should I not follow their guidelines, that my life would end in termination.

"Lies and treachery in paper form", huh. Wonder what that entailed, considering that I can't remember receiving this particular memo. Or is that just a part of the Clan rhetoric?

-- the clans offer me:
1. The freedom to choose the path my life would take.

The freedom to choose to stay on Rubi-Ka and die in a blast of gunfire.

2. The freedom to choose different from what the company would present me, and nothing outside of it.

The freedom to choose what your own leaders tell you.

3. The freedom to work in an environment that did not include my death as final severance.

So the Clans have found the answer to mortality? Interesting.

4. The freedom of me to choose, who and what my true enemy is.

The freedom to choose between "Omni-Tek" and "Omni-Tek", isn't it? Considering that the Clans are opposing us, not "magical fairies of Zuugafloogah".

5. The freedom to pursue my happiness and prosperity.

You mean "the freedom to dream of happiness and prosperity", as it stands. Anyone can do that.

6. The freedom to choose what my life means to me, and not as a numerical unit of an infrastructure --

Employees of the Corporation can do that just as well, even if those in higher ranks don't. Since, you know, that would be an impossibility. You can't have countless people and know them all.

Otherwise we wouldn't be human beings, now would we. Note that you were an employee yourself - the Corporation, ultimately, gave you the choice to go Clan, no matter how ill-advised that is.

Death, starvation, and all these things that you stressed previously, are things that can happen.. but don't often do.

Again with the immortality device, I see? The Clans have defeated death entirely! Oh my.

If a man dies of starvation or disease, then he did not take care in respecting the life he had.

Yes, because every case of famine is really just a case of people being disrespectful of their own lives.

If he did not respect his life, then nature claims and the cycle continues.

The "cycle" continues no matter one does, however.

In the clan world, his name means more to him than the cash in his account.

Yes, because in the Clan world, people live in a communist utopia where everyone gets as much as they need!

Though, that would go against the Vanguards and their money making scheme... So I guess one would still care a whole lot about his cash in his account after all.

In our world, we have lies and treachery, but it is the honest man who lives the best.

Ah, an idealist.

People know me because I deliver upon my promises.

And, as odd as it may sound, there are people within Omni-Tek who *gasp* have this trait as well.

-- You can trust us to be who we are, not what some paper says.

Regular, naive Clan rhetoric. I'm starting to wonder whether the Clans have a brainwashing scheme or something to make people who actually believe things like this. Everybody lies.

The clans live hard lives, but it is the strongest who prosper.

So that's why the weak prosper within the Clans as well! ... Hmm... OH WAIT. Maybe it's because the lives of the Clansmen aren't really that hard, but this is just your run of the mill Clan rhetoric!

And do not think that it is mere physical strength, but mental and security as well.

Yes, because the Corporation has survived for as long as it has simply based on physical strength! ... OH WAIT. No it hasn't!

Our strength is in our values.

That change when you need them to. Consistency isn't a predominant Clanner trait.

My brand of freedom includes heavy responsibilities, but a strong man or woman of the clans can endure and overcome, and still respect himself at the end of the work week.

So basically you run with a system very similar to the Corporation's, except that instead of "Dos" and "Don'ts" given by the Corporation you think you have some say over what the rules are, while you don't.

The clan way, is integrity. Integrity may be worth nothing to the company worker, but to us it means everything.

And then claim that it is simply because of "integrity". Got it.

Now be quite careful whom you are attacking, because I am on good terms with Mister Jacobi, and the Vanguards.

Which makes your views unreliable. Too bad.

Your impression is false.

Says a man who is a friend of the Vanguards.

He may be good with business, but that does not make him a profiteer.

It also doesn't mean that he isn't one.

Without his 'racket' our fine capitol would still be in ruins.

That wouldn't be, in truth, because they hold their headquarters in Omni-2 now would it?

No, can't be. Because they're the AVATARS of INTEGRITY.

You don't hail such a man as a pirate or a mere credmonger.

Your words, not mine.

Where I come from, we call him 'sir'.

I thought you said you come from the Corporation. Here we call him "a rebel".

Don't let the cigars and cologne fool you into thinking him weak or shallow.

I'm not thinking he is weak or shallow. I'm thinking he is devious and cunning in how he makes the Clans jump the way he wants them to. These things are different.

You ask me this like you think I have no idea what a hypercorporate entity or institution is. It must be a burden to come to the diplomatic table thinking we are too uneducated to understand what all that is.

I asked what I asked because of your earlier statement, if it was not painfully obvious. How likely do you think it is that a hypercorporation would act like a welfare state rather than a... You know... Corporation?

but tribal and communal systems are a constant. Councils of wise men and women who would represent their body politic are a constant.

You mean "the place where things tend to reset to once all hell breaks loose". They aren't as much a "constant" as the "lowest and easiest form of government".

But one thing stands above all, and that is leadership is leadership, not matter what sort of label you wish to put to it.

... And?

And it just so happens our leadership is built up of strong characters.

Many dictators across the ages were "strong characters". Did that make them good leaders in your opinion?

We might not all agree on a communal course of action, but do we need to?

No. Because those leaders you don't agree with have guns behind them that might hurt, for starters. Don't go off claiming that you are running a "meritocracy" here.

Is it wise to force a leader to go against the will of his or her people, to make them work in accord with mine? Do I force them? A sword to their back?

What does this have anything with anything, again? And since when have the leaders of the Clans actually listened to what their people are saying, rather than just done things their way, others be damned?

It's not like they have been chosen by their people or anything. They chose their people, rather.

Why deny another person's right to choose for themselves who their friends or enemies are?

On a personal level, who's stopping me from choosing who's my friend and who isn't, exactly?

Unless you consider not being allowed to be a friend with a rebel is an infringement on my rights, which I don't think it is. I don't think your Clansman friends would be too happy with you being friends with an Omni-Tek employee, either...

It is not within our realm of thought to impose some pre-conceived guideline over each other.

So you have no laws? So people can kill, r*pe, steal and be just as idiotic as they want in any way possible?

No?

Then, guess what. You are still imposing guidelines on people. Unwritten laws are still laws.

It is simply enough to teach our children to respect each other, and their children to do so, and so on and so forth.

Aww. Now that is naive. Not every individual is responsive to an "understanding" upbringing. There are children who require boundaries, or else they will become the most horrible adults. And some become absolutely evil later in life even when they had good upbringings.

For a person who advocates freedom of choice and whatever, you seem to lack an understanding of the differences of people and their personalities.

Not point a battlestation's gun platform at them, to provide pressure on the parents to 'work for the company or die.'

While they would point the very same stations against the Corporation to do the same thing in reverse anyway.

Or did you selectively forget that your leadership, is, in fact.. doing that very thing right now at this very moment?

No, I didn't forget about that. But how much of it has actually come to fruitition, hmm?

And as you should know, both Omni-Tek and the Clans wanted the battlestations to be brought here.

[trousers]

Or did you selectively forget that your leadership, is, in fact.. doing that very thing right now at this very moment?

((That link needs to be passed back to ARK to be reviewed or stricken from the record because it 100% contradicts what's actually happening in-game.))

[Towerblock]

Well, boy, you certainly do quite have such a vivid imagination as to what clan life is all about, do ya? I mean, from your extensive expertise, has come the greatest slough of lies and exxagerations that has blessed this forum to date. I mean you have really outdone some of the other idiots that spit generalizations here, you sir, came and flavoured the lie with such panache. Grats to you.

I could go tit for tat on every single point and counterpoint, but I can quite obviously see its a waste of time and effort. We simply must disagree. No amount of speaking on what the clans are really about, would seem to alter your strategy of firing catty wit in lieu of the real deal. I mean lets face it, insults are the weakest and last line in every attack.

For any of you folks who would know what the life of a clanner is like, either fill the shoes and live our life, or ask someone who does. Anything else is a lie.

And just par for the course... while your leadership points a gun to my child's head, expect me to react in kind. If that labels me as an idealist or a rebel, then so be it. It matters little to me. If an idealist is a man who has a belief, and sticks to his ethic even in the face of adversity and death, then yes, this is who I am: Unbroken. Threaten it, and you will see nothing but my resolve. So if you must, come stick your nose in our fires. We shall see who comes away burned.

[playboyfixer]

(( let's just rename most [RK1] threads to RK2 for convenience ))

[XzSwiftcurse]

((I dont see your problem with rk2 omnies and clans making posts on RK1 threads, its almost the same there as here, omni hates clans are in war with them and the neuts are stuck in teh middle. cept for the fact you wont meet those guys online on rk1 (unless they make a toon), i tend to look at them as officers or clanners behind a desk, who dont like fresh air and wont come out to play ))