More info on LLTS nerf

[Nongo47]

Originally posted by Halfdeck


Your BALANCE sounds very communist to me. There's nothing wrong with a few privileged people owning a few uber items that everyone else wants but cant have.

Half

I agree half but this isnt the item, it was available to long and to easy. Besides your parallell to communists doesnt work for me

[Xvi]

I haven't been able to read the few hundred pages about the scope nerf, so if this has already been mentioned, I'm sorry

A 15% LLTS Crit Scope will be 'nerfed' to 8%

So a 8% LLTS Crit Scope will be nerfed lower? Or remain the same?

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Cz
Considering that they've traded hands for big amount of money, and may 'force' people to change weapons, I'll start off the discussion with saying 4 IPR points and a shop-selling price of the (now useless) scope of 200 millions at QL 200.

A possibility, madness, or both?

Best idea yet. If these scopes were bad enough to stop from dropping the first time, they shouldn't have been left in the game to begin with.

Considering no matter WHAT you do with these scopes, no matter WHAT bonuses you give them, they will still be unbalanced because there is a frozen amount of scopes, a limited amount of people who can buy them and even a smaller amount of overall orgs who will benefit from them.

The only solution is to equal the playing field using your suggestion above. I love it.

[______________Wahoo.]

Originally posted by Cz

Considering that they've traded hands for big amount of money, and may 'force' people to change weapons, I'll start off the discussion with saying 4 IPR points and a shop-selling price of the (now useless) scope of 200 millions at QL 200.

A possibility, madness, or both?

Ok, i'll take a million per quality level and the 4 ipr points.

[____________Halfdeck]

Originally posted by Cz
If we were to take the suggestion from some of you to simply delete it (i.e. make it an item which you can only sell in shops for x credits), what would be proper compensation?

CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS :

1. I prefer a modified scope to a useless scope.

2. I wouldn't mind the option of being able to sell the old ql 200 scope for 200 mil, but if it was still valuable after 14.8 I shouldnt want to sell it to a machine.

3. Possible mods to the Modified ELLTS:

8% crit chance
Adds to Ranged Init.
Reduced Init penalties in general
Increased Physics Init penalties (when everyone else is at 8% crit, MA shouldnt be at 32%+, that's overpowered).
Damage mods
Adds to offense
Evade-clc 20
Dodge 20
Duck 20
HP delta 50
Nano delta 50
NCU + 35
Perception, runspeed 100
intel / psychic 15
Conceal 200
Aim shot
all around AC 200
Max HP 100
Max Nano 300
Nano Resist 50
First Aid 50


Half

[____________Diophant]

I like the idea with 1m/ql for scope and 4 ipr.
But only +4 per char, not scope, heh.

This is a MUCH better solution than modi. the effects on the scopes.

Go tell them devs, Cz

/diophant

[____________Halfdeck]

Originally posted by fsk47


I agree half but this isnt the item, it was available to long and to easy. Besides your parallell to communists doesnt work for me

/rant on

Roughly (I'm no economist so don't argue with me, I will lose )
communist/socialist economy: everyone have access to items: same food, same car, same looking apartment, yadda yadda yadda.
Free-market economy: A select few owns multi-million dollar mansions or penthouse in Manhattan, other people live in the suburbs, others live in the ghetto, etc, etc, etc.

Argument goes, since not everyone has the cash to own 7 million dollar mansions, people who own them should relocate to the suburbs and the government should burn them down to the ground, and ban creation of any houses exceeding retail cost of 500k. This will sound good or bad to you depending on where you live, I suppose


Half


EDIT: Spur of the moment rant -> pls delete

[______________Hayake]

Originally posted by Halfdeck

3. Possible mods to the Modified ELLTS:

Reduced Init penalties in general
Increased Physics Init penalties (when everyone else is at 8% crit, MA shouldnt be at 32%+, that's overpowered).

Half

No, no, no.

Drastically reducing the init penalties on them vs the new scopes will just make them even more Uber than they already are in pvp.

As it is now if you use them in pvp you are basically forced to fight on full aggro which is a definite disadvantage since evades got a big boost.

If you drastically reduce the init penalties on them you will have old school scope owners fighting at or near full def while VE owners are forced to have a much higher agg setting. Iow they will have no disadvantage at all anymore.

Increasing the phys init penalties is a bad thing as well. Because what you basically want to say, you just state it indirectly is make it so MA's won't use them anymore.

But in pvp every non ma has MoP running. Meaning they have 16% crit chance when they also have a scope. MA's will only have 24% chance then which is barely more than non ma's and it is a key feature of the ma that (s)he is supposed to crit a lot more than other classes. Critting 33% more than another class != a lot imo.

In teams it's basically the same, sorry but when I team everyone wants MoP. So ma's will lose a huge part of their uniqueness both in pvp and pvm.

Think the best and most fair idea is still to make them useless, but sell for 1 million/ql in a shop.

Actually that's the second best idea I guess, the best would be to make them drop again so all the whiners have no reason to cry nerf anymore.


/hayake.

[________________Jinx]

Originally posted by Hayake


But in pvp every non ma has MoP running. Meaning they have 16% crit chance when they also have a scope. MA's will only have 24% chance then which is barely more than non ma's and it is a key feature of the ma that (s)he is supposed to crit a lot more than other classes. Critting 33% more than another class != a lot imo.

So now every team will need a ma to give out MoP just to do decent damage.

What if I was to solo a mission? I would have to run around and beg for MoP before every mission, now that doesn't sound like alot of fun.

33% is alot, especially when FC considers 7% to be a huge threat to the game balance.

[_________________DIO]

2 questions here

1. since 200 ellts= 8% what about ql 150 one ? <= 8% ????? plz keep the value of llts as u promised

2. add range init lol thinking about agent with x-3 another over power start nerf again £¿


Cz plz answer these 2 questions plz


thx

[____________Halfdeck]

Originally posted by Hayake

Drastically reducing the init penalties on them vs the new scopes will just make them even more Uber than they already are in pvp.

I agree with that. I'm not hoping for a drastic reduction in init penalties, just enough reduction to make the scopes useful. Of course at this point, I know FC will nerf the LLTS to oblivion, so I'll actually be fine if i just get 200 mil from the machine.

But in pvp every non ma has MoP running. Meaning they have 16% crit chance when they also have a scope. MA's will only have 24% chance then which is barely more than non ma's and it is a key feature of the ma that (s)he is supposed to crit a lot more than other classes. Critting 33% more than another class != a lot imo.
/hayake.

In PvP, I usually have a range increaser and a recomp in, so I have just enough NCU for Essence, RRFE, and 1 more buff (MoP, Doc HP, TTS, etc).. unless I'm lucky enough to get a fixer NCU buff. That means, after this nerf goes through I'll be running around 2ho with 8% crit.

MA's will have a 32% crit chance self-buffed with just UVC and 8% VE scope. That's a difference of 24% crit. 24% crit isnt alot but 7% is?? Come on.

Keep the 15% scope in game.


Half

[______________Lilbob]

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...0&pagenumber=2

[Argulace]

My suggestion would have to be one of the following or all:

1. Remove 100% of the init penalty in exchange for the lower crit.
2. Add 25% to the Aimed Shot bonus.
3. Add a damage bonus (not something silly, at least 40 for QL200)
4. Add to special attack skills IE Burst/FA/Fling/AS/Brawl/etc. Only add to the ones FC believes fit the scopes use parramaters.

Listen, these things were HARD to get for some people and they cost a TON of IP to use. I agree with most of the traders in this thread, this is going to hurt them big time. Not to mention my own profession (fixer) who vertually has no other way to equip crit items. Remember, they turned down the idea of opening the sholder slots on social/battlesuits.

You guys wonder why people don't use battle suits? Why should they?

I still say open the sholder locations on those social armors, its not like you can really get any devistating advantage, heck I think all soldiers should wear battle suits but if i had to choose, I wouldn't because you cant wear anything on the sholders.

Whats the point in a fixer (example) doing the alvin quests?

Anyways, your costing everyone 3-5 RSP. Giving those back is a fargone conclusion. Should be a means to claim them from a GM though, if people aren't shotgun/wearing LLTS they shouldnt get them. This isnt a bonus, its a necessity because there are millions of points of IP spent here.

Last thing, you guys need to code something so that scopes of ANY kind do not effectively increase crit % unless a ranged weapon is used. Melee professions are taking entirely too much advantage of these scopes.

Fact is, melee is faster than ranged any way you chop it. Adding 8% crit on top of that... Take an MA for example, they simply don't need it unless they are using the bow.

This is a big nerf, this is not some small tweak.

Arg

[aaronb]

Originally posted by Halfdeck

In PvP, I usually have a range increaser and a recomp in, so I have just enough NCU for Essence, RRFE, and 1 more buff (MoP, Doc HP, TTS, etc).. unless I'm lucky enough to get a fixer NCU buff. That means, after this nerf goes through I'll be running around 2ho with 8% crit.

Thanks for sharing this... I do the same and have been wondering if maybe I'm being an idiot. Nice to have a little validation for my deck equipment setup.

[mulps1]

baH!

[____________Fishtaco]

from where I stand there is nothing that you can do to keep the value of
the scope to what is was before this nerf post, although the actual patch has
not been implemented you have in fact killed the value of the scopes for
anyone that has one period ......
just check the exchange boards they have went from 400+ to -100 Mil credits
in 2 days
so I suggest that you allow us to recap our loses by allowing us to trade these
now useless scopes in for items of our choice { through petition to GM }, im
sure you will see a line from Tir to Old Athens with players willing to do this.
for the players that want to keep the old scopes with the new mods ? fine they
will have there scopes with the new mods but now we have a choice which is
more than we have now. Btw just toss me my MKIV and you can take all 3 of
my scopes.

[______________Lilbob]

on a side note:

mas should not get inits reduced drastically do you know how many items ma get to add physical init?

verrrrrry few

no special shoulder pads that add
no weapons that add
and the mas have much more of a prob with inits than any1 else

rather than screaming the eternal nerf, think about it for one second:

lets see you scream NERF UVC enough FC will nerf it
mas will get mad and leave
no more MoP for any1 or very rarely
whole crit system goes downhill.

vicous circle i remember not so long ago when mas were the ones that got picked on cos they had nothing, now they are good and more balanced noone likes it (as the sayin goes no pleasing some folk)

to back me up on this 3 recent case studies:

MA crit buffs are a pain in the ass every1 and his dog has uvc etc you all said

FC nerfed them so mas selfed them and had a lower crit line, load of you cried about it (the same ones that cried to get it nerfed in the first place!) and left.

Traders have uber heals better than a doc thats not fair you said

FC nerfed those and now you have a ****load of trouble getting a trader to give a wrangle (you would be lucky to get a 132 for 300k nowadays) and they refuse to heal in missions, to be quite frank ive seen how badly the heal is broke having a trader myself, at low level it almost kills you to heal, it takes a LOT of health at high level too.

or my personal fave the one i love you all for

Engies are overpowered its not fair they get an uber slayer on at level 90 make em suffer you said

FC nerfed it with OE and also blocked out the ability for us to leave the bot a zone behind when fighting (at times are only way to beat a door mob solo)

now engies reside as the biggest gimped class in the game they are a rare breed in the higher level dept, and you will be very lucky to catch one not busy or afk.

remember FC WILL give in to the YOUR demands when you whine for it, but please be prepared to face the consequences when YOU screw over your fellow players!

my suggestion to you all is shut up whining about nerfing it isnt doing the game any good and it isnt doing the community any good, its time you sat down and stopped looking for the quick solution of oh that gets nerfed so you better nerf that too bull****, and actually think of constructive ideas that will not only better this game, but better the community and bring more balance to it too!

[aaronb]

Originally posted by bored@home
on a side note:

mas should not get inits reduced drastically do you know how many items ma get to add physical init?

verrrrrry few

no special shoulder pads that add
no weapons that add
and the mas have much more of a prob with inits than any1 else

...

FC nerfed those and now you have a ****load of trouble getting a trader to give a wrangle (you would be lucky to get a 132 for 300k nowadays) and they refuse to heal in missions, to be quite frank ive seen how badly the heal is broke having a trader myself, at low level it almost kills you to heal, it takes a LOT of health at high level too.

MAs aren't going to get much sympathy here. This change is going to have the least effect on them and MAs have pretty incredible damage output right now. They are the only profession I'm aware of that can operate at 1/1 in full defense and maintain solid damage output. Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I don't see how they have any init problems whatsoever. And MAs make up 16.3% of the active player base, so I don't think anyone is going to have any problems finding MA buffs, especially when I'm asked as much by them for wrangles (for UVC/FFoK) as I ask them for crit buffs.

I wrangle for free. The problem is that there are so few traders left; so in order to get a wrangle, you have to interrupt one of a very short list. That's what makes traders want to charge. It's not some revenge mechanism.

[____________Halfdeck]

Originally posted by bored@home

my suggestion to you all is shut up whining about nerfing it isnt doing the game any good and it isnt doing the community any good, its time you sat down and stopped looking for the quick solution of oh that gets nerfed so you better nerf that too bull****, and actually think of constructive ideas that will not only better this game, but better the community and bring more balance to it too!

Its all fair and good to nerf scopes but bad to nerf UVC? I don't care about UVC, I just want to keep my scope, but since that ain't gonna happen, just give me my 200 mil and I'll shut up.

Lol the same people that defend the scope nerf or don't care, cry out against nerfs period when I bring up UVC. If you're against all nerfs then stand up and tell FC you're against the scope nerf.


Half

[Argulace]

if nothing else, FC could nerf the scope to be useless unless you use a ranged weapon and solve the entire thing.

Fact is, MA's have no business using LLTS, no offence to them but the self only UVC kills any argument that MA's need LLTS.

That coupled with the fact that melee weapons do FAR more minimum damage on average than ranged weapons do AND are infinately faster means, melee's dont need scopes.

I personally have 2 melee profession alts and neither of them use scopes because they simply do not need it.

There is absolutely nothing anyone can say that would convince me scopes need to be useful when NOT using ranged weapons.

What good does Aimed Shot bonus do for an enforcer?

none.

Adventurer?

none.

MA?

ONLY when they use bows, that fits under the useful catigory, other than that, they got no use for a scope. It does more harm than good over all.

My opinion... for what its worth.

Just kill the scope for melee professions, if you dont have a ranged weapon on, its worthless junk. You could easily do that by making the melee init penalty 4X what it is for ranged.

Arg