Clarification of tower meeping changes

[Sateenkaari]

Actually, I find it funny. Again, omni doesn't have all the TL7 sites, so omni starts to do grief wars (the very same that clans did, atleast on RK2, pre-merge). Omnis are getting warnings of harassment and clans were able to do it without risk. Starts forum crying from pretty much both sides (Yes, Neutral isn't side) and clanners asking for more advantages (not just the reality of omnis lacking in numbers and having a lot of pvmers who don't care about towers).
It seems to go this way everytime.

[Flyingengi]

Actually, I find it funny. Again, omni doesn't have all the TL7 sites, so omni starts to do grief wars (the very same that clans did, atleast on RK2, pre-merge). Omnis are getting warnings of harassment and clans were able to do it without risk. Starts forum crying from pretty much both sides (Yes, Neutral isn't side) and clanners asking for more advantages (not just the reality of omnis lacking in numbers and having a lot of pvmers who don't care about towers).
It seems to go this way everytime.

RK1 clans did it too.

[Utopian]

Because you're not doing any fighting. You just Q a tower to draw defenders there, and you do it ALL OVER RK, over and over and over with absolutely no intention of taking the base down or doing any fighting. That is called harassement and you will get petitioned for it.
Also, I don't quite get the fixers that jump to defend their tool here. A meeping tower or longer cast time for the team meep in tower gas will NOT nerf fixers whatsoever. You still have the option to insta meep yourself, you can still do PvM without a stress and you can use this tool to evac your team mates from anywhere. Meeping people from a tower war to avoid fighting, and doing this repeatedly is harassement, get over it, stop doing it and grow some balls for a change or build proper tower twinks that can actually put up a fight. Or, better yet, roll more 207s or 201s or 214s, since it's obvious you need the absolute maxximum advantage over an opponent to take him down.
PS: this post is directed exclusively to the people that think meeping an entire raidforce from a tower site is "war tactic".

It is a war tactic. Check your history books. Hit and run tactics have been used since the dawn of ages.

And this is so laughable because it has been used by both sides and you seem to imply it as an "omni" tactic. And your org has done this as well - some creating it to an art form.

And even more hilarious is your attitude of tower syncing (to avoid being attacked by no-lifers as I recall).

Why don't you grow some of those round things and go kill the toons. I guess it's just easier to petition to get people banned.

[Gatester]

Seriously? The #1 mechanic in the game. Damage. Bypassing the damage by using a toon outside of the team and above the level of the content IS abusing a mechanic.

I just wanted you to clarify which part you meant and I can kind of see this being an abuse of a mechanic. It is not that the tank is AOE taunting a lot of grey mobs and holding aggro on them, it is that the tank is outside the team while holding the aggro which is the problem. So yes, this is a problem.

I like how in SWTOR the first person to damage a mob has full XP and lootrights on it, imagine the same thing applying in AO? A 220 could not run up and OD your level 100 who is killing an SL dyna. AOE tanks would no longer be able to pull the mobs for players without being in the team itself. Combined with the removal of XP for someone out of range killing the mob we could prevent a lowbie from aggroing a mob and simply having it killed by a 220 as well.

[Gatester]

It is a war tactic.

Last time I checked, AO is a video game...

[blindio]

Last time I checked, AO is a video game...

a videogame with pvp component that some players call tower wars fairly accurately to me, its probably more accurate to call each tower site attack/defense a skirmish especially with numbers we have now but its part of an ongoing albeit articially created conflict

[Contra]

It is a war tactic. Check your history books. Hit and run tactics have been used since the dawn of ages.

And this is so laughable because it has been used by both sides and you seem to imply it as an "omni" tactic. And your org has done this as well - some creating it to an art form.

And even more hilarious is your attitude of tower syncing (to avoid being attacked by no-lifers as I recall).

Why don't you grow some of those round things and go kill the toons. I guess it's just easier to petition to get people banned.

It's not "war tactic", it's abusing game mechanics so you can harass orgs. Hit and run is something, meeping to avoid the fight is something else entirely. Outrunning an opponent or running out of gas to save your butt is "war tactic", meeping an entire raidforce so you can do the exact same harassement to some other org is not.
Not once did I imply it's somehow omni related. Everyone, regardless of side, that does this "tactic" is a douche bag, period, and I seriously doubt you ever caught a member of Quetz meeping from a tower site to avoid fighting. We are a 100% PvP org, we like wars, we like fighting better opponents, why would we meep like cowards?

Tower syncing is a necessity in order to provide fairness to the wars. It is not fair when people take down your tower sites when there's nobody online to defend, right? This is why EVERYONE(no matter what side) does it. Not to prevent anyone from taking down the site, but to prevent them from getting it for free, without putting up a fight! Get it now, or should I draw you a schematic?
My tower twinks are very well built, thank you, and I'd love to face my opponents, even outnumbered, instead of going there to defend and seeing 15 people meep the second I get in range of their maps!
PS: Can you PM me the name of the Quetz member that meeped from a site without actually killing any towers?

Last time I checked, AO is a video game...

And people will always find something in real life as an argument against a discussion based on a game. Remember how people compared RL sniper rifles with in-game ones, or RL soldiers and assault rifles with game ones, or how about economy, currency, rare stuff....the list can go on.

[cheopis]

It is a war tactic. Check your history books. Hit and run tactics have been used since the dawn of ages.

And this is so laughable because it has been used by both sides and you seem to imply it as an "omni" tactic. And your org has done this as well - some creating it to an art form.

And even more hilarious is your attitude of tower syncing (to avoid being attacked by no-lifers as I recall).

Why don't you grow some of those round things and go kill the toons. I guess it's just easier to petition to get people banned.

Killing scouts is also a war tactic. Which is not possible in AO tower fields if the fixer isn't a complete idiot. Red Dot? Meep! Done.

Sorry, you're comparing bottlecaps to elephant turds again. Unrestricted meeping has absolutely no relationship at all to any "real world" tactics. Some sort of restricted meeping might de-stupid the tower pvp meeping problem a bit though. So people would stop coming to these forums and whining about it, or bothering the support team with ban requests.

[Utopian]

Last time I checked, AO is a video game...

Why yes it is. I was responding to a prior e-mail, as I am sure you can tell and was pointing out that it used in that capacity.

[Utopian]

It's not "war tactic", it's abusing game mechanics so you can harass orgs. Hit and run is something, meeping to avoid the fight is something else entirely. Outrunning an opponent or running out of gas to save your butt is "war tactic", meeping an entire raidforce so you can do the exact same harassement to some other org is not.
Not once did I imply it's somehow omni related. Everyone, regardless of side, that does this "tactic" is a douche bag, period, and I seriously doubt you ever caught a member of Quetz meeping from a tower site to avoid fighting. We are a 100% PvP org, we like wars, we like fighting better opponents, why would we meep like cowards?

Tower syncing is a necessity in order to provide fairness to the wars. It is not fair when people take down your tower sites when there's nobody online to defend, right? This is why EVERYONE(no matter what side) does it. Not to prevent anyone from taking down the site, but to prevent them from getting it for free, without putting up a fight! Get it now, or should I draw you a schematic?
My tower twinks are very well built, thank you, and I'd love to face my opponents, even outnumbered, instead of going there to defend and seeing 15 people meep the second I get in range of their maps!
PS: Can you PM me the name of the Quetz member that meeped from a site without actually killing any towers?

And people will always find something in real life as an argument against a discussion based on a game. Remember how people compared RL sniper rifles with in-game ones, or RL soldiers and assault rifles with game ones, or how about economy, currency, rare stuff....the list can go on.

So you agree that tower syncing is done to avoid others from having the oppurtunity to attack towers. Tower syncing is not necessary - it is a choice that you and others do to avoid allowing people not in your time zones to participate. This is actually a bigger abuse of mechanic than meeping because it stops people from being able to participate in a game they pay for too (imho).

As for the comparison, you stated its not a war tactic. I merely pointed out that it is - in RL or in this game as many have pointed out. You chose not to care for it - fine - but that doesnt invalidate other's opinions.

As for Quetz meeping....really?

[Utopian]

Killing scouts is also a war tactic. Which is not possible in AO tower fields if the fixer isn't a complete idiot. Red Dot? Meep! Done.

Sorry, you're comparing bottlecaps to elephant turds again. Unrestricted meeping has absolutely no relationship at all to any "real world" tactics. Some sort of restricted meeping might de-stupid the tower pvp meeping problem a bit though. So people would stop coming to these forums and whining about it, or bothering the support team with ban requests.

Then lets change all of the tool sets of profs or make towers to make those tool sets less effective.

Fear Tower
Root Tower
AS Tower

Maybe this is a solution and each side can plant so that neither has the advantage.

But what I find most interesting now.
Clan has held all 200+ sites since merge (I think omni got a couple for a day or so) - so how has this really effected the game or the clan side having the sites and benefits?

If a meeper leaves - you won - your field is safe.

[Lazy]

you forgot MR tower and Blockers tower


EDIT: also, are we still allowed to make cute org names before hitting a field to have a message sent to everyone ingame?

[cheopis]

Then lets change all of the tool sets of profs or make towers to make those tool sets less effective.

Fear Tower
Root Tower
AS Tower

Maybe this is a solution and each side can plant so that neither has the advantage.

But what I find most interesting now.
Clan has held all 200+ sites since merge (I think omni got a couple for a day or so) - so how has this really effected the game or the clan side having the sites and benefits?

If a meeper leaves - you won - your field is safe.

How about we just fix what's broken instead of pretending there are other problems that are in some way equivalent?

PVP is about risk AND reward. Stop trying to maintain a risk-free system for fixers. It's absurd and offensive to those of us who don't think it's appropriate for anyone to be untouchable in pvp.

[Lazy]

How about we just fix what's broken instead of pretending there are other problems that are in some way equivalent?

good idea. glad you feel that way. looks like we can leave meep alone then, as there's nothing wrong with it

PVP is about risk AND reward.

tell that to atrox enfos and nbs + triple+ nanofeast nt's and sd perked atrox shades and... well ... need i go on? ao pvp is chock-full of high reward 0 risk tools. if you want to "fix" one you should probably fix all the others as well.

Stop trying to maintain a risk-free system for fixers. It's absurd and offensive to those of us who don't think it's appropriate for anyone to be untouchable in pvp.

the issue isn't fixers wanting to be untouchable. the people QQing in this thread haven't figured out how to disable fixers that are meeping (HINT: it's not by crying on the forums for nerfs)

[Utopian]

How about we just fix what's broken instead of pretending there are other problems that are in some way equivalent?

PVP is about risk AND reward. Stop trying to maintain a risk-free system for fixers. It's absurd and offensive to those of us who don't think it's appropriate for anyone to be untouchable in pvp.

So - then you to support removing syncing of tower sites...since, ya know its risk AND reward?

Do you see the irony in your statement?

[Gatester]

If a meeper leaves - you won - your field is safe.

It's not safe, and for several hours that fixer will come back to harass you. Fixers do not need to meep out of every tower fight, they are more than capable of PVPing just like the rest of the professions in AO.

If you initiate a PVP event, players who arrive at the event you initiated through your attack should be able to engage in PVP content. If you are starting a PVP event with no intentions of actually PVPing then you are wasting players' time. If you do this repeatedly you are harassing those players. It's not just about meeping either, anyone can grief tower sites without actually PVPing against the defenders, the problem is that fixers are almost impossible to stop. I am sure there are a lot of non-sense ways people would suggest that hardly ever actually work themselves, but be honest and just admit it is incredibly easy to simply meep away.


I'm going to give a general example, not directed toward any particular player.

I could go around and look for players raiding boss mobs, knowing I could not outdamage them on those mobs, and instead use my toolset so the mob constantly heals until they give up and leave. I could try to take the mob normally but I know I would simply lose so I cause the encounter to start over again. I am not breaking any rules here, I am using my toolset in a PVE environment so that I may have an advantage because I am not capable or willing to acquire the numbers to win against the other group. I have no intention of actually trying to compete against the other group, so they either have to waste hours of their time until I am no longer interested in killing that mob or leave and let me have it.

I could go around and look for tower sites, knowing I could not destroy the site, and instead use my toolset to force that tower site to constantly be "active" until the defenders give up. I could try to take the site normally but I know I would simply lose so I cause the encounter to start over again. I am not breaking any rules here, I am using my toolset in a PVP environment so that I may have an advantage because I am not capable or willing to acquire the numbers to win against the other group. I have no intention of actually trying to compete against the other group, so they either have to waste ours of their time until I am no longer interested in attacking that site or leave and let me destroy it.


Hm, I guess as long as you aren't breaking any rules you really should be allowed to just do whatever you want, and having your time disrupted by other players is simply a risk you take in playing this game.

[Contra]

So you agree that tower syncing is done to avoid others from having the oppurtunity to attack towers. Tower syncing is not necessary - it is a choice that you and others do to avoid allowing people not in your time zones to participate. This is actually a bigger abuse of mechanic than meeping because it stops people from being able to participate in a game they pay for too (imho).

As for the comparison, you stated its not a war tactic. I merely pointed out that it is - in RL or in this game as many have pointed out. You chose not to care for it - fine - but that doesnt invalidate other's opinions.

As for Quetz meeping....really?

No, I don't agree. Tower syncing is done to avoid others getting the site FOR FREE. My org got the tower sites by earning them, actually fighting other players for it. I want our opponents to do the same thing, if they want my sites. Not by DDing towers that barely defend themselves for 2 hours so they can say: "yey hy I got towers I OP PvPer yo! ph3aR!!1" when all the defenders are sleeping. And the good thing is that the opposing side does the EXACT SAME thing for the EXACT SAME reason. That way, real tower wars occur. Real fighting. Real PvP.
As for Quetz meeping, really! Name me a single member of my organization that ever attacked a tower site and then meeped as soon as defenders arrived. My org members are PvP fanatics, they collect thousands of hate tells, they spend months thinking of amazing setups and working on them, they are the people you see dueling 24/7 in Borealis. I won't believe for a second that one of my org members actually avoided a tower war fight, and with meep haha! If you want me to believe, then you better prove it, cause there's no way in hell I'm gonna believe that just cause you say it.

Then lets change all of the tool sets of profs or make towers to make those tool sets less effective.
Fear Tower
Root Tower
AS Tower
If a meeper leaves - you won - your field is safe.

Neither fear, root nor AS are tools used for AVOIDING fights. That's quite the opposite.
If a meeper leaves, I don't win, I lose. I lose time. Yes, the very little time between job/gf/friends/other activities that I actually spend online, I'm forced to deal with people who make me lose that time for nothing. There is a certain group of players from a certain org I won't name, but it starts with "Artificers" and it ends with "of the Universe", that did this when Quetzalcoatl owned DAV9. They attacked our towers to get the global message and only did very few damage so the "Your tower in bla bla is at 75%...etc etc" message was displayed and then waited for defenders. The second my org saw the global message, several people logged their twinks, buffed them up and zoned to the tower site only to see a group of 4-5 people meeping in an instant. "They meeped, lol. We're safe."-my org mates said. But nooooooo, the same team came back over and over repeating the same procedure. None of the towers was actually destroyed. None! And my org mates, out of reflex, logged their twinks every time, wasting valuable time for nothing. They repeated this "war tactic" over 60 times(I stopped counting after the 60th meep). Now, as I assume you're an intelligent human being, I'm asking you: if this wasn't harassement, then what was it?

good idea. glad you feel that way. looks like we can leave meep alone then, as there's nothing wrong with it
the issue isn't fixers wanting to be untouchable. the people QQing in this thread haven't figured out how to disable fixers that are meeping (HINT: it's not by crying on the forums for nerfs)

There is nothing wrong with the meep mechanic. It works great. But it's also used for harassing other players, and it's getting worse by the day.
Nobody is asking for it's removal, but for a fair change in it's mechanics. Like making the cast time 20s if you're in pvp gas. That would not change it's functionality one bit, it's still the same meep mechanic, only adjusted to prevent losers from exploiting it to harass others.
We know how to stop the fixers, by the way, but actually stopping them is close to impossible. They meep as soon as they see a red dot on the map. You see the red dot before the target is actually in your character's view distance, and you meep.

[wonderland]

risk AND reward.

Oh look, those three words that have been completely bastardized by people who have no idea what it means again.

[Toyhazard]

Tower syncing is a necessity in order to provide fairness to the wars. It is not fair when people take down your tower sites when there's nobody online to defend, right? This is why EVERYONE(no matter what side) does it. Not to prevent anyone from taking down the site, but to prevent them from getting it for free, without putting up a fight! Get it now, or should I draw you a schematic?

I cant believe you are so dense, syncing towers is a necessity in order to provide fairness to the wars. Thats some serious crap right there. Putting every single tl 7 field in the same few hours is so fair that it locks out a decently sized portion of the playerbase from pretty much ever being able to attack or defend tl 7 towers. Please explain to me how this is fair.

And fyi this is a MMO, theres always people online to defend or attack towers, the game doesnt stop when you log out. You guys act like theres not a single person on your side playing when you log off and the other side can just kill everything because well, theres 0 clans on anyway. What makes you say that the clans who play during non gmt evening hours arent gonna put up a fight if towers get attacked?

Edit: And tower syncing isnt done to avoid giving the other side fields for free. Its because your trying to minimize the opportunity/time for people to attack sites and trying to avoid any tower action from happening altogether.

[Lazy]

I cant believe you are so dense, syncing towers is a necessity in order to provide fairness to the wars. Thats some serious crap right there. Putting every single tl 7 field in the same few hours is so fair that it locks out a decently sized portion of the playerbase from pretty much ever being able to attack or defend tl 7 towers. Please explain to me how this is fair.

And fyi this is a MMO, theres always people online to defend or attack towers, the game doesnt stop when you log out. You guys act like theres not a single person on your side playing when you log off and the other side can just kill everything because well, theres 0 clans on anyway. What makes you say that the clans who play during non gmt evening hours arent gonna put up a fight if towers get attacked?

Edit: And tower syncing isnt done to avoid giving the other side fields for free. Its because your trying to minimize the opportunity/time for people to attack sites and trying to avoid any tower action from happening altogether.

i did tl7 tower wars at 5am gmt once. it was me and literally 3 other dudes (one duallogged) dropping a 200 field because no one showed up to defend it. are you seriously suggesting we should let tl7 fields be hot at a time when no one would show up to defend? if you want to solo towerfields that much make a tl-3 enf. all those fields are hot at retarded times cuz no one bothers with them.

incase you haven't noticed ao's been hemorrhaging players for a while now. even euro primetime is pretty dead compared to how it used to be.


EDIT: more on topic:

griefing is a vital part of the tower metagame. last time omnis took towers they would grief for the 2 months beforehand every day to break the skinner's box response most pvpers had of tower message = log pvp toon = get pvp action. once people saw that log pvp toon = wasted time they wouldn't bother showing up until one day omnis brought out a raidforce and jsut rolled through the entire game map over the course of 2 days. without the initial 2 months of griefing they'd have never been able to outnumber the initial defenders enough to build momentum through victory messages.