Reflect bracers

[engelstein]

Originally posted by Mike "Kinkstaah" Bond
Eh, it doesnt help anyone or give anyone an advantage. It makes people die quicker. Read the thread by Kalishinivo or something titled RRFE Self only Fictation (or something ) For a good, alternative idea to this "problem"

It gives those who have no bracers an advantage, relative to their position before. Which is irrelevant, but is the root of the whining by Megabio, Looke, et al.

[ethernal3]

Originally posted by Shub
It gives those who have no bracers an advantage, relative to their position before. Which is irrelevant, but is the root of the whining by Megabio, Looke, et al.

Oh.. poor babies, god forbid people be better than them!

As of now, the only thing that seperates the "casual" gamer from the "power" gamer is bracers. That's it. I play the game in all my free time, and yet I just have a few small advantagous items (dragon body, etc, they don't matter all that much) other than bracers. Am I supposed to be as weak as that person who plays 3 hours a day?

Also, the nerf doesn't change nor balence anything (except those who don't have them.) Yes, it is laziness if you don't get them. It is their own fault. There are no profession-wear requirments.

And yes, a doctor with bracers and RRFE will be too powerful.

So, make Reflect Shields self only. (both of them.) So, you say, engies and soldiers will no longer be wanted in teams!

So, give them an aura that affects only the people in the team in Non-PvP zones. T (if funcom makes the new hunting grounds in PvP zones, doesn't do much but make people go back to missions). Make the soldier ones add 30% reflect, and the engies one give 24% reflect, and also stack with other auras (i.e. ACs) and then fix the auras so they aren't so damn annoying. So, you get to maintain the balence in PvM, as so many people complain about, plus you get the added bonus of Soldiers and Engy's reflect being a unique ability in PvP. And no more doctors that can outheal anyone.
~Chris

[Beartwo]

I have played a long time, and I dont think of myself as a powergamer.
I have however deciced that camping and/or searching for this sort of item does nothing to add to my gaming enjoyment.

I have some TL 4 bracers and I dont see the need for anything higher.

What the highest lvl bracers have done is make it impossible for me to participate in high lvl pvp without instant reclaim.

Is the only option open to me Arena ganking then? OR just be cannon fodder for healing profs so they can kill my gimp soldier?

Bracers make healers virtually impossible to kill, and thats what you want... to be invincible.

I cannot have any sympathy for that wish, it would unbalance everything in the game.

[Kanatach]

Originally posted by Looke
Take a 300 hit, that will mean 21 hp, in my eyes that's useless.

That's not useless (0 would be useless)

Seriously, I see your point, when you have camped for weeks to get a powerful PvP and PvM item, this nerf hits you hard. On the other hand, I am glad this nerf will hit existing items in game also, instead of a fix like the scope-nerf. For once the gap between the haves and the have-nots will not be widened further by an item-change. That gap is already too wide, and should not be widened further.

[M@hdi]

Originally posted by Megabio
Oh.. poor babies, god forbid people be better than them!

Most people (yes, most people) get their bracers through the common practise of ninjalooting through missions (those without the ability to mezz/solo through 180 - 190+ missions). I don't know if this practise makes them better players....

As of now, the only thing that seperates the "casual" gamer from the "power" gamer is bracers. That's it. I play the game in all my free time, and yet I just have a few small advantagous items (dragon body, etc, they don't matter all that much) other than bracers. Am I supposed to be as weak as that person who plays 3 hours a day?

I play the game in nearly all my free time as well, yet am stuck with a ghetto proj reflect (6% or so) and a lowbie melee shielding bracer (not that I care). I don't think the amount time played accounts for the amount of bracers a person has. I don't open enough chests I guess.....Prolly busy keeping someones behind alive (wishful thinking, I know) Am I sposed to be weaker then the guy/gal that blacks out of range on my team view 10 times per mission and drags the occasional rollerrat to the team?

Also, the nerf doesn't change nor balance anything (except those who don't have them.) Yes, it is laziness if you don't get them. It is their own fault. There are no profession-wear requirments.

It does balance certain things. If not that, it shifts balance to a different point. It balances the fact that pvp (at this point) is not a matter of skill/character pumping, it's a matter of how high your bracers are and how much reflect you can get in every damage type. I agree that everyone can get them, but I don't agree with the fact that they should be defining how good someone is at pvp. If the entire concept of pvp rests on the fact if you have or have not got a specific item, imo that item is overpowered and thus unbalancing.

And yes, a doctor with bracers and RRFE will be too powerful.

So is a doc without bracers and rrfe, that won't change since this nerf hits everyone exactly the same. Everyone knows that docs are a "tad" overpowered in pvp, this has nothing to do with bracers. The worry lies in the fact that some proffs (and I know engis are one of them) rely solely on high lvl bracers to even be ABLE to pvp. These are profession specific issues which again, have nothing to do with this bracer nerf on its own.

So, make Reflect Shields self only. (both of them.) So, you say, engies and soldiers will no longer be wanted in teams!

If RRFE and/or RHC should be self only shouldn't realy matter. When I pvp, I pvp completely selfbuffed which is in my book the only way to go. Sure I can go running around for reflect buffs, essences, Fixer NCU/hot buff, Aegis, Unexpected Attack, tts, MoP and get triple mochams for if there is a trader lurking somewhere but what's the fun in that? You win some, you lose some....Soldiers are wanted in teams for their damage output, the shield is just icing on the cake. Engis aren't the most popular in teams and the (very good) RHC buff isn't gonna change that, when was the last time you saw a mob alive for longer then 20 seconds? Let the buffs be self only, it will most likely only hurt the lower levels among us and they realy aren't bothered by this bracer nerf (3% of no damage is still no damage).

So, give them an aura that affects only the people in the team in Non-PvP zones. T (if funcom makes the new hunting grounds in PvP zones, doesn't do much but make people go back to missions). Make the soldier ones add 30% reflect, and the engies one give 24% reflect, and also stack with other auras (i.e. ACs) and then fix the auras so they aren't so damn annoying. So, you get to maintain the balence in PvM, as so many people complain about, plus you get the added bonus of Soldiers and Engy's reflect being a unique ability in PvP.

A useful engi symp (no FunCom 720 ACs is NOT useful, nor is +25 damage and reflect debuff in pvm is rubbish as well) would be a good idea, if it should be even more reflect I don't know, give the mobs a break! The entire problem with the high end game is that it's to friggin easy already. There is about as much balance in pvm as there is in pvp, 20 minutes for a Q200 team mission is commonplace and if somebody dies the entire team is stunned for 15 minutes "Did this just happen?!" I agree that engis and soldiers should have their uniqueness in reflect so make the buffs self only, but the game doesn't need more reflect in pvm. Less would be preferable (from a mobs perspective) People are hardly taking damage as is....

And no more doctors that can outheal anyone.
~Chris

heh, and this is relevant to this issue how?

This nerf will have a serious impact on both pvp and pvm, very serious. It also means that the small collection of t6 bracers I have collected will go to waste before I ever got a chance to use them. I don't mind (being a doc that's not realy objective) because indeed I think that 42% energy or melee reflect at lvl 190 would make my character overpowered. On the other side, this nerf will force a lot of people back in the roll that was set out for their class in pvm. No more mushy nanomage casters tanking a Q200 mission because they have 70% reflect and thus can do it eventhough only soldiers, enforcers and MA's should be able to do such a thing with backup healing. I think this nerf will make the game a lot more interesting on a lot of terrains. Regrettably the nerf will also entail that the classes that solely rely on bracers to be able to pvp will lose that edge. That is a sad thing, but has little to do with bracers but a lot more with the need to improve those classes in that respect. If a class need bracers to be able to function, something is wrong with the class

-mah

[assassimon]

I think it's a good change for PvP (and yes, I have the most important bracers for PvP)

[____________RedSonja]

Exactly, but some of us really don't give a **** about PvP - nerfing us for the sake of some PvP'er getting upset because he cannot find any of the top level bracers is not the way to go about it.

[ethernal3]

Originally posted by M@hdi


Most people (yes, most people) get their bracers through the common practise of ninjalooting through missions (those without the ability to mezz/solo through 180 - 190+ missions). I don't know if this practise makes them better players....
[/b]

Some people get their loot from ninjaing a giant dragon sitting in a dungeon. Don't see nerf mongols crying about them.


I play the game in nearly all my free time as well, yet am stuck with a ghetto proj reflect (6% or so) and a lowbie melee shielding bracer (not that I care). I don't think the amount time played accounts for the amount of bracers a person has. I don't open enough chests I guess.....Prolly busy keeping someones behind alive (wishful thinking, I know) Am I sposed to be weaker then the guy/gal that blacks out of range on my team view 10 times per mission and drags the occasional rollerrat to the team?

If someone can't solo a roller-rat, kick them from your team




It does balance certain things. If not that, it shifts balance to a different point. It balances the fact that pvp (at this point) is not a matter of skill/character pumping, it's a matter of how high your bracers are and how much reflect you can get in every damage type. I agree that everyone can get them, but I don't agree with the fact that they should be defining how good someone is at pvp. If the entire concept of pvp rests on the fact if you have or have not got a specific item, imo that item is overpowered and thus unbalancing.

The item itself is overpowered, but unbalencing? No. It's not like one profession can get it over the rest. Every profession can solo ql 180 missions when they are level 200 if they need bracers that despretly.

So is a doc without bracers and rrfe, that won't change since this nerf hits everyone exactly the same. Everyone knows that docs are a "tad" overpowered in pvp, this has nothing to do with bracers. The worry lies in the fact that some proffs (and I know engis are one of them) rely solely on high lvl bracers to even be ABLE to pvp. These are profession specific issues which again, have nothing to do with this bracer nerf on its own.

The bracer nerf was most directly called for against doctors and their ability to heal, and that's why I brought it up. And the bracer nerf doesn't change it.



If RRFE and/or RHC should be self only shouldn't realy matter. When I pvp, I pvp completely selfbuffed which is in my book the only way to go. Sure I can go running around for reflect buffs, essences, Fixer NCU/hot buff, Aegis, Unexpected Attack, tts, MoP and get triple mochams for if there is a trader lurking somewhere but what's the fun in that? You win some, you lose some....Soldiers are wanted in teams for their damage output, the shield is just icing on the cake. Engis aren't the most popular in teams and the (very good) RHC buff isn't gonna change that, when was the last time you saw a mob alive for longer then 20 seconds? Let the buffs be self only, it will most likely only hurt the lower levels among us and they realy aren't bothered by this bracer nerf (3% of no damage is still no damage).

I know most people wanted me into their teams for my high damage output as well. Engineers can do a great deal of damage, and I generally did more damage than everyone but Martial Arts.



A useful engi symp (no FunCom 720 ACs is NOT useful, nor is +25 damage and reflect debuff in pvm is rubbish as well) would be a good idea, if it should be even more reflect I don't know, give the mobs a break! The entire problem with the high end game is that it's to friggin easy already. There is about as much balance in pvm as there is in pvp, 20 minutes for a Q200 team mission is commonplace and if somebody dies the entire team is stunned for 15 minutes "Did this just happen?!" I agree that engis and soldiers should have their uniqueness in reflect so make the buffs self only, but the game doesn't need more reflect in pvm. Less would be preferable (from a mobs perspective) People are hardly taking damage as is....

Yes, but it keeps things from changing the way they are. If needed, further actions can be taken for PvM. At the moment, most people whining are saying "blah it's nerfing pvm blah" and personally I don't agree with that. People generally blame PvPer's (and it's true too) about whining for them.

[/b]
[quote of "prevents doctors from outhealing anyone."]

heh, and this is relevant to this issue how?

[/b]

The nerf was generally brought on because people said that a doctor with bracers and RRFE were far too powerful.



s nerf will have a serious impact on both pvp and pvm, very serious. It also means that the small collection of t6 bracers I have collected will go to waste before I ever got a chance to use them. I don't mind (being a doc that's not realy objective) because indeed I think that 42% energy or melee reflect at lvl 190 would make my character overpowered. On the other side, this nerf will force a lot of people back in the roll that was set out for their class in pvm. No more mushy nanomage casters tanking a Q200 mission because they have 70% reflect and thus can do it eventhough only soldiers, enforcers and MA's should be able to do such a thing with backup healing. I think this nerf will make the game a lot more interesting on a lot of terrains. Regrettably the nerf will also entail that the classes that solely rely on bracers to be able to pvp will lose that edge. That is a sad thing, but has little to do with bracers but a lot more with the need to improve those classes in that respect. If a class need bracers to be able to function, something is wrong with the class


I believe that the new outdoor hunting should have been implimented before we start judging PvM of the future. I believe that it will be much harder and that they are basing their caclulations on having RRFE + decent bracers. Therefore it might be quite difficult to do the new hunting spots, even with a doctor and an enforcer.
~Chris

[Czarina]

Originally posted by RedSonja
Exactly, but some of us really don't give a **** about PvP - nerfing us for the sake of some PvP'er getting upset because he cannot find any of the top level bracers is not the way to go about it.

right now, all I here about besides the bracer issue is how easy the game is and how boring... Once you hit lvl 150 you will probably never again die in PvM.... WTF is challenging or hard about that? I haven't died in well over 18 levels which is more than 350 million xp.. in fact I can't remember the last time I was below 50% health.

The most ironic part of this... is I tank my missions about half the time as I am a soldier.... I do not use reflect bracers, because I have not been lucky to get any that aren't TL6... all I have are a bunch of shielding bracers. I also don't bother to change them out, so I wear 1 Projectile and 1 melee...

Still The game is too darn easy... And to boot I have never had any bracers on any of my chars before lvl 100 and never had any problem... I consider myself as playing a lot...



The thing is, the game is easy without the bracers, with the bracers it is stupid... the only defining aspect of soldiers is their reflect shields... when everyone runs around with a permanent TMS it is dumb...

I think Funcom has realized how unbalancing some of the wrist items can be, which is why they also did away with the arul saba gems.

the game get's boring because no one has the slightest chance of death and you do the same thing in missions 24-7.... this is why I've started arguing for items to go to QL250 so that people start attempting to do missions that they may die in. I remember when I used to hunt in Ace camp with my agent... If ever if saw the attacked by I had to go running for shelter, because I'd be dead real quick... funny thing was it was when I had the most fun in the game. I had no bracers but the risk of hunting in the camp was worth the reward!


In addition to adding the chance for someone to die in the game, Maybe this will give me a reason to bother with PvP again... I haven't been on the front line fighting for quite awhile.

And maybe, just maybe, I'll see someone die in a PvM fight... but for some reason I still don't think this is going to happen.

I'm glad all the people who ninja looted bracers are getting what they deserve... I'm sorry it is at the expense of people who apparently can't figure out how to live without them...

I also hope that Engies get their long deserved fix soon, they shouldn't have to rely on bracers as their only hope in PvP... or maybe engies should be given the trade skills to make different kinds of bracers which give mods, there can be both engie only ones and ones for the community... just an idea....

[Intone]

Originally posted by Looke
How can something that anyone can get at anytime be imbalance. It's just a matter of player who spend time on optimizing their char vs player who don't and with this change to there won't be any different. Getting a bracer is just a matter of time and effort.

Surely you agree that no single item should ever be that dominant in character optimization as bracers can be?

[Rebecca90]

Enable all professions to change dmg type at will! Instead of making bracers less functional in general, (as theyre great help to a lot of players in pvm combat) make the professions that are vulnerable to the dualTL6bracerwearingpeople LESS vulnerable!

It works quite well - as an MA ive found my ability to change dmg type to be one of my greatest strengths, along with crit chance. If it was up to me, id give everyone this opportunity. I think it also makes pvp more exciting, as it gets less predictive. (you dont know what bracers your opponent is wearing at all times, and youd have to switch dmg type accordingly)

[Treonaut]

You gonna actually 'fight' a mission to get a qlvl250 item and risk losing 8 million exp somewhere on the 4th floor?

Don't you think it would be better to rush the mission, blitz, it sneak it, or whatever?

The fact that FunCom made it so demoralizingly tedious to level from178 to 179 is one reason that people ain't gonna fight Real Means for 2 minutes a piece and risk losing any member of their party to death. Losing 8 or 10 million exp is not 'fun'. It doesn't make the game 'better'.

Bracers help the high level at least move along at a clip that prevents you from quitting the game.

[engelstein]

Originally posted by Megabio
Also, the nerf doesn't change nor balence anything (except those who don't have them.) Yes, it is laziness if you don't get them. It is their own fault. There are no profession-wear requirments.

The other side of the coin: just because someone is crazy dedicated shouldn't mean that they get a coupe items with which to totally own me in pvp. If you're crazy dedicated and you own me because you're higher level and have much more pvp experience, that's great. Then I deserve to die. But dying because someone took out a couple weeks to do single missions to farm bracers...I can't accept that. It's pretty much the same situation as with Knight's Armor.

So, make Reflect Shields self only. (both of them.) So, you say, engies and soldiers will no longer be wanted in teams!

So, give them an aura that affects only the people in the team in Non-PvP zones. T (if funcom makes the new hunting grounds in PvP zones, doesn't do much but make people go back to missions). Make the soldier ones add 30% reflect, and the engies one give 24% reflect, and also stack with other auras (i.e. ACs) and then fix the auras so they aren't so damn annoying. So, you get to maintain the balence in PvM, as so many people complain about, plus you get the added bonus of Soldiers and Engy's reflect being a unique ability in PvP. And no more doctors that can outheal anyone.
~Chris

I'd like to see this in addition to a bracer nerf. Of course, this probably won't happen. I can live with that.

[ethernal3]

Originally posted by Shub
[B]The other side of the coin: just because someone is crazy dedicated shouldn't mean that they get a coupe items with which to totally own me in pvp. If you're crazy dedicated and you own me because you're higher level and have much more pvp experience, that's great. Then I deserve to die. But dying because someone took out a couple weeks to do single missions to farm bracers...I can't accept that. It's pretty much the same situation as with Knight's Armor.

Rather hard to level at level 200.
~Chris

[engelstein]

Originally posted by Megabio
Rather hard to level at level 200.
~Chris

Way to zoom right past my point to irrelevance! Now let's see if we can find out what you missed:

and have much more pvp experience

That doesn't come from levels.