New Shade Nano Changes!

[Kintaii]

Alright guys, here's the first-run draft of the proposed Shade Nano Document! Let's go over some of the highlights real quick:

• First and foremost, Shades will be given a nano which will place their target in nano recharge for six seconds. This nano may be used in both PvM and PvP, and cannot be spammed by the Shade.
• Runspeed & Conceal buff lines have been extended and given to lower levels.
• Shade Evade buffs placed into the same stacking lines as other evade buffs. In this Shades have gained a slight bit of evades in their own buffs.
• The Shade Evade buffs no longer buff Agility - This has instead been placed in it's own line, which buffs both Agility and Sense.
• Most Shade low-level buffs are now targeted, enabling the Shade to buff others.
• Shades have received two Sharp Object buffs.
• Shades now have an on-target Initiative buff which may be cast on themselves or others.
• The total amount of Martial Arts skill Shades receive through their buffing lines will now equal their Piercing skill buffs.
• Changes to Shade Procs: All Shade procs now have 100% chance of landing on their target. The procs now exist in two different lines:
• Proc Line A: Line A focuses on damage, with two proc nanos available. The first proc nano does damage to the target and heals the Shade for 50% of the damage dealt. The second proc nano damages both the HP and the NP of the target, as well as detaunting.
• Proc Line B: Line B focuses on debuffing, with two proc nanos available. The first proc nano does a full-evades debuff (Evade-Close, Nanoresist, Dodge and Duck). The second nano is an initiative debuff.
• One nano from each proc line may be active at a time (IE: One proc from line A, one proc from line B).
• Shades no longer have stun procs.
• Level locks below level 150 have been removed. This is a (mostly) global change which will be running throughout other documents/professions.
• Casting costs for all Shade nanos have been reduced significantly.
• In line with the solutions being worked on for both Keeper and Enforcer, we are currently looking into solutions to enable a Shade to keep up with their target in combat. More on this will be available as we are able to share information.

And that's the basics. Enjoy!

[SoapTarder]

"Shades no longer have stun procs."

no matter how nice the new A && b proc lines look, taking away the stun proc still feels like a kick in the stomach to what shades are in AO. they had it long before crats did, before people start comparing the two profs.

on a positive note, shades getting the ability to put their target in nano recharge for 6 seconds... i cannot wait to start using this on a certain prof.. heh heh heh (and no, I don't mean doctors).

[Molotoff]

[*]First and foremost, Shades will be given a nano which will place their target in nano recharge for six seconds. This nano may be used in both PvM and PvP, and cannot be spammed by the Shade.

6 seconds of no casting for a pure caster is an eternity.

[*]Runspeed & Conceal buff lines have been extended and given to lower levels.

Nice.

[*]Most Shade low-level buffs are now targeted, enabling the Shade to buff others.

I hate you.

[*]Shades have received two Sharp Object buffs.

Nice.

[*]The total amount of Martial Arts skill Shades receive through their buffing lines will now equal their Piercing skill buffs.

Will shade MA template be looked at ?

[SoapTarder]

First and foremost, Shades will be given a nano which will place their target in nano recharge for six seconds. This nano may be used in both PvM and PvP, and cannot be spammed by the Shade.

Question: if a target is already in the middle of casting a nano (since most are instacast, this applies to a midsized list of nanos) will Silience interrupt the targetted caster and put target into 6 second recharge, or will current nano being cast still follow through overlapping the 6 second "silent period?"

[brbcoffee]

Brought this up in Graftmage's thread, but I'll drop it here too. I'm not at endgame yet so just an uninformed observation:

With the changes, shades will require around 700 NCU for their self buffs. Currently it sits at about 450. Granted you might not need to slap everything on, but it's a pretty big difference.

I could be missing something though.

[RedWatr]

new lovechild alert.

[Ciex]

And where is all this damage that is required to OD support professions hidden?

[Molotoff]

And where is all this damage that is required to OD support professions hidden?

Might be MA / SO.

[Otinsainpas]

And where is all this damage that is required to OD support professions hidden?

i was wondering the same.. and were some shades asking 500 more AR?.

there is some static dd in a-proc line, i hope they add enough

edit: nope.. not enough to compete with crats or engis in RK.

[MachSchau]

Only thing I dislike is that shades are losing 50 agility and the add damage. But I am content with these changes.

With keeper and shades being the SL professions that have revolved around parry and riposte (in the form of buffs and more specifically with weapons for shades) I would like to see riposte added to the multi-wield buff line. If those two attacks are going to be fixed than shades should also have support for them. Yes, I know shades never had buffing support for riposte but now is the time to ask for it while its still in the proposed changes.

Sad to see shade stun procs go though. Would have rather seen them stay and when the stun lands the person than has a stun immunity so they dont get chain stunned. But I think I like these changes more, really addresses shade lack of AR on all levels and the randomness of the debuffing procs. I look forward to the new proc lines.

The lowered requirements on the endgame procs are fantastic! With the top shade stun proc the requirements are pretty high and requires multiple hotswapping. I imagine the same will happen with keepers.

[MachSchau]

i was wondering the same.. and were some shades asking 500 more AR?.

there is some static dd in a-proc line, i hope they add enough

I think (at endgame) debuffing the targets evades for 200 points for 100% is a pretty significant increase in AR.

[Veebz]

Most of these changes look to be incredible boosts to the viability of Shades. Couple comments here:

- The new "silence" type nano is great in concept, but I worry that a 6 second duration will be very overpowering. I've not read other profession nano documents in great detail yet, so possible problems from this nano might be avoided already. The idea is great, but please tread cautiously and be conservative in numbers when balancing this nano.

- Glad to see the removal of stun procs. Allows all other procs to become much more reliable, and much easier to balance. The damage / health + nano hit procs can become converted to a flat rate amount of damage per unit time. Also, the inits can be more easily balanced to be fair versus various professions. Vindication is sweet.

- Would have preferred sharp objects being tacked onto other buffs, as Shades don't have a ton of extra NCU available after self buffing without exceptional CL twinking. However, the inclusion of these buffs won't be a nerf for Shades, since we can mostly perform fine without sharp objects items. The NCU requirements will be a necessary sacrifice for any Shades looking to do that much more damage.

- Not super worried about the trade in agility for sense. In fact, this will help a lot of lowbie leveling Shades get spirits and armor like predator on. The ability to grant low level buffs doesn't make sense from a roleplay perspective, but it will be nice for Shades to be able to support low level friends in a fashion other than killing mobs.

- The initiative buff sounds odd in practice and from a roleplay. This one might be rough on NCU requirements as well, but I won't complain about its use towards helping teammates and low level friends. As a self buff, it sounds unnecessary considering a viral compiler solves most of our casting speed needs. Melee initiative isn't that painful for us to take advantage of right now, either.

- Shades are the one and only profession I believe should have level locks on all of their nanos. The removal of these pre-150 might be a bit much. Low level Shades have the potential of becoming quite powerful if given a few concessions. This would be one of them. We'll see how this pans out with perk changes.

- I find no problems with the last two points.

________________________________________________

Bottom line: Overall great changes

Two primary concerns: NCU limits - some Shades might be hard pressed to fully buff before running out of NCU

The new "silence" nano. It might be overpowered.

Stun proc removal

[Firezus]

With the new concealment buffs the shade will now be allowed to use sneak attack efficiently in s10.
With the init debuff proc it seems that shade will play a significant role in teams

[iolanda]

Question with the heal proc , i personaly dont like the idea since its the same old 10 year shade crap give something to gain something in return but w/e .
My main issue is reflect curently the proc from what i understand will heal us for 50% but what happens when we meet people that have reflect i mean engis will have 30% what about soldiers with 80% will we still get healed for 50% of the proc because that will be pretty ****ty . I can live with the fact that i heal "if i hit" and "if" im rooted i just /disco since roots will be changed i guess , but dealing with reflect also i dont .

[MachSchau]

At endgame the shade will need at least 707 ncu to use most of its buffs listed in the document.

FTS ncu requirements needs to be lowered by about 210 points.

[MachSchau]

Question with the heal proc , i personaly dont like the idea since its the same old 10 year shade crap give something to gain something in return but w/e .
My main issue is reflect curently the proc from what i understand will heal us for 50% but what happens when we meet people that have reflect i mean engis will have 30% what about soldiers with 80% will we still get healed for 50% of the proc because that will be pretty ****ty . I can live with the fact that i heal "if i hit" and "if" im rooted i just /disco since roots will be changed i guess , but dealing with reflect also i dont .

The way I interpreted it was, if you do 1000 damage to the target, you will get healed for 500 damage.

[NoGoal]

It's not a %, it's a fixed amount. PvP or reflects won't affect the value.

[iolanda]

Help me understand something about the heal proc please , how exactly is it planned to work , will it proc when i press "q" just like remod is , will it proc when i land hits and just when i land hits or will it proc if the target is next to me and i got to swing my wepon aka hit or miss just swing it ?

[lainbr]

Now lowbies shades will not feel so gimp. And we know who will init debuff in raids.

P.s.: I luv the changes.

[NoGoal]

Help me understand something about the heal proc please , how exactly is it planned to work , will it proc when i press "q" just like remod is , will it proc when i land hits and just when i land hits or will it proc if the target is next to me and i got to swing my wepon aka hit or miss just swing it ?

Should be like your current procs, but 100% chance to, proc on any hit or weapon special but not on miss (afaik).