Engineer Cyberdeck

[Technogen]

First off, this is my vision of the item(s) not the dev's I havnt seen their ideas for it yet but I thought I would get this out to everyone to see how the rest of you like it before presenting it to the devs. My biggest thing is it's that it does not unbalance the total play style, so people can continue to play with a +damage system or the +pet damage system.

One more thing I have to note is that as of right now my design does give an advantage to pistol users over grenade users, I am not sure how to balance that out beyond "Cyberdeck Grenades" but that still gives an advantage to pistol users, maybe require a grenade weapon equipped to use them.

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Off Hand Weapon

This is pretty much a glove, much like the NT's cyberdeck in looks. It has 2 modes, melee and range, using a screw driver on it switch it between them. It has very low requirements making it able to be equipped from TL2 up. It's damage is "low" and attack skill is based on a Tradeskill vs Dodge, like the other TS weapons this would make it useful vs high evade professions. The weapon itself has no abilities attached to it, instead it's granted abilities though the use of self nanos.

Two Handed Weapon

This weapon is one of the Tradeskill class weapons; weapons with low damage and a debuff. The Cyberdeck weapon however does not have a built in debuff, it requires the user to chose which debuff that they are going to use. This weapon is a leveling weapon, meaning that its quality level will go up depending on the amount of skill the player using it has. This weapon also has the unique ability to gain specials/lose special attacks. The player can add the specials fling, burst, fa, and AS to this weapon by using a screwdriver on it. Due to the weapon's poor damage these would not hit for anywhere near cap damage.

Nanos

These are the effect modifiers, I have not come up with all of the effects but there could be more then I have listed.

Snare - This one makes the target more accetable to our pet's aoe snare.
MB Help - This one creates a sort of feedback system that makes the pet hitting the target cast master's bidding more often.


Skill vs Effect land rate and strength.

One thing about these abilities is they all rely on a skill to help them. So it would be something like this for say the snare ability.
If QTF = 100 Proc chance = 10% (meaning it'll have a 10% chance of landing the snare effect on the target)
If QTF = 101 Proc Change = 11%
And so on until 1k QTF (whcih would require IP in QTF)

After 100% land rate it would switch over to duration, which would make the effect stay on the target longer, thus giving the pets a higher chance of hitting the target.

[Makihran]

You say in the other thread to consider it like the doc pistols but then in this thread you say it should be 1-1 damage. If it were truly like doc pistols it would have as good damage as we've got offhand now, good modifiers, and enable buffs/pet stuff/nukes/whatever.

So, which is it? Doc pistol-ish or junk?

[Technogen]

I said doc like pistols in design.

Take note though that docs only damage comes from pistols, and small dots, while engineer has 2 large damage sources that can attack for them.

I don't know about you but I'm not exactly lacking damage on killing things. If I had a system where I could make my pets do more damage to whatever they are attacking I would be willing to sacrifice some of my personal damage. (Which oddly enough would also make our pets tank better in PvM)

[Towerblock]

I would like to throw this on the table. I don't like what I am seeing thus far. It's not enough.

Get rid of the offensive auras. I'd rather have spamability on some of our less used tools. Single target blind. Single target snare. Single target uber pet heal. Single target pet re-animation. Single target robotic pet/mob only nuke. ( eat that mister crat bot!) Single target reflect rippers. Single target shieldAC rippers. Single target AC debuffs. The ability to heal other engi pets. MONKEYWRENCHING!

Oh, here is another lovely I've considered, but I highly doubt will ever make it into game. For tradeskills engis, give them the ability to create small fortifications. Like, a 2 second small wall to hide behind. Give it a cooldown of like.. 3 minutes or something. I've always considered Engineers to be the fort builders. Where an engi stands, is where the castle is built. I think that we would be wasting an opportunity to expand the overall scope of what an engineer actually is.

Engineers IRL aren't just there to churn out part of weapon and armour.. they create structures, use physics, and have insight into the workings of energies and motion. Capitalize on that, instead of pushing the bar of current mediocrity.

[Makihran]

Take note though that docs only damage comes from pistols, and small dots, while engineer has 2 large damage sources that can attack for them.

I don't know about you but I'm not exactly lacking damage on killing things. If I had a system where I could make my pets do more damage to whatever they are attacking I would be willing to sacrifice some of my personal damage. (Which oddly enough would also make our pets tank better in PvM)

And engineers only get heals from a couple perks and stims. How does this change the fact that we shouldn't settle on 1-1(1) piece of junk for an offhand weapon to enable pets to be more effective?

Engineers have two large damage sources that have a fetish for wall-humping, tripping on ledges, being reduced to nothingness in pvp by kiting, calms, roots, snares, and init debuffs. If I had any faith that new pets would be able to find their targets and overcome debuffs to be effective I might consider this idea valid. But from experience comes wisdom and I have little (read: nearly no) faith left that pets will ever be as effective or reliable as damage coming from a weapon or nuke. Trading reliable damage for "maybe if there's no pebbles in the way" damage doesn't sound like a fair trade to me.

I would like to throw this on the table. I don't like what I am seeing thus far. It's not enough.

Get rid of the offensive auras. I'd rather have spamability on some of our less used tools. Single target blind. Single target snare. Single target uber pet heal. Single target pet re-animation. Single target robotic pet/mob only nuke. ( eat that mister crat bot!) Single target reflect rippers. Single target shieldAC rippers. Single target AC debuffs. The ability to heal other engi pets. MONKEYWRENCHING!

Either this or vastly increase the tick rate and radius of auras and allow several to be used at once.

[Technogen]

Then quite honestly, why do you play engineer if you don't want to use pets?

I'm sorry you're the first I'm taking it out on but this whole damn view that pets are pointless makes everyone who says it look rather odd to me. As you're playing a profession you dont want to use the main toolset for. I have no problem controlling my pets in both PvM and PvP, the changes the dev team has made to pets lately has greatly improved their pathing ability. If you can't stand engineer, and don't feel you have enough damage from your weapons then WHY are you playing engineer. Go play another profession like soldier or agent, they are weapon based professions that do not have to worry about pets.

[Towerblock]

Then quite honestly, why do you play engineer if you don't want to use pets?

I'm sorry you're the first I'm taking it out on but this whole damn view that pets are pointless makes everyone who says it look like an idiot.

I'm not trolling you. I am all for updated/improved/utilitarian pets. But if our pets are so awesome, why would we need a cyberdeck?

[Technogen]

That wasnt really directed at just you Bubbacrush, and really I should remove that idiots part because I dont feel that everyone is an idiot, if I did I wouldnt talk on these forums in the 1st place. But it just baffles my mind how people can completely disregard our pets so much.

I did just a quit survey of those that were online with me and 3 of the 5 used a remod in PvP, and the 3 that used the remod said they were mostly happy with PvP, while those that did not were annoyed by the current pvp state.

So, honestly I'm just baffled as to why people do not want our pets enhanced when we are a pet profession.

But if our pets are so awesome, why would we need a cyberdeck?

Because the same reason our damage needs to be greater or our reflects more useful or our debuffs more useful, while they are nice and effected a majority of the time they are not effective all of the time.

[Makihran]

Then quite honestly, why do you play engineer if you don't want to use pets?

I'm sorry you're the first I'm taking it out on but this whole damn view that pets are pointless makes everyone who says it look like an idiot. As you're playing a profession you dont want to use the main toolset for. I have no problem controlling my pets in both PvM and PvP, the changes the dev team has made to pets lately has greatly improved their pathing ability. If you can't stand engineer, and don't feel you have enough damage from your weapons then WHY are you playing engineer. Go play another profession like soldier or agent, they are weapon based professions that do not have to worry about pets.

You misunderstand me. I want our pets to be good. I want them to be our main tool. But they aren't. The haven't been for a long, long time. There is a reason I spent so much effort getting my personal damage to where it is ... because our pets just don't cut it. If it's true, if they are improved enough, I'll relent and agree that a cyberdeck might be a fair enough option.

And, no offense, but I find it very hard to believe that you are so vastly better at playing your engineer than I am, or than most of the rest of engineers I talk to or read on these forums, that you never have trouble with pets being kited, or run into ledges, or stuck on stairs, or ubted, or snared, or charmed, or alphaed.

Again, if I had a shred of faith left that engineers (and even more generally, all pet users) would get equitable treatment I'd be for it. But as someone once said, "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — You can't get fooled again."

And I'm not the only one ...

It looks to me, here, that you're asking for a huge token of faith on our part. I am not sure this is the best place to be asking for that. Granted, things need to change.. but realize that Engineers are the battered wives of the AO world. It'll be a tough job to get back into our pants again.

[Cdogg421]

wtf stop trying to turn us into another profession. sacrifice damage to make pets better? MP anyone? cyber deck? this is just a retarded option and i dont see how it fits the engie at all.

I did like bubba's idea of constructing a fort that would give us a few seconds of protection, but i would like to add onto it maybe making it 5-10 seconds in duration and when the engie enters the fort (oh just thought of a name, panic box) the bots go into a over drive mode which enables a speed and AR boost, but criples the bots for 60 seconds after the over drive.

also why not expand our deployable items like the jamming tower. i would love to see some other towers like healing conduits and even a EMP field generator (disables all electronics such as mechs/bots/ect in a small area, low hp tho so its not over powered)

but most of all i want to see alot of nade love. to many professions use pistols and i would like my engie to be able to be different while still being able to do alot of damage.

[Towerblock]

I meant 2 seconds to build. Give it some meaningful duration, with a 3 minute lockout. But I am not a professional, and only if this particular idea gets any popularity will I seriously consider a new thread. For now, the cyberdeck is an interesting idea... but I am skeptical.

[Technogen]

Ok, so I'm going to change the 1st post because people are freaking out over something I said is not set in stone.

The offhand weapon should be LOW damage, you are gaining damage from pets, and from your main hand weapon.

[Xyphos]

I just want to throw my two-cents in there, but if we're going to get a cyberdeck unless there is some kind of distinction, we'll be mistaken for an NT.
perhaps the cyberdeck could look like a big monkey wrench?
/flameshield on

[Technogen]

Yeah it wont look like the NT cyberdeck, I said "glove" to give an idea of what I meant as a pistol didnt really make much sense to me in that spot.

[Kintaii]

Something I really should start clearing up a bit - When we talk about adding a "cyberdeck" to certain professions, we mean in a "basic intent" form; not necessarily the form that the current NT cyberdeck takes (which may also very well be changing).

The base concept of a "cyberdeck" in the context we talk about it now implies a profession-specific item which is utilized as a weapon (ie: held) and negates or diminishes their weapon-based damage for differing options in other areas; As examples: Increased nuking capabilities, increased attack options for their pets, differing modifiers on nanos being cast, and so on.

So yes - Focus on the core concept, not any current implementations.

[Xyphos]

Something I really should start clearing up a bit - When we talk about adding a "cyberdeck" to certain professions, we mean in a "basic intent" form; not necessicarily the form that the current NT cyberdeck takes (which may also very well be changing).

The base concept of a "cyberdeck" in the context we talk about it now implies a profession-specific item which is utilized as a weapon (ie: held) and negates or diminishes their weapon-based damage for differing options in other areas; As examples: Increased nuking capabilities, increased attack options for their pets, differing modifiers on nanos being cast, and so on.

So yes - Focus on the core concept, not any current implementations.

Ranged pets?
Melee pets with special attacks like FastAttack or Brawl?
Require cyberdeck to cast new pets?
Require cyberdeck to use new pets? - if a trader drains you and the cyberdeck goes OE, will the pets still listen?
Require cyberdeck to cast special buffs on new pets who have large NCUs so you can fit all of the buffs and a possible mis-click or two?
do these buffs add better pathing?
do these buffs prevent a green crat comming along and unbuffing our pets by 'fishing' them? (catch/release)

we can only speculate because we've been on the short-end of the stick for years, things we didn't want, have been dumped on us. we've been forced to change setups, weapon choices and other various things in the past and here we go doing it again.

and while you're reading these forums, remove the target level requirements from our tradeskill buffs. trader maestro don't have level locks, why should we? we're the masters of making things

[MassDebater]

no thanks, nts got ruined by a cyberdeck.

[Towerblock]

Thanks for clearing that up, Kintaii.

I'd say the possibilities there are fairly open. What would the developers feel is a rational extension of this idea?

[Takun]

{Removed.}

I guess personally I find this a little strange.. is this not what the ICC nanodeck thing was suppose to be? Void the fact that it basically turned into a must wear item since it gave us access to all the new nanos and is pretty boss with its mods?

I don't understand why engineers need this when simple perks or pet talent trees would suffice instead. The whole idea here is to be able to give engineers choice in what they want to focus on.. be that (apparently) personal damage, pet damage, nuking(?).

If this turns into something which is basically "oh another item to swap so I can do X" then this concept should be avoided. If having to swap to engineer cyber - X for increased pet healing is required so I can solo something then this is just yet another item I have to carry around in my bags and swap to, to do simple content.

Another problem that strings out of this is if this item is terribly overpowered.. everyone will use it and it will simply be the new must have (see amep), where as if its more so an "rp lol I'm a cyberengineer" then funcom will get scoffed at for more terrible content and we will be exactly where we are now.

If it is truly an option (which we apparently have 0 of at the moment) funcom has the road ahead of them, in proving that they can balance something to actually give our class content flavor instead of make or break items.

[IHaveHugeNick]

I dislike this idea, its far too totemish, not very engineerish, and last but not least, i don't think you guys are even close to realise just how much everyone who is serious about playing this profession came to depend on personal damage rather then on pets.

People here have spend years experimenting with dozens and dozens of various weapon setup in order to maximize personal damage output, be it pvm or pvp one - largely due to the fact that last serious pet update was i-don't-need-to-tell-you how long ago.

The boost to pets would have to be enourmous , to the point of absurd. Not to mention it would have to sum up with other pet supposed upgrades. Honestly i doubt you, or even we, can even come with implementation we could actually see as reasonable.

Plus as much as this may not be constructive, it took 1.5 a year to get MP creation weapons right, and they only made sense because MPs have rich and varied active toolset, which i don't see listed anywhere on these boards , so forgive me but what am i supposed to do after i send the pet to action? Hook up on some pizza?