Debuffs: Do they enhance your pvp experiance?

[Moonbolt]

wasnt planning to respond to any more of cratteys post since he clearly just is spewing garbage all over the forums.
but this trolling post is just to much.. anyone that has read more then 4 posts of him has to realise he has no valid arguments and are trying to hide the fact with posting nonsence as soon as he gets called out on it.

[crattey]

wasnt planning to respond to any more of cratteys post since he clearly just is spewing garbage all over the forums.
but this trolling post is just to much.. anyone that has read more then 4 posts of him has to realise he has no valid arguments and are trying to hide the fact with posting nonsence as soon as he gets called out on it.

What? I didn't even make any posts. You must be hallucinating.

[Armus]

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=251771

I have to admit I didn't know about that one. Having it 15% of the time < having 400 aad all the time though, imo. And.. does it stack with the aad aura?

[crattey]

I have to admit I didn't know about that one. Having it 15% of the time < having 400 aad all the time though, imo. And.. does it stack with the aad aura?

Aye. But obviously it's rather situational. I have previously stacked it with the NR aura when facing trader/NT/doc heavy opposition, though.

HHaBs are still one of the best items, though. It has no equal for evades items, bar fixer backpieces.

[IHaveHugeNick]

You missed the point. Defenses against physical attacks are relativelive much better from the start. And many profs have great ways of negating or evading these attacks. You mentioned team blockers. Then there is the 400 aad aura as well as a big pile of other nanos that help your def.

There are many items that will let pretty much any prof evade most attacks even from high ar profs. But there is literally no items that add nr. Add to that how some symb sets have almost no NR and you get the picture. There is just very little defence against these debuffs.

And as we are in a team pvp environment there should be similar adds to NR as there has been to other defences.

I'm sorry but what are you smoking?

These days, average Attack Rating on high AR professions is goes from 3.5k AR to more. A lot of professions can't even get nearly as much evades.

Meanwhile average nanoskills for a selfbuffed caster (except NTs) have, are orbiting around 2k, and 2k NR is an amount just about anyone can reach by simply maxing nanoresist and equiping HH@B, with high NR classes often nearly doubling that amount.

So enlighten me HOW are you better protected against physical attacks if anyone can get enough NR to match nanoskills of a caster, as in nano AR=defense, and 1/3 can get twice that much, , targets have twice NR then i have nano_AR.

And that doesn't even begin to cover generic or profession specific removers, inner resitances, or the simple fact roots break faster then i can cast them.

When everyone starts running with 3.5k evades and evade classes start reaching 7k passive defense, then you can say evades have reached the level of protection NR offers.

[IHaveHugeNick]

I have to admit I didn't know about that one. Having it 15% of the time < having 400 aad all the time though, imo. And.. does it stack with the aad aura?

Yeah.

Plus you know, Crat can actually unroot you, well good ones will, heh.

[Armus]

I'm sorry but what are you smoking?

These days, average Attack Rating on high AR professions is goes from 3.5k AR to more. A lot of professions can't even get nearly as much evades.

Meanwhile average nanoskills for a selfbuffed caster (except NTs) have, are orbiting around 2k, and 2k NR is an amount just about anyone can reach by simply maxing nanoresist and equiping HH@B, with high NR classes often nearly doubling that amount..

The high NR classes being 1 class, enf. NT second with alot lower.

When you count attack rating you need to consider skill on specials as well. The end result is alot lower than what you see in your stats window. Even a maxed out soldier with all the shizzle can't really top 2500 fa skill and less burst. Which means the dmg that counts ends up a lil over 3k for a top soldier.

For other profs the overall AR is much lower. As someone posted recently mp, nt, trader and enf (non limber profs) can get 2800-3000 def rating in a normal pvp setup.

Support profs don't even come close to this ofc. They miss on everything except soldier and doc.

Then add in different auras that add massive aad, not just temporarily, special blockers etc and in the end there is on a whole alot more defence against physical attacks.

My argument with crattey was about him claiming that "everyone" can instantly break roots in a number of ways. Not about NR in general.

[crattey]

My argument with crattey was about him claiming that "everyone" can instantly break roots in a number of ways. Not about NR in general.

Do try not to put words in my mouth while I'm still bored and in hardcore posting rage mode..

I said, quite literally, that everyone has some ways of instantly breaking roots, while certain combinations of profession/breed add even more, and that everyone has access to tools that can quickly remove roots.

This is true. You listed some of the methods yourself, actually proving my point.

You, as a soldier, have the least options available to you, that much is true. Unless you're a solitus, most professions can get out of roots a lot easier, and of course they can be solitus on top of that.

To pretend your point of view is the only valid point of view is false. In fact, you're heavily exaggerating the situation by doing so, and you should know this.

I'm really at a loss how I can get that point across. I'll gladly give it another try, but I fear that this will be the last example I give, since it's obvious my talents as an educator are better spent on people who are both willing and open to expand their minds. <3

Viewing the root 'situation' purely from your soldier point of view is akin to viewing the doctor DoT situation purely from the perspective of a crat. We have low'ish NR, low'ish health and no healing worth mentioning. DoTs hurt us more than any other profession.
It's silly however, to claim that DoTs are ruining the game, since professions like enforcers hardly notice them due to stupendous amounts of health paired with absorbs and moderate healing. An enforcer can probably outheal just DoTs all day long, whereas they can kill a crat pretty fast.

It's a situation where a specific offensive ability hurts especially bad because one specific profession has a wide open gap in their defensive abilities regarding this ability.

However, it's just not very sensible to demand this ability gets removed because it's OPd, when it's clearly not.

[IHaveHugeNick]

You, as a soldier, have the least options available to you, that much is true. .

That's actually not true at all.

That thing even removes SB root.

Engineers have it worse then anybody when it comes to CC.

[crattey]

That's actually not true at all.

That thing even removes SB root.

Hah, forgot about that.

/thread closed.

[howlin]

We were talking about NR. How would teaming a crat improve my NR?

You were talking about 400 aad from crat aura but ignoring the fact that crat auras buff AAO too.

[Mekh]

That's actually not true at all.

That thing even removes SB root.

Engineers have it worse then anybody when it comes to CC.

300 seconds cool down though.... and only 15 seconds immunity.

[howlin]

300 seconds cool down though.... and only 15 seconds immunity.

Yeah, removes roots.

[Mekh]

Yeah, removes roots.

It does?
It looks like it only adds immunity here at least.

Compared to FM's that reduces their duration.

That ring looks more like it have similar effects to MotR.


Is the removal somehow built in to it invisibly, or...?

[Avari]

I don't see roots as a problem. Playing a profession that can't rely on NR due to fighting 50% offense and doesn't have any sort of immunity or innate resistance has never left me too bothered with roots. Get a load of FM stims and some rods from ToTW/IS and you're good to go. ****e it up with MotR whenever you feel like it.

Saying that I don't see roots as a problem isn't the same as saying they haven't caused my death though. Roots do have an effect, it's just not an effect I consider imbalanced in any way.

[Armus]

I don't see roots as a problem. Playing a profession that can't rely on NR due to fighting 50% offense and doesn't have any sort of immunity or innate resistance has never left me too bothered with roots. Get a load of FM stims and some rods from ToTW/IS and you're good to go. ****e it up with MotR whenever you feel like it.

Saying that I don't see roots as a problem isn't the same as saying they haven't caused my death though. Roots do have an effect, it's just not an effect I consider imbalanced in any way.

That's because you have a defense (unlimited heals) that isn't time base like ams or coon or dof. If a fixer roots you, you will be 100% hp when he or she comes back. There is just no point in rooting you in a 1 vs 1 situation unless they are running from you.

[Mekh]

I don't see roots as a problem. Playing a profession that can't rely on NR due to fighting 50% offense and doesn't have any sort of immunity or innate resistance has never left me too bothered with roots. Get a load of FM stims and some rods from ToTW/IS and you're good to go. ****e it up with MotR whenever you feel like it.

Saying that I don't see roots as a problem isn't the same as saying they haven't caused my death though. Roots do have an effect, it's just not an effect I consider imbalanced in any way.

Specifically with regard to roots/snares:
It makes a world of difference whether your a Doctor with heals and ranged UBT, nukes, AS/Burst/Fling or if your a keeper/Shade...

On my Doc roots and snares are a minor annoyance, but on my keeper and shade they are "disablers" in comparison.

[IHaveHugeNick]

It does?
It looks like it only adds immunity here at least.

Compared to FM's that reduces their duration.

That ring looks more like it have similar effects to MotR.


Is the removal somehow built in to it invisibly, or...?

It removes. Don't ask me how but it does. Same with Agent bail out nanos.

[Avari]

That's because you have a defense (unlimited heals) that isn't time base like ams or coon or dof. If a fixer roots you, you will be 100% hp when he or she comes back. There is just no point in rooting you in a 1 vs 1 situation unless they are running from you.

1v1

In groups you can be damn sure that roots are worse to me than they are to a soldier. If I'm rooted it means I can't get out of LoS and I have to soak up every single special people throw at me, and I can tell you, that every opponent in sight will be hitting me before anything else as soon as they see the first red nano effects go off on their screen.

It's totally besides the point also, seeing how little time it takes to remove a root with FM stims and/or a rod. The amount of hits it takes to kill a soldier will also surely break the root sooner rather than later in most cases. Soldiers inabilty to counter debuffs is a needed disadvantage to counter the amounts of damage they can dish out while being protected by >75% reflect 66% of the time.

[Armus]

15 seconds let's you pop 4 free movements. Please point out to me which 8 minute root you find most annoying..

A ql 275 FM removes 120 secs of a root.

That means you can either click 3 times to clear it.

OR you click 2 times and wait the remaining 40 seconds.

YOU CHOOSE. But either way it takes at least 3 clicks to get out of a root, with 275 fm's, that's a minimum of 10 secs+execution time.

And I'm ignoring the simple fact that some professions are vulnerable to CC, so it's generally not a good idea to go up against a CC profession solo. I realize people like to have the best of everything, but getting killed in PvP is a rather natural thing to occur.

So what do to when face with said prof with cc (that's 5 profs out of 14 btw, not counting fears and the perk root mp's have) ?

Run? Good one!