Friday with Means - April 24th, 2009

[Kaylinne]

Yep. Just farming some good gear and learning to play.

Or easier solution, you can just reroll..... crat or NT for example

[Falkvinge]

wtb new renders and a new teaser of the new engine plox

[Hacre]

Or easier solution, you can just reroll..... crat or NT for example

If you think either of them are easier to PvP with, go and roll one.

[Kaylinne]

If you think either of them are easier to PvP with, go and roll one.

They are sure easy to farm for/with compared.

[Ebondevil]

They are sure easy to farm for/with compared.

Old saying seems to be appropriate here: 'The grass is always greener on the other side'

[Hacre]

Old saying seems to be appropriate here: 'The grass is always greener on the other side'

Hush Agent, everyone knows you're statistically the uberestestest PvP profession.

[Graftmage]

Or easier solution, you can just reroll..... crat or NT for example

stunprocs
triples

If anything, crats and fixers share their places on the profession pvp performance ladder.

[Hacre]

stunprocs
triples

If anything, crats and fixers share their places on the profession pvp performance ladder.

Largely depends on the opponent but yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Although a good Fixer should have an edge over a Crat, due to the extra healing and ease of snaring the crap out of pets.

A Fixer can heal quite a lot in 11s.

[Notcrattey]

shade love plzx

oh sorry what

[Kaylinne]

If anything, crats and fixers share their places on the profession pvp performance ladder.

I was not talking about performance but about sole effort/cash/time needed to PvM farm endgame equip for crat or NT versus fixer.

What did your NT cost you to be decent PvP toon Hacre?
And how hard is it to get PvM teams/solo stuff on your crat?

[Hacre]

What did your NT cost you to be decent PvP toon Hacre?

Lets see.

NT cost nothing, I farmed everything.

And how hard is it to get PvM teams/solo stuff on your crat?

Very, considering he's stripped

However, when it wasn't, it depended on the encounter and the set up I was using. Pistol Crats will get picked over Bow Crats for PvM due to lolstunnedboss bonus. Fixers should get 12 man teams just as easily as a Crat due to the fear resist/removal.

As far as cost goes, cost varies from toon to toon. Unfortunately, toons that rely on supple based armour (I noticed you didn't ask about the cost of the Crat, heh) cost more than toons that don't. Melee Adventurers can go the much cheaper CM route too and be good in PvP.

Cost is hardly something to whine about, given that you can get everything for free if you put in the time. FC didn't set the economy, the players did.

[Kaylinne]

NT cost nothing, I farmed everything.

I would sure consider my time and effort as some kind of cost, I didnt mean just credits.
If I spent 5 months of my free time crawling zergbots for points in example, I wouldnt consider I got that overpriced arty r arm for free. How much points/time some NT has to spend to get exterm r arm? And dont give me that "I have uber org" answer now, I am talking generally NT vs fixer, not you in particular.

However, when it wasn't, it depended on the encounter and the set up I was using. Pistol Crats will get picked over Bow Crats for PvM due to lolstunnedboss bonus. Fixers should get 12 man teams just as easily as a Crat due to the fear resist/removal.

But every crat has an option to go pistol until they farm whatever they want from PvM, no? I generally see crats picked from lft in a blink for whatever encounter really.
12 man? How about Alappa, Alba, DB instances, DB quests, APFs, all the LoX prequests and so on. You sure dont jump into 12 man to get all the phats you might need the instant you ding 220 now do you?

(I noticed you didn't ask about the cost of the Crat, heh)

I know crats is "more expensive" than NT but my point was about how easy/cheap is to farm endgame equip and I think crat could go in "easy" category.

Cost is hardly something to whine about, given that you can get everything for free if you put in the time. FC didn't set the economy, the players did.

Investing time != free. Maybe for you it is but I would say for lot of people it is not.

I never whined about anything, I merely pointed that from perspective of a NT/crat you are not competent to tell fixer "Just farm some good gear" because you do have it easy way there.
You need less time/cash/effort to get your toons PvP effective than fixers. It has nothing to do with whining or economy, just plain fact.
Equal effort involved should result in equal viability gear wise. What is simply not how it works here.

[Hacre]

I never whined about anything, I merely pointed that from perspective of a NT/crat you are not competent to tell fixer "Just farm some good gear" because you do have it easy way there.
You need less time/cash/effort to get your toons PvP effective than fixers. It has nothing to do with whining or economy, just plain fact.
Equal effort involved should result in equal viability gear wise. What is simply not how it works here.

Fixers can solo ground raids for their AI Bots.
Fixers can blitz 275 missions for stuff that sells to fund gear.
Fixers are in the same boat on zerg bots as Ranged Advies, Soldiers, Traders (another profession that struggles in PvM that easily costs as much as a Fixer, that you also complain about a lot) and Agents.
Yes Extermination symbs are "easier" to get, but that's largely due to the fact that the other professions that can use them, HAVE BETTER OPTIONS. Ask Enforcers how awesomesauce it is to be stuck with a single symbiant type. You wouldn't know, being a Fixer, who has access to awesome symbiants.
Also, lol @ "stay pistols until you have your stuff". So everytime something new in PvM comes out, Bow Crats should flip all their gear around and use IPRs to do that?

As for NTs, yes if I'd bought my scouts it would have been cheaper than a set of CSS and yes if I'd bought all my symbs it would have been cheaper overall than a mixed set of Arty and Support. So? For the same work into actual twinking, unless it's the lower AR ranged professions I still get the crap perked out of me, can you say the same, Fixer with more static def and more healing?

This "we are nerfest" is getting old. Fixers aren't as bad as you're all trying to make out. At all.

[Kaylinne]

Fixers can solo ground raids for their AI Bots.
Fixers can blitz 275 missions for stuff that sells to fund gear.
Fixers are in the same boat on zerg bots as Ranged Advies, Soldiers, Traders (another profession that struggles in PvM that easily costs as much as a Fixer, that you also complain about a lot) and Agents.

I was comparing effort versus result for Christ sake. How can you put soldiers and traders in the same boat with fixer, advies and agents in that context?

Everyone can solo ground raids nowdays, most profs lot faster than fixer.

Blitzing? I can blitz for ql 250 imps/clusters yeah. But you can calm your way through that same mission and open every damn chest there is without wasting your time on killing mobs with hp long as some peoples epeen.
Or you think about 10% bonus that requires me to spend enough IP to prevent me to maxing something else. For what? Blitzing implants that sell for 1-2 mil?
And you whine about IPRing pistol for crats once they are done with farming?
Dont make me laugh with RK missions blitzing please.

Also, lol @ "stay pistols until you have your stuff". So everytime something new in PvM comes out, Bow Crats should flip all their gear around and use IPRs to do that?

Fixers do that. They flip their gear/IPs for PvP.
So why should your crat be spared from it?

As for NTs, yes if I'd bought my scouts it would have been cheaper than a set of CSS and yes if I'd bought all my symbs it would have been cheaper overall than a mixed set of Arty and Support. So? For the same work into actual twinking, unless it's the lower AR ranged professions I still get the crap perked out of me, can you say the same, Fixer with more static def and more healing?

Want to compare the damage you can deal to all other profs with being perked by some of them?

This "we are nerfest" is getting old. Fixers aren't as bad as you're all trying to make out. At all.

The "I know everything about everything and everything is just the way I say" blindness from you about professions you dont even play is getting old too.
You stating that fixers are not bad at all just shows you have no single clue about them.

[Hacre]

I was comparing effort versus result for Christ sake. How can you put soldiers and traders in the same boat with fixer, advies and agents in that context?

Easily.

Blitzing? I can blitz for ql 250 imps/clusters yeah. But you can calm your way through that same mission and open every damn chest there is without wasting your time on killing mobs with hp long as some peoples epeen.
Or you think about 10% bonus that requires me to spend enough IP to prevent me to maxing something else. For what? Blitzing implants that sell for 1-2 mil?
And you whine about IPRing pistol for crats once they are done with farming?
Dont make me laugh with RK missions blitzing please.

Show me how to roll 275 missions with a Crat.

Fixers do that. They flip their gear/IPs for PvP.
So why should your crat be spared from it?

Fixers can swap between PvM and PvP a lot easier than Crats can. You don't change an entire weapon template.

Want to compare the damage you can deal to all other profs with being perked by some of them?

Absolutely.

The "I know everything about everything and everything is just the way I say" blindness from you about professions you dont even play is getting old too.
You stating that fixers are not bad at all just shows you have no single clue about them.

You stating that they are bad, speaks volumes.

[Kaylinne]

Sigh.
I could go on like this for ages, but you see just what you want to see. Besides I am not that big troll to hijack entire thread for arguing with you about things you obviously have no clue about and dont want to see anything but your side.

You are not really competent and more and more I read your posts I have the feeling its actually only malice on your side and nothing else.
My time is not worth it.

[styles999]

Altho i do not have a 220 crat or a 220 anything, I personally find that solo-ability pvm wise with crat is somehow easier based on playing with all the professions i have.
the stuns arent a deffinite thing and sometimes you have to kite, but with my ma i can pretty much tank, the fixer i have is ok but deffinitely not the uberest.

i havent tried pvp with the crat yet, but i will when i hit 150. i do not have a lolenfo just find they arent my style.

engi's are decent pvm if u can keep agg off of u, soldiers are usually the 2 sec killers, mp's are not my style either but from what ive seen its pretty much q /afk zzzzzzzzzz

just my opinion

[Reids]

to lolstunnedboss bonus.

i'll sue you for using my crats name! http://auno.org/ao/char.php?dimension=1&name=Lolstunned

[Xenotric]

Fixers can solo ground raids for their AI Bots.

We can? I must be doing something wrong... I just keep getting nuked into a small smoking crater...

[Kaylinne]

We can?

Obviously, since he says so.