v1 Agent Nano Document!

[Ninewood]

1. is coming in multiple forms.
2. is not really treated in the nano documents, that is mostly perk, special attack, and weapon territory.
3. is coming just as we all requested; filling gaps in teams.

...you do sound like there's hope...

[Dimmufodr]

Could you elaborate on the concept you're talking about Dimmu? I'll send the feedback straight to the devs, and tbh I am not too happy myself about the 100% NCU wipe between VP changes. The very least that needs to happen is for Agent nanos to become immune to the NCU wipe, so you can use the VPs to swap on the fly and use what's best in each situation without a complete rebuff (as Hotdog said).

The concept of being able to combine benefits from different toolsets is the original concept. With the NCU wipe I can't really see how that will be possible anymore.

What about the ability to do cool things such as making a flying mini slayerdroid? Or, give yourself some NT buffs before you go doc? Swap from trader and pre drain, so you can equip some profession specific weapon for buffing? Or, give yourself Odin's eye and other profession specific buffs we have access to now?

Not to mention all the abilities that were taken away from agents years ago. Even before true profession we could cycle through professions and with some planning combine parts of their toolset. I still have UVC and Cacodemon uploaded in my nanos and have some good memories from using those back in the day. If these changes go through all of that will be history.

Everything that has happened since around patch 13.0-14.0 has been about moving the profession further away from this idea. Although the crit nanos gave us many new strategies and some of the rk nanos became more powerful with the increase in skills after SL, this toolset was never renewed and it has gradually become weaker compared to other professions in pvm and pvp.

As someone mentioned, they have released the document without revealing information that could be important, so I can only speak based on what I have seen in the document so far. And I must say that I'm not at all happy with the planned changes regarding FP. You should really ask them to rethink some of the ideas they are planning here Lupus (NCU wipe etc.) and at least leave some of our original toolset behind.

[Anarchic1]

I luv when people without 220 agents talk in this thread

[Anarchic1]

looks like agents are going to become the most difficult professions to play with 10+ hotbars if FC expects us to switch profs every 10 secs

[asyndion]

Going to put ,my 2 cents in as a returning player.

If most of these new restrictions are implemented as is,
yes this is a complaint,
then might as well put my agent back to level 1 and relearn everything over again. OK maybe not that drastic of measures .
If the new agent phase is catered to be more streamlined then I see nothing wrong with evolving the proffession to keep up with the other proffs.
But since we have always been a rifle class predonimantly. As other proffs have weapon choices ie. ranged/melee advies, then

give us the option to use the new shadow proff or to continue using mimic as is now.
Shadow Agent or Mimic Agent.

I wouldn't want to see our toolset handicapped but ratheropened up to more possibilities.
So if I don't use shadow proff then I won't get the specific perks and the bonuses and nerfs.
Maintaining Mimic would keep things the same.

As far as the new Agent specific nanos and perks, they could be an entirely different agent setup especially at high levels, by choosing not to use SP or MP would be able to compete with other proffs by being able to cast those higher nanos and succeed in Battlesttion or DPS.

[Obtena]

oh by the way...
1.detaunts
2.detaunt procs
3.bail line
4.skill lock decrease line

makes a total of 4 useless or near useless nanolines.

I would just like to contrast this with the fact that if these detaunts are as useless to agents as the new taunts will be to the tanking professions, their might have actually be a balanced situation here where everyone has to use their aggro management tools. I guess not everyone wants tools they need, being much too used to the current slack situation where they have tools that they don't need.

I won't extinguish the feelings of agents I'm reading here, but my initial thoughts to the document was that it was a groundbreaking as the NT one. Of course that's scary to many, but then it's clear from reading this thread that very few people are able to envision how any of this will play out in the new balanced game state.

[Mordo]

Looking back I finally find the irony behind this post.

[agentwolve]

Solution = Roll an agent in SW: ToR.

[Josephina]

I guess I'm one of many that doesn't like the false profession changes.

The stuff I don't like:

1. An agent cycling false professions can buff his entire team (5 persons - unless the agent is on his second account, then it's 6) or raids with all long duration (every single buff will last 4 hours according to the last documentation) buffs he has access to, while not being able to run any buffs on himself. This ....
   
   • makes professions whose support toolset depends on long duration buffs even less desired compared to professions with toolsets that require them to be at the scene. Without an fp mechanic like this, to fully buff a leveling character (or team or raidgroup) you would have to log in a fixer to cast 4h ncu & 4h hot, followed by logging in MP to cast 4h CM, 4h -cost, followed by logging in a soldier for 4h reflects, followed ... All this annoyance could be almost completely replaced by logging in 1 agent, handing out all relevant long duration buffs and then logging off that agent.
   • makes it so the person who least benefits from the fp toolset, is the agent himself (unless the agent is only a buffmule on a second account).
   • will make leveling (or buying once it gets put into the shop) a level 199 froob agent much more interesting than it already is.
2. Agent in some false professions will have better nanocasting abilities than the profession he is fp'ing. This obviously won't be the case in fp NT/MP or doctor, but there's plenty of professions that have worse nanoskills than agents. A leveling agent will then be able to cast non-levellocked nanos earlier than the original professions themselves, till the agent reaches the first non-visual professions nanos at which point the original professions can catch up and eventually overtake the agent.
3. Agent's play gets changed from "an offensive ranged profession who can mimic the toolsets of other professions to an inferior degree" (broad generalisation I know ) to "a ranged profession who can mimic 1 other profession to an inferior degree": Forever the weakest link.

I'd rather see the agent fp toolset keep more true to the original version (AO release):

• All active nanos of all professions fp'able;
• Some chosen long duration lines fp'able;
• Always able to use agent nanos;
• Nanoskill debuff from mimicing dependant on the professions fp'ed (fe mimic NT without a penalty, mimic fixer with -50% penalty of the ip part of nanoskills);
  
  • This will also depend on nanoskill requirements of all professions being put sufficiently high, not like it is now for where some professions overshoot their requirements by a lot;
  • This would also mean that an agent who is teamed with a trader, has CM running and is in full scouts, can cast the same nanos as professions who didn't have to make any gear sacrifices... But imo, if you've made the sacrifices needed to be able to do so, you should be able to reap the benefits of it;
• -cost debuff part the same way (+0% for fp NT/MP, +10% for fp trader/doctor, ... , +30% for fp soldier/fixer/...);
• Mimic duration 4 hours, after the first 20minutes another mimic can be cast over it (no cancellation of buffs or anything).
• True profession can be cast over a mimic at any time, but locks itself for 20 minutes
• The "offensive ranged" put back into agents in pve as well. I don't expect the double fling alone to be enough.
  
  • One thing I'd really like to see is the 13k hardcap damage mechanic changed, consistent 13k damage has been reached for far too long now already and certainly with an attack timer of 3s this needs a change. Something that could be done: 20k pve hardcap, halved in pvp: 10k pvp hardcap (unlike how it is now, where the 13k hardcap applies to both pve and pvp).

[Arlanon]

Scenario 1: There's a Soldier and an MA here! Hooray! OS/AT/RRFE/MoP plz!!
OS/AT/RRFE/MoP for all ensues

Scenario 2: There's no Soldier or MA here, but there's an Agent! Hooray! OS/AT/RRFE/MoP plz!
OS/AT/RRFE/MoP for all ensues

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how it is perfectly fine for everyone else to receive multiple buffs from us, but giving ourselves the same buffs in the process is OP. The NCU wipe is stupid, as is anyone who defends it.

Such scenarios can be applied to both pvm and pvp.

[LyraJ]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how it is perfectly fine for everyone else to receive multiple buffs from us, but giving ourselves the same buffs in the process is OP. The NCU wipe is stupid, as is anyone who defends it.

Not the best approach.

I'm assuming that the devs problem/concern is that an agent would be able to keep themselves super-buffed all the time, or at least to the limit of their NCU. I guess I can understand that devs are concerned players could abuse this in new and interesting ways that they're not able to anticipate. Heaven knows that wouldn't be a surprise. If there is some alternative reason, please say so.

However, I don't see that the possibility of an agent being their own happy little OSB factory is really that game-breaking in comparison to the sheer hassle it's going to cause for all agents. I can't fathom that a leveling agent wanting CM/runspeed/ess/hot is such a surprise and the main difference between hunting down others for osbs and doing it yourself is aggravation. Agents get plenty of aggravation already.

Like many others I'm not sure how FC can justify the agent being a buffmonkey for everyone else but having it be OP for the one doing the buffing. There needs to be a better solution than wiping NCU every time. Agent bufflines need to be immune to the wipe and if devs are *that* concerned about agents being buffed supermen add a 5-10m (or w/ever) nano to the visual professions - if you change profs with that nano running you get all non-agent nanos wiped.

[Leetlover]

Im kinda with Gatester here... When the hell where agents ever allowed to freely cycle threw FPs to give themselves self only buffs from 13 other professions?

Since TP, and that alone doesn't make agent OP. It's when agent combat sophisticatedly as doctor it's good.

I think the appropiate and sosologically correct direction forward is:

• Extended access to other professions repetoir (TP accessible early in the game w 0 cooldown).
• Less effective performing the functions of the FP'd profession, but extend functionabillty (perks).
• More effective performing the functions of the unique profession, regardles the FP.

[Leetlover]

Is it just me or do a lot of the complaints seem to revolve around FP: Doctor being nerfed

From powerplayers yeah, but there is also huge sosiological concerns with the propoposals.


The whole idea behind FP is going undercover and the penalities are there to simulate exactly that. Agent get access to the itemization and nano-repetoir, but will be very bad when attempting to perform the functions of the visual profession.

The new FP doesn't rebalance this, but it redefines agent and the FP-system instead.

A big balance-issue with the doctor-buff is that we are more effective in combat when performing the functions of the profession and less effective performing the functions of our own profession.


That is what I think should be balanced.

2 be more self-reliant in our own profession in combat.




We should of course get some, mediocre benefits from FP for versatility, but remain as lethal. :>


I am also 100% against making agent a def-class like shade is, and the Dev's should be told that the big majority of customers and agent-fans actually never suggested this either. I absolutely <3 the current concept of a highly lethal DD that always will find some way to do damage on their opponents, and want that profession 2 b rebalanced.

Agent is designed to be a sophisticated assassin and subterfuge-specialist that offers gameplay dedicated to stealth&sniping. Imo, they should drop the new FP-idea and delete all caster-effects from our profession-locked repetoir, then offer the same via FP'd repetoir instead, for those who have that style.

So the appopiate direction forward would be to remove nano-init and nano-cost from agent LE-Gear for example and do a proper rebalance regarding these concerns, but with with RESPECT for the sosiological integrity of the profession.

Certain powerplayers seems to only focus on mathemathical circumstances (where prestige and epeen seems to be the endgoal), not gameplay and professional function, but even they seems to cringe at the proposals.


4 good reasons, it's epic fail I think

We *were* utilizing more than one toolset even before TP days, definitely.

----------

Ya, not only in programs, but armor and items aswell. This is just social convenience with litte effect on balance.

I think the Dev should rebalance existing game instead of attempting to erase&replace 10 years of stayingpower.

[Leetlover]

I luv when people without 220 agents talk in this thread

And I love when powerplayers with gross disrespect for a profession think their feedback is legit.

What about the ability to do cool things such as making a flying mini slayerdroid?

Yep!

You should really ask them to rethink some of the ideas they are planning here Lupus (NCU wipe etc.) and at least leave some of our original toolset behind.

Who said the devs came up with this?

give us the option to use the new shadow proff or to continue using mimic as is now.
Shadow Agent or Mimic Agent.

I concur slightly offtopic; They should boost ingame nanocrystal-production so players continously can update nanorepetoir and still be a social human being, but thats a diferent topic...heh

I would just like to contrast this with the fact that if these detaunts are as useless to agents as the new taunts will be to the tanking professions,

Yeah, we don't need detaunt/taunt so they are there for FUN and convenience.

Thus having them 100% Effective = more fun and convenient. Devs should take powerplayer-googles off. JMO =)

[Biggysmallz]

So? when do they share that secret info? I don't like going through 8page whine thread all the time just to check if it is posted

What I like about ability to swap mimics is that still ensures that agents will be the most versatile and hardest prof to play (here i'm hoping hardest != nerfed).

[Parranoid1]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how it is perfectly fine for everyone else to receive multiple buffs from us, but giving ourselves the same buffs in the process is OP. The NCU wipe is stupid, as is anyone who defends it.

Ok, I'll give it a shot.

With the new visual profession nano, you will be able to swap profession every *10 seconds*.

Now, this essentially means that in 1 minute you can get 5-6 professions worth of buffs on yourself. This was never an issue in the old system as you either needed to wait 20 minutes, or you would need to terminate multiple times in bs.

That's just the passive buffs, lets now wander into the realm of active, short term buffs.

Imagine that you are now able to keep all buffs when switching, you VP to enfo and cast rage and challenger, this is a scarey force. You now, without penalty, swap to soldier and cast TMS.

Your agent now has rage, challenger and TMS running. This makes you a near unstoppable death machine for 30-40 seconds. At that point you can then swap back to enfo and do it over again. Essentially making you a god for 30-40 seconds with a 20 second down time.


This would be "Retardedly" overpowered and would be a direct side effect of allowing fast profession switching without losing whats in your NCU.

Having said that, I dont agree with wiping ALL of your NCU, I feel the "vanilla" agent buffs should remain untouched.

[Leetlover]

Now, this essentially means that in 1 minute you can get 5-6 professions worth of buffs on yourself.

Everyone can ^^ /vicinity 'buffs plz' and often the profession can cast better, FAT vs AT for example.

There is hacked grafts aswell. Professions should have abillitys others don't have. Buffs like NSD could wipe, mebbe.

[Mordo]

Speaking of hacked grafts we have no clue what fc is going to do with them. Does fc intend to expand them? The ES graft will change for sure if ES has changes to its mods. Perhaps a RRFE hacked graft will exist. Even worse if they put nano cans in the item shop which would be fc forcing us to buy items with cash shop just to fill out or tool set.

p.s. At least we have alternatives if agent becomes total garbage. Funcom should take note that other games in the sci-fi genre do exist more and more now.
YOU ARE INVITED TO TEST Star Wars: THE OLD REPUBLIC!

You must respond to confirm your
participation in the upcoming Beta Testing Weekend!

[Shirayuki]

Parranoid1,

That is exactly where selective wipe should kick in instead of mindless full-wipe.
As well as prof-defining nanos like auras, no one is asking to keep "active" stuff like TMS or challenger or that kind of short term boosts.

What we keep saying here is the complete wipe would destroy so many aspect of general gameplay experience
whilist failing to provide intended(?) functionality of preventing us from having so many buffs,
which we can receive from people around just fine.

[Parranoid1]

Everyone can ^^ /vicinity 'buffs plz' and often the profession can cast better, FAT vs AT for example.

There is hacked grafts aswell. Professions should have abillitys others don't have. Buffs like NSD could wipe, mebbe.

I fully agree, and these changes will not change your ability to receive buffs from others, what it will do though, is stop you from using your on the fly profession switching ability. Thats the trade off. You can however, pick your favourite VP and use that with all the outsides buffs you want. Same as today.

This is the same for everyone else, who can receive these buffs but not change their profession.

My point was more directed towards the "active" type buffs of NS/TMS/Rage/Challenger etc.

That is exactly where selective wipe should kick in instead of mindless full-wipe.

Again, I completely agree, I've even said so multiple times in this thread, including the one you're responding to. It should only remove buffs that aren't specific to the agent profession.

As well as prof-defining nanos like auras, no one is asking to keep "active" stuff like TMS or challenger or that kind of short term boosts.

Then have these active buffs removed on change of VP, that imo would be fine. But unfortunatly thats not what im arguing against. I'm arguing against the "Keep your NCU in tact when swapping", which has the side effect of keeping the short term active buffs.

What we keep saying here is the complete wipe would destroy so many aspect of general gameplay experience

We, being me as well. it seems almost as if you've not read my whole post.

whilist failing to provide intended(?) functionality of preventing us from having so many buffs, which we can receive from people around just fine.

I think it was moreso added for what I described above, removing the short term active buffs that could be exploited by allowing NCU to stay fully in tact. I think losing the ability to give ourself multiple professions worth of buffs is an unfortunate side effect.

What we GAIN from this, is the ability to adapt our available toolset to *any* situation we come across. Rather then be locked into one toolset for 20 minutes.

Imo, that level of flexabiltiy (you know, the thing every agent wants and says is a big part of the agent profession), far outweights the ability to selfbuff 3 professions of buffs, instead of 2.

Keep in mind that buffing ourselves up the wahzoo might not even be fully needed for our survival anymore, as this "Reveal" thing might show that we will have a decent defence as part of out "Agent" toolset rather then coming from our "Mimic'ed" toolset, ala complete heal.