Quickie Explanation of New Trader NanoSheet (Summary Open to Criticism)

[Reids]

in before the emo army starts posting

NO i cant be possibly reading well 5k nano drain nuke with 4 sec cooldown lol what???

That didn't take long.

Epic epic win. Such selfpwn.

[Angler]

After thinking about it for 30 minutes: We completely loose the ability to solo PvM. Lowering Targets AAO was the only thing that kept us from getting killed. Reducing the drains to 15 seconds also in pvm renders us almost completely defenseless.

With AAO in pvm you mean this?

- The drains have been halved in amount drained, and do not drain the AAO of the target if it's not an NPC.

[Metafizis]

It's a sad state...

Traders were one of the only truly unique classes in all the MMO's i've played over many years... these changes are a tombstone on that profession from a practical perspective.



NOTE: if the people who actually do NOT HAVE TRADERS or DO NOT PVP ON THEM could leave these discussions to the active players instead of muddying the water with complaints and half-truths, it would be so appreciated by everyone involved. If you've not played a 220 PvP trader (and i don't mean logged your friends' once, i mean played for months and months to really perfect the character), then i'm sorry but your opinions are most likely half-truths and not realistic (note, this goes for all professions, not traders).

Q F T.

Might as well delete the proffesion and make 131 buffing totems.

Everything that was useful was shortned/nanocosted/removed and everything that was fine as it was got a useless long duration.

Try GTHing a NT after this, they will just /lol you to death..

Killing a doc will become a epic occurrence and a myth.

[Edta]

...
Trader becoming "givers"
...
Lvl locks?
...

- I'm somewhat dual-minded on traders losing most of their drawbacks to giving: I do understand that people don't like to have drawbacks, but I do like the current mechanism and agree that traders should be traders.
- As far as I see the level locks are only for the target: so if you drain a 220 he loses more skill then if you drain a 175. I don't think that is a bad thing and can't detect any level locks that would break twinking.

I do believe there is an error in the doc: it states 'target' for the positive side of the drain.

My opinion is that it generally looks good. What I would change is:
- somewhat longer roots in pvp so that they are worth at least something
- longer duration of drains in pvm

I don't know traders or the document well enough so I'm going to ask this. I got the impression low levels are OP and high levels are mediocre to gimp. You think these changes are so that there is a difference in love/nerfing between high and low levels to account for that?

[MajorOutage]

Every Team buff is changed to buff the targets team meaning you can target whomever and it'll buff his entire team not yours. If he is solo.. it'll buff just him.

Spamming a whole team's NCU when only one needs a buff is NOT helping.

[Obtena]

Try GTHing a NT after this, they will just /lol you to death...

And this is a GREAT example of what I'm talking about .... traders shouldn't need to rely on 'trick' nanos to kill anyone because that obvious makes them OPed by definition. BR, GTH, NBS, SS. Almost every nano released since AI is a bandaid fix to a bigger problem. It's about time FC undid the wrongs they made to the trader profession with these things.

Well..for once, I have to agree with obtena...I like the general idea behind the proposed changes. It's just a pity that once against the sheet proves that AO dev team have no clue about the mechanisms, timings and values involved in AO PvP :/.

Sure, if this was released into today's environment, I think traders would fail miserably. Fortunately, there will be a testing opportunity to give feedback on the details. For now, the concept is good enough with some placeholders. I personally think FC have a good grasp on the rhythm and timing of their new PVP environment they are making ... it's being applied rather uniformly to all the nano documents. We shouldn't think that Trader one would be any different.

[ArienSky]

- As far as I see the level locks are only for the target: so if you drain a 220 he loses more skill then if you drain a 175. I don't think that is a bad thing and can't detect any level locks that would break twinking.

*edit with Kintaii's answer*

Justin is correct - The debuff landed is what scales based on the target's level. The buff the Trader receives is not effected, nor is there a level lock on the nanocast itself.

*end edit*
If you are right, then good, but I read this:
Skill Drain Line A - Level check
Target Cast Deprive Skills (Weak) Target is level 1-10
Target Cast Deprive Skills (Minor) Target is level 11-20
Target Cast Deprive Skills (Average) Target is level 21-30
Target Cast Deprive Skills (Lesser) Target is level 31-40
Target Cast Deprive Skills Target is level 41-50
Target Cast Deprive Skills (Major) Target is level 51-60
Target Cast Deprive Skills (Advanced) Target is level 61-70
Target Cast Divest Skills (Weak) Target is level 71-80
Target Cast Divest Skills (Minor) Target is level 81-90
Target Cast Divest Skills (Average) Target is level 101-110
Target Cast Divest Skills (Lesser) Target is level 111-120
Target Cast Divest Skills Target is level 121-130
Target Cast Divest Skills (Lesser) Target is level 131-140
Target Cast Divest Skills (Advanced) Target is level 141-150
Target Cast Divest Skills (Nanite Enhanced) Target is level 151-209
Target Cast Divest Skills (Nanite Improved) Target is level 210+

As "The targeted monster's lvl governs how high a drain is cast"
a VERY interesting mechanic for twinking, where you have a 220 crat to help you drain a high lvl monster without dieing.. bot for the lvling Trader, in a normal team, it will be boringly predictable, casting the same nano every time..

I like laddering up the drains and the stress of having to kill again within 3 minutes..
We just need a voice saying:
Mo-mo-mo-MONSTER DRAIN drain.. drain...

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

PS... hmm actually that could be an idea..
Using sounds for nanos too?

why not a sound so everyone can hear the trader's tough work and follow the laddering?
Full auto, burst etc. all have sounds, maybe "Nanite improved divest" could be one too

Healing has all the sparkles, give trader drains sound please

[Trgeorge]

I personally think FC have a good grasp on the rhythm and timing of their new PVP environment they are making ... it's being applied rather uniformly to all the nano documents. We shouldn't think that Trader one would be any different.

You'll aware there's much more to this game than PvP, right? Changes to Engineers support their other roles ingame, our's don't.

And why shouldn't we think our docs would be any different? I can't claim for Genele, but Means sure think we're OP. I never asked him what lvl trader pwned him, but let's be honest, after level 175, we start to feel our AR mechanics and lack of offence (AR drain and Health plunder nerf won't help).

[Obtena]

You'll aware there's much more to this game than PvP, right? Changes to Engineers support their other roles ingame, our's don't.

Wow, if you can't see how this proposal is infinitely better for traders in PVM, I don't know what to say. I'm not sure what 'other' roles you are referring to but for PVM, I don't see anything but love in this proposal.

[JustinSane4]

To clarify a point: I'm pretty sure that the same buff is cast whether you drain a backyard leet or LOTV. What changes based on the target level is the debuff cast.

[Kintaii]

Justin is correct - The debuff landed is what scales based on the target's level. The buff the Trader receives is not effected, nor is there a level lock on the nanocast itself.

[Edta]

...

Yes, I read that too. All of that says target, so it's about the buff that's cast on the target. At every drain you can see:

Target Cast Skill Drain Line A - Level check

Self Cast Divest Skills (Weak) Transfer


--> The trader gets the transfer (positive effect) of the drain he picked. On the target a level check is aplied to decide which drain to cast.

This seems to mean though that it doesn't matter what drain you cast on the target: even a low drain will debuff it to the max.

I want to add to what I said earlier about making drains last longer in pvm: I think they also should debuff more in pvm (and maybe not only in pvm). A 2x 138 AAO buff is not much to a lvl 300 raid boss: it's only slightly better then current RK NT blinds, but it requires 2 casts and only lasts 15 sec! In pvp: To lvl 210+ guys the 2x138 debuff isn't that much either...

Gates: In lvl 1-10 pvp you can only debuff your target for 5 (x2 I guess) points as far as I see...
At lvl 60 you'll get debuffed for 2x 32 or something... What is it now, 2x 200?

[lainbr]

OK, I dont read this, but I read the nanodoc carefully.

I liked 90% of the changes. Drains last 15 seconds on target and 10minutes on trader. NICE

BUT.... HOW THE HELL A FROOB TRADER CAN SURVIVE WITH 550 HP DRAIN?!!!

[Obtena]

Don't froobs have access to SL now for free as well? If not, that's a valid problem, in PVM as well as PVP.

[Bonghigs]

My notes are on the low to mid lvl trader which I enjoy immensely, I do not have a 220 trader, but still think my points are valid for for the reason that you and your lvl 220 is not everything..

Trader is one of the professions that are fun to lvl, and just focusing on 220 PVP, which you claim here should be the only focus.. is going to ruin that.

*snipped* to the part relevant to my earlier post. I figured it was clear i was talking about people doing paper pvp for tl7 (as happens constantly on these forums). I am not trying to suggest that only tl7 matters, but in the docs current state it is a heavy nerf on tl7 traders (which was my point) and thus i don't want people without tl7 traders making BS comments.

Obviously traders exist in other level ranges and need to be balanced there too, but that was not the focus of my post. In other words, you latched onto a sentence out of context instead of reading the whole post and taking it in context


@Obtena, how exactly has our PVM prowess been bolstered as you suggest? I prolly missed it as i only skimmed a few sections of the excel sheet, but i certainly saw no pvm love for traders except team buffs (which are still likely not good enough to get us team invites in most cases). I'd genuinely love to hear what was improved for PVM, as i clearly missed it.

[lainbr]

Don't froobs have access to SL now for free as well? If not, that's a valid problem, in PVM as well as PVP.

They do? Cause my fr00b acc only have NW

[MajorOutage]

Don't froobs have access to SL now for free as well? If not, that's a valid problem, in PVM as well as PVP.

You never cease to amaze with your lack of intelligence.

[Mastablasta]

Well..for once, I have to agree with obtena...I like the general idea behind the proposed changes. It's just a pity that once against the sheet proves that AO dev team have no clue about the mechanisms, timings and values involved in AO PvP :/.

Pretty sure that's what they do and that's why they're changing everything in pvp including specials, perks, whatever. So none of your observations are all that relevant in relation to the future

[Saetos]

Placeholder post updated to answer some of your questions.

[lainbr]

What about the fr00b trader problem? >.<