Can devs get the balance right without spending a lot of time in-game pvping ?

[Drakeep]

Maybe i am alone on this since i can't remember someone talking about this before in the forums, or maybe i didn t pay attention.

I feel that AO's pvp is fairly complex. I would tend to think that a player can only master a few of the professions available, maybe 2 or 3, but having 3 fully twinked pvping toon @ 220 is a huge time sink (best gear available, plus eventually alternative setup gear to hotswap depending the opponent/situation/taste of the day, best tools in the inventory, grafts, usable ring, all this stuff).

Exemple : i play a NT, i am confident enough to say that i know exactly what gonna happens in 90% of the pvp situation in which my toon might be involved, especially when it come to 1 vs 1, and based on that i can extrapolate what gonna happens when i m facing 2 different profession, or 3, etc. But i have limited knowledge of how, say, a trader, will interact with a MA.

As a consequence i don't think feedbacks & ideas posted on forums should be taken seriously by the devs. What is posted might be honest, from time to time, beside the trollage/lobbying that happens most of the time, but this honest player might as well be ignorant of the global situation.

On top of that, FC is willing to modify a lot of core game mechanics. The deepest the mechanics is, the wider the consequences it might have on a given pvp scenario, the more complex it is to extrapolate what the end result will be - the final balance.

Problem is, i don't think dev play the game, and specially the pvp aspect of it, nearly enough to have an unbiased opinion of what really need to be balanced.

They should be able to roll any toon, at any level they want, with the level of gear they wish (regular PvM gear, twinked, hardcore twinked), trying the different setups player try emselves (full AR NT ? full evade NT ? nr2 ? etc).

I really don't think you can have it right without trying stuff in game.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Complexity of PvP in AO or complexity of AO in general is a pure urban myth people made up to feel better about playing the game.

Sure the skill system and equiping stuff may be sometimes complicated.

Reality is mechanics are pretty generic, so are the professions, diversity in setups is basically nonexistant.: a lot of professions is using literally exactly the same items in many slots, and within the professions usually there is 1-2 cookie cutter setups everybody is using. If creative players figure out something new which is more effective there is a whole gang moving towards it shortly after.

As for the learning curve, "mastering" the profession by any competent player who's been around long enough, is done within 30 minutes on level acceptable for inf missions, couple of days for more challenging PvM encounters, and couple of weeks max for PvP.

If players can do it, devs can do it.

Last but not least, the reason i'm moderately optimistic about the whole thing, is exactly because they adressed most of ongoing problems and flawed mechanics that run deep under the hood and, while usually not related to any specific profession, make the game seem crappier balanced then it really is.

[Drakeep]

"mastering" the profession by any competent player who's been around long enough, is done within 30 minutes on level acceptable for inf missions, couple of days for more challenging PvM encounters, and couple of weeks max for PvP."

Yeah actually i was talking exclusivly pvp.

General idea was to get a single dev to play all the profession (in PvP) at the various lvl they are most commonly used (tl5 and 220 probably, i dunno much about lowbie pvp), using the 1 or 2 cookie cutter setup that exists (even 2 setup per prof is a lot for a single guy to handle), and give him 2 months so he can get a honest idea of the situation.

[Mostadio]

That's pretty much the purpose of the professionals program. The ones who are absolutely best at their professions giving input on the flaws and weaknesses of their profession and their opponents. Unfortunately, due to bias and the existence of weak people filling the slots, or the unwillingness/inability of FC to fix some things.. it just doesn't get done.

To focus on the developers, it's been mentioned that each one of them was an ordinary player previous to their employment by FC. However, they were undoubtedly drafted for their ability to code, not their pvp prowess or because they were an awesome tank. And the sense of bias is still blatant even among the developers.

So in essence.. even if the devs were able to pwn anyone on any toon... I'm sure they'd still have their pet projects and favorite profs and it would be apparent in the game.

[Avari]

As for the learning curve, "mastering" the profession by any competent player who's been around long enough, is done within 30 minutes on level acceptable for inf missions, couple of days for more challenging PvM encounters, and couple of weeks max for PvP.

Certain professions are easier to play than others, but the majority takes experience and dedication to utilize to their full extent. I'll bet you just about anything that no one can play any profession as well in PvP within a month as someone who's played it a year. It's all about having the experience to adapt to unique situations, and knowing your limits. Often it's about judging in a very short time whether you can actually survive going fully into a fight, if you have to hit and run, or just get the hell out of there. Often you'll only have a second or two to decide, and the experienced player will always be more succesfull at this.

The ones who are absolutely best at their professions giving input on the flaws and weaknesses of their profession and their opponents.

As much as I respect the professionals this is hardly the case. Fortunately they're aware of this too, and they rely on their community to help with feedback to FC.