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Thread: Engineer perks overview

  1. #1

    Engineer perks overview

    After some discussion regarding "tradeskill weapon" I decided to look once again at our perks to re-check what we have there... Checked that we don't have that already and decided to make short overview. I'm aware that we can look it up at auno/aomainframe, but another wall of text will never hurt

    SL perks.
    Demolitions (10)
    Mechanic (10)
    Gadgeteer (10)

    Alchemist (6)
    Tinkerer (4)
    Pistol mastery (8/10)
    Shotgun mastery(10)
    Power up(8/10)
    Bio shielding(10)

    AI perks
    Creative mind(10)
    Illogical patterns (8)
    Unknown factor(8)
    Counterweight(3/6)

    Ok, here we go:

    SL Perks

    Demolitions:
    10 perks, +200 grenade
    DD and nano drain actions.
    Problems with perkline: perks take too much time to execute, leaving us w/o chance for using heals/cocoon/stims/grafts. Also long time from start of perk till damage/nanodrain done often leads to us perking dead body.
    Useful for: Grenade engineers for more AR and PvPers for actions. Remark - most PvPers don't use grenade weapons, grenade AR do not used in any other way by them.
    Notice: Demo perks doesn't require you to wield grenade weapons, can be used with other weapons in hands.

    Mechanic:
    10 perks, +80 ME/EE/QFT, +130 WS, +64 MC/TS
    pet heal and deconstruction actions.
    Problems with perkline: Deconstruction perk action is practically useless due to role ACs have in current state of game. Also Deconstruction perk don't have recharge timer on failure.
    Useful for: Soloing, where pet heal is handy, Casting hard-to-cast nanos (while leveling or 17.7 stuff), Tradeskilling.

    Gadgeteer:
    10 perks, +55 ME/EE/QFT, +70 WS, +30 MC/TS
    4 pet-boost actions
    Stats-wise it's underpowered brother of Mechanic line while action-wide it have broken/non-effective actions. Really need update.
    Problems with perkline:
    1. Taunt box perk doesn't work (judging by auno it taunts pet toward engineer instead of taunting mobs toward pet: tauntbox effect, agg trimmer, our blind that have taunt
    2. Siphon box perk have too low effect both for it's drain and it's heal part. (need to test if it's also affected by ACs, then it's total crap)
    3. Chaotic Energy proc have buggy check for removal of space nano in no beef nanos running (if I got it right it leads to either never working or always working)
    4. Chaotic energy have too low chance to land/cancel nanos w/o notum overflow/accelerated decaying quarks and also no chance of mp/nt perking some1 with it due to practical useless of said perks (accelerate decaying quarks also requiring previous chain of perks from engi and mp/nt)
    Useful for:
    Soloing as 3rd 10-perk perkline for pet healing (goes after bio and mechanic), tradeskill slaves perked for max tradeskills.


    Alchemist:
    6 perks, +200 Chem/Pharmatech
    Blind perk with easy defence check at 2, DoT removal at 6, weak dots at 1 and 4
    Shared with docs and traders
    Problems with perkline:
    DoT actions have too weak damage to be of any use.
    Useful for:
    AI armor Tradeskillers and PvPers with IP spent in chemistry.

    Tinkerer:
    4 perks, +65 ME/EE/QFT
    Sabotage Quark Field and Ignition Flare actions
    Shared with traders
    Problems with perkline:
    Perks have 100% ME vs 25/35% Duck check and are easy to land + have relatively good damage, but require other professions to use their perks first. Result - doesn't work.
    Useful for:
    Changed: tradeskill slaves ofc and PvPers for 2 low-damage but GUARANTEED hits (hits for 100-800ish every 30 seconds and 400-1500 every 1.5min in pvp).

    Pistol mastery:
    8/10 perks, +115 pistol, +13 fling, +33 damage
    Quick shot/Double shot DD actions, scaled with pistol AR.
    Shared with advs(10), crats(8), docs(5), MPs(5)
    Problems with perkline:
    Perks have relatively low damage template and hard to land in pvp with our AR (100% pistol vs 100% dodge)
    Useful for:
    Pistol engineers to get more AR and bit more +DD. DD maniacs as 3rd line to perk.

    Shotgun mastery:
    10 perks, +200 shotgun, +80 damage
    Leg shot/Easy shot actions
    Shared with traders
    Problems with perkline:
    Easy shot have bogus requirements/description that says it need perks from "Freak strength" line landed on target. (in case it's intended to be used with freak str nano - this perk will become unlandable, since 1 man can't get all 3 stun perks out on same target before first "affected by" nano expire)
    Useful for:
    Shotgun engies for AR/DD, DD maniacs for +DD, shotgun PvP engies for easy shot perk (decent damage and 5% duck check).

    Power up:
    8/10 perks, +115 RE, +36 damage
    Energize (+dd for 30 seconds/2 min) and 3 DD perks that require energize running, 1 of them with stun.
    Shared with Agent(5), Doctor(8), Soldier(10), Fixer(5), Trader(5)
    Problems with perkline: none spotted
    [B]Useful for:
    RE engies for AR/DD, DD maniacs for +DD/energize/perks, PvP engies for 20% stun chance in power shock vs non-evade profs. Power blast also have 15% chance to remove 1 protection and 1 healing nano from target up to 30 NCU (for 2k AR, it's scaled from 4 to 35 NCU with RE skill)
    Notice:
    Power up perks does not require you to wield RE-based weapons, can be used with any weapon in hands.

    Bio Shielding:
    10 perks, +80 damage shield, 890 ACs, 3% reflect
    Bio shield/cocoon/rejuvenation/regrowth actions
    Shared with Adventurer, Enforcer, Keeper
    Problems with perkline:
    Bio shielding 10 perk erroneously marked as perk action (no consequences tho)
    Bio rejuvenation perk action have 4 templates for heals and at least for advs it's possible to get 1450 from top heal while other profs get 880. According to reports - it's possible that it scaled with some skill. So far real mechanics are unknown.
    Bio Cocoon is absorb, and as all absorbs suffers from absorb overwrite (can be overwritten by meats from ToTW/IS, nanomage HUD, etc)
    Bio shield perk is useless due to uselessness of damage shields in it's current state.
    Bio regrowth have long execution time (5 seconds).
    Useful for:
    Must have for all but extreme team DD and tradeskill slave setups.

    AI Perks
    Creative mind:
    10 perks, +51 grenade, +100 ranged/nano init, +51 duck.
    Freak shield, Medallion, Optimize bot protocol actions
    Problems with perkline:
    Freak shield action with it's 4k ACs is useless.
    Medallion is not landable at tl7 pvp due to amounts of NR+AAD players currently have.
    Optimize bot protocol have very short duration (20 sec) with long lock-out (130 sec) to be really useful.
    Useful for:
    TL4-5 pvp and tl7 pvp on MR trox (AAD drain is good for more crits)

    Illogical patterns:
    8 perks, +160 me/ee/ws/qft/tut
    Guesstimate/memory scrabble perk actions
    Shared with Fixer, Trader
    Problems with perkline:
    Guesstimate is good snare/root/stun line, but you can't predict what will land and build your strategy on it (2 sec stun vs 40 sec root/snare). Can't land it in tl7 pvp (qft vs 100% NR). Root/snare have too high chance of breaking to use it in pvm.
    Memory scrabble does laughable damage.
    Useful for:
    Tradeskiller alts.

    The unknown factor:
    8 perks, +160 pt/np/psycho/chem
    hostile takeover/chaotic assumption perk actions (Int+Psy vs 100% NR)
    Shared with Fixer, Trader, agent, doctor, mp, nt
    Problems with perkline:
    Hostile takeover lowers random initiative, therefore there is low chance of lowering right type of it.
    Hostile takeover perk action don't have "on failure" lock time.
    Useful for:
    TL3-5 pvp, tl7 PvP for nanomages/troxes, Tradeskiller alts.

    Counterweight:
    3/6 perks, +40 multi melee/ranged
    full frontal perk action (100% t&s vs 100% NR)
    Shared with adventurer(6), enforcer(6), shade(6)
    Problems/bugs with perkline:
    Perkline have buggy profession requirements (twice mentioned adventurer, perks 4-6 have User Profession == 0 line instead of engineer.
    Only ranged init is lowered by full frontal despite "Your movement and initiatives have been lowered from a Full Frontal Special." description.
    Useful for:
    Soloing (Full frontal = unbreackable snare we will land on almost any mob), twinking better pistols.
    Last edited by kuznechik; Jun 26th, 2008 at 14:44:20.
    Kuznechik, Board member of Disciples of Omni-Tek (and few dozens of alts)
    DoOT is recruiting
    -------
    Well, as a well-known fact - I know nothing (especially about engineers).

  2. #2
    Ok, I consider it done for our prof/group perks and perk actions.
    Please comment if you see/know about some buggy/not working/somehow unusable perk/perk actions/wishes of changing some perks/getting access to some other perks.
    Tho I want you to keep in mind that unless it's a bug that need fixing there is no much hope for us getting more out of it.
    In case of bugs/ways of use - please explain details.
    In case of wishes - give some reasoning why it must be this way.

    I'd appreciate if you keep this thread flame/troll free and post only on topic. This will save me hassle of deleting off-topic posts.

    This is guide type thread, that's why I will clear it from off-topics.
    Please do not make troll/flame/offtopic posts, they will be deleted. Also please don't answer to such posts, since posts you're answering will be deleted soon(tm)
    Last edited by kuznechik; Jan 17th, 2008 at 15:50:54.
    Kuznechik, Board member of Disciples of Omni-Tek (and few dozens of alts)
    DoOT is recruiting
    -------
    Well, as a well-known fact - I know nothing (especially about engineers).

  3. #3
    I'd like to see Perk 9 and 10 giving to engies for pistol mastery.
    The demo perk timers lowered.
    The mech perk line have it's MC/TS reward doubled
    and the gad taunt perk fixed so that it actually taunts and does directed taunt for as much as mongo.

    *edit* removed an annoying bug from my statement.
    Last edited by Technogen; Jan 17th, 2008 at 14:08:40.

  4. #4
    Good overview, i think it should go to useful references as it could help other engis to decide where to invest precious perkpoints.

    From my point of view (as pistol engi) lack of possibility to get remaining 3 counterweight perks (its clearly bug) is bug which should be easy to correct if only someone would care in FC. I think more mr would be good for pistol engis and root perk would be nice addition to our limited possibilities in this area.
    Lack of pistol perks 9, 10 (this is probably intended) is funny, because there I am completely loosing consistency of logic of FC game designers: We have locked top ofab shotgun and no support of shotgun in LE research BUT we have complete line of shotgun perks! On the other hand we have ofab peregrine mk6, we have comlete LE research line for pistol and pistol specials from LE, but ve do not have complete perk pistol line. Does it have any sense at all? For me NOT. I think fixing of this flaw should not be any problem for FC people too.
    What is really shame is gadgeteer line with good potential for enhancemet of bot, but bugged taunt and dependant perks degrade it under par. Fixing of this will be harder, but I think that similar fixes (of the depending perks) were already made for perklines of other professions, so I believe it is doable.

    This changes are from my point of view the easiest and the least controversial to implement.
    Last edited by Philty; Jan 18th, 2008 at 09:02:01.
    Philty - main, engie, proud member of allmighty CzA
    Philtynurse - backup heal
    Philtysaurus - rising from the ashes

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by kuznechik View Post
    2. Siphon box perk have too low effect both for it's drain and it's heal part. (need to test if it's also affected by ACs, then it's total crap)
    This seems to land very rare, says in DB its 22%, seems more like 5-10% to me.
    No matter if it check against ACs, I have noticed it often do very low damage.
    (this is baded of 10 perks in that line)

    Quote Originally Posted by kuznechik View Post
    Pistol mastery:
    8/10 perks, +115 pistol, +13 fling, +33 damage
    Shared with advs(10), crats(8), docs(5), MPs(5)
    ...
    Power up:
    8/10 perks, +115 RE, +36 damage
    Shared with Agent(5), Doctor(8), Soldier(10), Fixer(5), Trader(5)
    I'd like to see Engineer be able to have 10 on booth of thoose.
    [size=-2]
    Engesis TL 7 Engineer
    Engisis LVL 150 MA
    Yours TL 5 Adventurer


    Petition to get QL 300 towers in game

  6. #6
    Someone correct me if i am wrong,but i remember bio rejuv scaling on first aid(after 1k it heals for 1450 for advys i think).
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    From one troll to another. Cut the crap, Blackie. Or just roll a MP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Escritores View Post
    And right there this thread turned emo...
    Boori:There is a difference between a "Soldier" and a "Walking Dreadloch-Modified Shark".
    best post ever
    forum mod <3

  7. #7
    I think that's wrong pala because I have enough firstaid to use the abl stuff but still heal for 880. But if I put +heal% stuff on it goes up.

  8. #8
    As far as I know only advies (or maybe enfos too, but definitely not us) get the bonus on bio rejuv.

    Off-topic: this is a guide-type thread so off-topic replies can be deleted by the profs if they think it is appropriate. If you don't like it, don't come to these forums. Please.
    Last edited by muha; Jan 17th, 2008 at 15:38:54.
    RK1:220/30 Alicia "Muhandes" Jolt General of Destiny. My setup/A quick screenshot
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    "Guides": 210 symbs before 170, 220 symbs before 180, NM Engi Twinking 205, 210, 215, 220.
    WTB ql150 weapons, Grand Armbands, Eye of the Evening Star.

  9. #9
    --== Self-Remvoed ==--
    Will repost a reply more focused on the discussion.
    Last edited by rubina1; Jan 17th, 2008 at 19:08:56.

  10. #10
    Anyway, one more comment on restricted high level perks of some group perklines: We have 3 limited lines and I told myself that it would be nice to see the overview how many perklines has each class locked to high level perks. I have quickly checked adventurer group perklines and the result was not any suprise for me :-))

    And here we go. There is short overview of locked perklines:

    engis - 3 - pistol mastery, power up, counterweight
    crats - 1 - pistol mastery
    MPs - 2 - blunt mastery, ranger
    Trader - 2 - nano doctorate, power up
    Soldier - 2 - infantry, shotgun mastery
    Shade - 0
    Adventurer - 0
    NT - 1 - ancient matrix
    MA - 0
    Keeper - 0
    Fixer -1 - power up
    Enforcer - 0
    Doc - 2 - pistol mastery, power up
    Agent - 3 - nano doctorate, power up, ranger (and yes they are limited in these lines a lot)

    Note.:correct me if i made any mistake there, as i did it very briefly...

    Such comparison is not ment to show FC love to certain professions, its not even ment as any cry that we are nerfed, it is just an argument showing that unlocking at least some of high perks at group perklines to engineers would not cause any big harm to game balance i think...
    Philty - main, engie, proud member of allmighty CzA
    Philtynurse - backup heal
    Philtysaurus - rising from the ashes

  11. #11
    There is 16 different Bio Rejuvenation in the database
    They are grouped in 4 different perk actions
    It seems like only Adventurers can upgrade their Bio Reju with a skill (unshure what yet):

    Code:
    		A	B	C	D
    Perk 7		250	350	425	570
    Perk 8		450	550	625	775
    Perk 9		650	750	850	1000
    Perk 10		880	1000	1125	1450
    Bio reju increases with +% healing gear as well.


    Regarding Bio regrowth, I wish it acted as a nano, insta cast. Or at least the absorb. Supposed to be life savers?
    Last edited by n3mesis; Jan 18th, 2008 at 01:51:16. Reason: corrected some
    [size=-2]
    Engesis TL 7 Engineer
    Engisis LVL 150 MA
    Yours TL 5 Adventurer


    Petition to get QL 300 towers in game

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by rubina1 View Post
    The fact of the matter was that my question was "on topic". I was asking how the ENG perk lines can be used with several different ENG play styles. I've already sent a complaint email to Funcom on this person's actions.
    Sorry if I offended you, but this thread was aimed at mostly high-level engineers.
    Regarding your post:
    1. Almost all builds of engineers past level 100 (except notum repulsor ones) can cast top bot.
    2. There are no clear "styles", there are builds (pistol engineers/grenade engineers/etc) and specialties(pvp, soloing, dd, tradeskilling, etc). Usefulness of perks/actions for them are described shortly in "useful for" part.
    3. Your post contained nothing from list of things I've asked to provide.

    P.S.: Rubina1, please enable PMs at your account, so I'll be able to explain reasoning for deletion of your posts/discuss it with you.

    (this temporary post will live here till Rubina1 enables receiving PMs, then I'll delete it)
    Last edited by kuznechik; Jan 17th, 2008 at 17:26:38.
    Kuznechik, Board member of Disciples of Omni-Tek (and few dozens of alts)
    DoOT is recruiting
    -------
    Well, as a well-known fact - I know nothing (especially about engineers).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by kuznechik View Post
    Useful for: Grenade engineers for more AR and PvPers for actions. Remark - PvPers don't use grenade weapons, grenade AR do not used in any other way by them.
    Speak for your self :P

    I personally find that Obliterator is better damage in pvp compaired to an AS gun for many reasons, the first being that I can keep my crit whore ++ setup, and not have to worry about capping AS on some rifle...

    1/1 + flingshot obliterator > 11 sec AS rifle

    Aimed shot is only useful when im fighting evade whores (crat, ma, advent, keeper) with 2000 AR + duck exp check, I can generally at least hit most other people, which is ofc a lot better damage then AS could ever hope to be...

    The sad thing is now soldiers seemed to be able to go godmode enough to have evades (wtf) such that demo and obliterator misses them quite often.. which was generally my main and really only target I could kill on battle station..

    Also: Note on the wish list, I gave new ideas / concepts for ways to improve grenade perk lines
    Grenadearchy Online
    Takun - Grenade Engineer [Equipt] - Crit Monster - Overlord of Mortar Kombat
    Grenades - Grenade Engineer [Equipt] - Leveling Monster - Advisor of Mortar Kombat

    Grenade Infos
    Pure DPS - [Setup] - 1701 Fling to cap Sloth - 1% crit is equal to ~28+ damage
    Agg/Def: 100% - 1440 Nano Init to insta cast Isotos - 150 Ranged Init to cap Sloth
    Agg/Def: 0% - 2640 Nano Init to insta cast Isotos - 1650 Ranged Init to cap Sloth

  14. #14
    afaik professionals don't have the permission to delete posts or lock threads, so stop parading your power
    main characters on RK1: Kingduck138 220 Engi Mongoose135 170 Agent Nnivekccub 165 Engi Kingduck135 170 Soldier Mongoose831 160 Agent Healdocheal 150 Doc Atroxshade 130 Shade Nanottwink 130 NT Mongoose144 125 Agent Ducktroxjr 117 Fixer Eternalguard 65 Enf Boringname 61 Fixer Kingduck139 60 Eng Atheist 60 MA Mongoose142 30 DocMongoose138 15 Agent Mongoose141 21 Agent

  15. #15
    And here i am , thinking we have estabilished that AS sucked for Takun because he didnt have right setup towards it. Ouch.

    Chance of having perklines changed doesnt leave any hope, it just wont be done, because it would open a Pandora's Box. So unless you have found bugs, scaling errors or any other kind of inconsistency somewhere , i dont see what you want to achieve, other then fixing Demo perks so they require to wield Grenade weapon. Basically you can just go to auno to see the same things, not counting your comments , with some of them being quite amusing (and idea to use medalion at tl7 with MR is just lol)

    In particular i'd stop with requests to open this or that weapon line until we estabilish ( i doubt it can happen tho as every single person i talk to wants somehing different) , what weapon line we want to use.

    No need really to go berserk with post deleting, not our fault there isnt anything worth discussing in this thread so we need to to off topics

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by KingDuck View Post
    afaik professionals don't have the permission to delete posts or lock threads, so stop parading your power
    He obviously has moderator abilities. Why would he be given them and not be allowed to use them.
    Because Race Yalm

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    And here i am , thinking we have estabilished that AS sucked for Takun because he didnt have right setup towards it. Ouch.
    And by right setup you mean I didnt have REC / CC / leo boots / Crep vest and masters bidding.. right? Right.
    Grenadearchy Online
    Takun - Grenade Engineer [Equipt] - Crit Monster - Overlord of Mortar Kombat
    Grenades - Grenade Engineer [Equipt] - Leveling Monster - Advisor of Mortar Kombat

    Grenade Infos
    Pure DPS - [Setup] - 1701 Fling to cap Sloth - 1% crit is equal to ~28+ damage
    Agg/Def: 100% - 1440 Nano Init to insta cast Isotos - 150 Ranged Init to cap Sloth
    Agg/Def: 0% - 2640 Nano Init to insta cast Isotos - 1650 Ranged Init to cap Sloth

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    (and idea to use medalion at tl7 with MR is just lol)
    Tell that to brainwash,he used it and I'm telling you,once aad goes into -,pets ignore evades and just keep critting.

    So...

    Yeah,definitely worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    From one troll to another. Cut the crap, Blackie. Or just roll a MP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Escritores View Post
    And right there this thread turned emo...
    Boori:There is a difference between a "Soldier" and a "Walking Dreadloch-Modified Shark".
    best post ever
    forum mod <3

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Palahere View Post
    Tell that to brainwash,he used it and I'm telling you,once aad goes into -,pets ignore evades and just keep critting.
    And once MR cooldown kicks in, your will kiss your target goodbye, so yeah, enjoy.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    And once MR cooldown kicks in, your will kiss your target goodbye, so yeah, enjoy.
    Not in a duel,which is where he used it.
    I don't know how duels vs engis work on RK 1,but on RK 2 i usually tank em.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    From one troll to another. Cut the crap, Blackie. Or just roll a MP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Escritores View Post
    And right there this thread turned emo...
    Boori:There is a difference between a "Soldier" and a "Walking Dreadloch-Modified Shark".
    best post ever
    forum mod <3

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