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Thread: The Rihwen and Carlo will no longer be nodrop.

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    So what do you sacrifice for being top-tier in both PvM and PvP, since you so desperately want to make this MP vs Engi?
    Rdord thinks splitting hairs makes for strong reasoning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    to be fair, 2.8k ar is enough to perk anyone except fixers, mas, advs, shades, nt's that blinded you, shield mps, bow mps that landed dazzle, def docs, crats, or marinesold

    so all in all it's a fairly viable setup

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    that actually sounds reasonable and a good way to put MP's nanoskills to use!
    And a way to fix the things being complained about in this thread xD Engineers would have more options to play with than nanoskill setup: buff -> combat setup: focused on personal damage/survivability. Nanoskills would have a use in combat and maybe some engineers would play around with keeping some of them in their normal setup.
    Last edited by Seoin; Apr 16th, 2013 at 22:26:25.

  3. #43
    another dumb down.
    You have already reached the maximum number of allowed accounts
    You are not allowed to create any new accounts

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    that actually sounds reasonable and a good way to put MP's nanoskills to use!
    That was one of the parts in rebalance, at least for MP pets. New Notum Scourge pet would take 2500 MC/TS to cast, but would increase in power at certain thresholds above that.

  5. #45
    I just wonder how many people screaming no to this in this thread actually have an engineer that they play? (parked in by for tskill mule isn't playing, btw)
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    ...Ranged professions enjoy a significant advantage everywhere and more so against pet professions...
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Note: Calling me an "incompetant ass-monkey", while admitedly is extremely amusing, does nothing to quantify what exactly, if anything, you would like to see changed in your/someone else's nanos.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Farlath View Post
    I just wonder how many people screaming no to this in this thread actually have an engineer that they play? (parked in by for tskill mule isn't playing, btw)
    Who are you to say how I wanna play the game ?

    As for the nanoskill AR based pets, It'd most likely be more swaps for pet professions as I reckon they wouldn't base the AR on a continous check, rather like they do runspeed for pets with a check on activating the shell/casting the pet.
    Last edited by Pennypacker; Apr 17th, 2013 at 01:25:30.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Farlath View Post
    I just wonder how many people screaming no to this in this thread actually have an engineer that they play? (parked in by for tskill mule isn't playing, btw)
    As you well know the AO community steers clear of FOTM professions.

    Naturally it angers people to suggest that engineers shouldn't have to right click items in their inventory as this is an important limiter on their supreme pvm and pvp power.
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by MassDebater View Post
    As you well know the AO community steers clear of FOTM professions.

    Naturally it angers people to suggest that engineers shouldn't have to right click items in their inventory as this is an important limiter on their supreme pvm and pvp power.
    Seriously? You do realize that other than MP/traders EVERY other prof must swap at least 1-2 items to cast some of their endgame nanos?

    I like my engi quite a bit but I also understand the sacrifices of playing that toon. I have played every prof in game to TL7 except fixer/shade (tl6's). So it's easy for me to sit back and laugh at QQ about a particular PERCEIVED difficiency in a proffession. ALL PROFS have difficiencies!!! ALL PROFS have some weaknesses (except advy lol). Remarkably Engi's have the best pvp attack pet(s) AND best toon pvp attack skill AND best pvp defenses of all pet classes. They are also clearly a superior pvm choice for DD, and team defense. (You could argue crat/mp evades in pvp untill you face off vs 4 agents!) If it were not for debuffs/boss calm crats would be teamed less than agents lol.

    So what exactly is the complaint? Are you saying that as a tl3+ engi you can't afford credits to cast a bot 1 time? You do realize you can stay logged in game in a backyard somewhere and not lose your pets right? You want your nano skill cost decreased for the best non player tank/aggro machines in game? At least engi's can cast their buffs with some swaps. Do you realize some profs like Keepers cant cast all their endgame nanos without OSB? Please for the love of Jobe quit while you can save some face and not fall further behind on this thread.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Seriously? You do realize that other than MP/traders EVERY other prof must swap at least 1-2 items to cast some of their endgame nanos?
    Enf doesn't. Crat Doesn't. Doc doesn't. That's off the top of my head and that also discounts the many people who are NR1 and 2 at tl7. Something unthinkable for engineer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I like my engi quite a bit but I also understand the sacrifices of playing that toon. I have played every prof in game to TL7 except fixer/shade (tl6's). So it's easy for me to sit back and laugh at QQ about a particular PERCEIVED difficiency in a proffession. ALL PROFS have difficiencies!!! ALL PROFS have some weaknesses (except advy lol). Remarkably Engi's have the best pvp attack pet(s) AND best toon pvp attack skill AND best pvp defenses of all pet classes.
    Engineers do no have the "best toon pvp attack skill" that is Bureaucrats.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    They are also clearly a superior pvm choice for DD, and team defense. (You could argue crat/mp evades in pvp untill you face off vs 4 agents!) If it were not for debuffs/boss calm crats would be teamed less than agents lol.
    Crats are bad DD. Gotcha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    So what exactly is the complaint? Are you saying that as a tl3+ engi you can't afford credits to cast a bot 1 time? You do realize you can stay logged in game in a backyard somewhere and not lose your pets right?
    I didn't realise I could sleep with my computer going.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    You want your nano skill cost decreased for the best non player tank/aggro machines in game?
    If this was correct engineer wouldn't be the worst tl7 soloers in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    At least engi's can cast their buffs with some swaps. Do you realize some profs like Keepers cant cast all their endgame nanos without OSB? Please for the love of Jobe quit while you can save some face and not fall further behind on this thread.
    iSOTOS: 7 minutes
    Keeper buffs: 4 hours
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



  10. #50
    So everyone reading this thread, if you go back to the OP and read the thread he got my responses in, this has all already been hashed out, it was shown that engineers don't know about basic game mechanics, can't decide what they actually have difficulty casting, and have to try denying very simply worded patch notes to make it look like they have the knowledge to back up their arguments. All I see in this thread is more of the same, though I'm not surprised that it's coming from Rdord. I'm sure Alcoydel would be in here embarrassing himself some more if his account were active.

    There are professions in much more dire need of attention than engineers, so suck it up that you can't be top tier in everything except soloing without putting in some effort. Or I suppose you could go play a single player game and use god mode.

  11. #51
    There's plenty of ways to make playing engineer less of a chore without increasing their power.

    Cast times, nano cost, credit cost, buff durations.


    I understand that it bothers you that your MP that you don't play on (and when you play on it, you don't pvp) is bad at pvp. But you have plenty of outlets to express your frustration elsewhere.
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Do you realize some profs like Keepers cant cast all their endgame nanos without OSB?
    You're doing it wrong then. I can self buff mine with a couple swaps and nerfed IP that went into RE/AS/Bow/MA/SO/SA/Perception.

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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by MassDebater View Post
    There's plenty of ways to make playing engineer less of a chore without increasing their power.

    Cast times, nano cost, credit cost, buff durations.


    I understand that it bothers you that your MP that you don't play on (and when you play on it, you don't pvp) is bad at pvp. But you have plenty of outlets to express your frustration elsewhere.
    There's plenty of games that cater to the lowest common denominator for you to switch to. Might I suggest ToonTown? It seems right up your alley, since swapping some gear is too tough for you to handle. Maybe some Club Penguin.

    It's cool that you're bitter. It's not really appropriate, since you've had 8 years of being a top-tier profession, but more power to you for being jaded despite having a loaded deck. However, asking for even more to be handed to you is simply too much. You want to have mochams? Then roll an MP, you can see what being underpowered actually feels like, instead of just continually insisting engineers are the nerfest.

    Your entire argument stems on things that other players have said. Not once has a developer mentioned nano cost and pet duration together. Even then, your argument changes every other post. First it's pet requirements are too high, then it's shown that they're a whole 1 MC/TS higher than Rihwen. Then it's that point for point engineer pets are weaker than others. Until the 1 MC/TS difference is pointed out again. Then it's having to rebuff every 7 minutes, until it's pointed out that MPs have had to deal with the same thing for a decade longer than engineers have. Then it's that "swapping armor to buff is an annoyance". So is everything else. Should FC just make everything castable with 1 point? Heck, that might be too tough for some people, better just make nanos and gear not have any requirements at all, right? If you want to argue about having to rebuff when zoning, then fine, I'd support that, it's a bug and should be fixed. But you're not. Instead of being reasonable, you're just suggesting that everything is against engineers. Sorry, but at this point, I doubt anyone takes you seriously except for other engineers that are part of the circlejerk. You're the nerfest. Keep telling yourself that, the rest of us can only hope it actually becomes true so that you can see what you already had and either learn something or leave.

  14. #54
    Engis are infact pretty lucky that rebalance hasn't kicked in yet so they don't have to max ME along with nanoskills to cast and buff pets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vgman01 View Post
    With a kite team you generaly pay for your lvls. Imo this makes it ok..
    Quote Originally Posted by Vgman01 View Post
    Pocket teaming is fine to because (most of the time) players actualy step up and kill the hecklers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hvyshadows View Post
    OST is actually a good thing. In many Ely heck teams where there is a pocket the rest of the team sits around and chats every once in awhile.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by MassDebater View Post
    There's plenty of ways to make playing engineer less of a chore without increasing their power.

    Cast times, nano cost, credit cost, buff durations.


    I understand that it bothers you that your MP that you don't play on (and when you play on it, you don't pvp) is bad at pvp. But you have plenty of outlets to express your frustration elsewhere.
    With the minimal resources for allocation in funcom currently it'd be a disservice to the players to tweak things that are inconvenient but would function the same after modifications. The only change I could see here worth investing time into would be making pets last longer. Spending dev time to shorten nanocast timers, credit cost and all that other stuff is dev time taken away from other more pressing issues.

    It's taken years for them to get anything with the engine and NPE off the ground. Anymore time taken away from that is a no-no if the time gets invested into otherwise menial modifications that don't change gameplay.
    Leave "Marinegent" AScar - 220/23/65 Atrox Agent
    Wakeup "Marinesold" Screaming - 220/30/70 Nanomage Soldier
    "Moonmarin" - 220/30/80 Solitus Martial Artist
    "Marinekeep" - 215/18/4x Atrox Keeper
    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    to be fair, 2.8k ar is enough to perk anyone except fixers, mas, advs, shades, nt's that blinded you, shield mps, bow mps that landed dazzle, def docs, crats, or marinesold

    so all in all it's a fairly viable setup

  16. #56
    @essch

    You seem to have taken it far far beyond what was really said/meant.

    Engineers have complained that swapping to cast pets and buff is too much for years. Over time these complaints slowed to a trickle because because they all quit or played another profession (Ella played MP, Nick played crat, Salonter played enf, Grrl gave up his eng and went back to MA, Major made a crat)

    Now every time an engineer at any level, state of equipment or play style asked for a less tedious game play they were bombarded by people such as yourself whining about how engineer pets lasted forever compared to 30 minutes, then it was forever compared to two hours, then it was vendor purchasable vs raid drop, now it's "but it will cost more on gmi" (but engineer pet credit cost doesn't matter).

    You pat yourself on back when copy pasting the nano requirements for Widowmaker and Rihwen and look at them in isolation, then when shown that MPs receive 400+ more nanoskills you start screaming that you can't just compare two things in isolation because eng has blockers and NSD!

    Make your mind up.
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by MassDebater View Post
    You pat yourself on back when copy pasting the nano requirements for Widowmaker and Rihwen and look at them in isolation, then when shown that MPs receive 400+ more nanoskills you start screaming that you can't just compare two things in isolation because eng has blockers and NSD!

    Make your mind up.
    400+ is a pretty large number. Are you sure about that? I can see around 250 more from Mochams/Odin's. Heck, you even get more MC/TS from research than we do. And it's been shown that MPs can cast Rihwen without those buffs, so it looks like you're just not very good at this game. Sorry you had to find out like this

    EDIT: I bet you're getting the rest of the difference because I'm wearing full Alphas and you're using Implants for Eye/Right Hand. Eye symb gives 58 MC/TS, RHand symb gives 87 MC/TS, your implants don't give any of either. Which means this is a personal choice and not an issue with your profession.
    Last edited by Esssch; Apr 18th, 2013 at 08:34:33.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Eye symb gives 58 MC/TS, RHand symb gives 87 MC/TS, your implants don't give any of either. Which means this is a personal choice and not an issue with your profession.
    What a slap-in-the-face /thread move.

    3 pages of postings and essays blown into smithereens.
    Last edited by Metafizis; Apr 18th, 2013 at 08:55:37.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vgman01 View Post
    With a kite team you generaly pay for your lvls. Imo this makes it ok..
    Quote Originally Posted by Vgman01 View Post
    Pocket teaming is fine to because (most of the time) players actualy step up and kill the hecklers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hvyshadows View Post
    OST is actually a good thing. In many Ely heck teams where there is a pocket the rest of the team sits around and chats every once in awhile.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    400+ is a pretty large number. Are you sure about that? I can see around 250 more from Mochams/Odin's. Heck, you even get more MC/TS from research than we do. And it's been shown that MPs can cast Rihwen without those buffs, so it looks like you're just not very good at this game. Sorry you had to find out like this

    EDIT: I bet you're getting the rest of the difference because I'm wearing full Alphas and you're using Implants for Eye/Right Hand. Eye symb gives 58 MC/TS, RHand symb gives 87 MC/TS, your implants don't give any of either. Which means this is a personal choice and not an issue with your profession.

    Unfortunately engineer doesn't recieve 120 AS from research meaning we need to sacrifice nanoskills for AS.

    But I am happy for you to brag that a class that needs 2109 MC/TS to cast pets gets 250~ less MC/TS and no access to nano doctorate than a class that needed 2050~.
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by MassDebater View Post
    Here's a timeline:
    Crat and MP pets changed from 30 minutes to 2 hours - Engineer pets unchanged.
    Crat and MP pets change from 2 hours to permanent - Engineer pets unchanged.
    Crat and MP endgame pets changed from nodrop to yesdrop - Engineer pets unchanged.
    Let's make the Engi pets EVEN MORE yesdrop!

    Quote Originally Posted by MassDebater View Post
    Unfortunately engineer doesn't recieve 120 AS from research meaning we need to sacrifice nanoskills for AS.
    MPs are trash. Engis are overpowered.

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