Please Funcom, stop crippling agents endgame-perks

[Cyberleet]

Should be safe to say FC wanted these perks to land as the damage were, but the concept didn't work.

You can't expect your perks to be reduced in attack time, recharge time, made more available and have their damage damage per minute increased (bar some rare cases) while other damage perks are reduced (crippled) in that department, gaining increased attack time and reduced damage.

I am (recharge is not changed btw), and the reason is that other professions are not agents.

Like shade, evadeclass, I don't think it is intended (and it wasn't per SL-devs) that they should OD agent.

Edit:
You have a great point about support-profs and AS, I want agent steered off the -cost and +nanoinit path.

[XenonDe]

(recharge is not changed btw)

My bad. I remembered a DD perk being cut in half for recharge time, but it was The Shot that was reduced which doesn't do a that much damage.

I still do not understand why you focus on the perk if increased pvm damage is your goal though. They mostly come into play when soloing or when a lot of downtime is between mobs allowing perk to recharge. Over the course of a regular inf misson, the difference between perks now and then is marginal.

A upgraded rifle, damage buffs and similar would have much more effect.

[Cyberleet]

Over the course of a regular inf misson, the difference between perks now and then is marginal.

With Assassin/Infantry/BlackOps/SharpShooter/Conc/Coha/Made the perk-downtime is around 20 secs.

Leveling agents having more perks more often available helps greatly, not marginally.

A upgraded rifle, damage buffs and similar would have much more effect.

We surely need our unique toolset to be effective, but classicly we do the sudden burst-damage above dps.

I absolutely <3 high damage attacks. :>

FC should also be more keen on trying this out without changing damage-values as experience tells us they are more likely to change agentperks should they be too "OP" (hello The Shot) than they are with changing agent perks that is a miserable fail and a suck in a timely fashion.

[Parranoid1]

Should be safe to say FC wanted these perks to land as the damage were, but the concept didn't work.

yes, FC did want them to land with the damage as it was, but they also wanted the perks to have those requirements to land, else they would not have implemented it from the start.

now that they are changing the land requirements, it seems that means has decided that the damage should now be reduced because those requirements have changed...ill go to another hypothetical

a perk has a 30k-50k damage range, it requires some crazy ass stuff to land (couldnt be bothered makin it up). this perk is now being reworked to be very easy to land, say 100% defence check and requires 1 other perk from its line to be running on the target. now, this perk does insane amounts of damage and is now very easy to land, its damage should be reduced for the sake of balance, should it now? for yuor sake, say that this perk belongs to a martial artist, the MA can now land this very large damage perk, way bigger then any perk agents could dream to have, should its damage be reduced because of its now easy to land requirements?

and please, focus on its needing to reduce in damage because of requirements to land, not because MA isnt an agent.

I am (recharge is not changed btw), and the reason is that other professions are not agents.

yep...your just about agent love, thats all, screw other professions because they arnt agents.

Like shade, evadeclass, I don't think it is intended (and it wasn't per SL-devs) that they should OD agent.

you dont think it was intended, but it plainly was, looking at the amount of damage through perks that shades can deal out it is more then obvious that they were intended to OD many, and have done so since their release. post to me somewhere that a pre-SL dev has said that shade is ment to be a non-mass DD profession that is not ment to OD other professions. i doubt you can because ur just plcuking that out of thin air.

[Cyberleet]

focus on its needing to reduce in damage because of requirements to land,

But it doesn't, it's a cosmetic finishing touch without any merit whatsover.

yep...your just about agent love, thats all, screw other professions because they arnt agents.

And what have I said about other professions now?

Is it a reason doctor get healmods and good singleheals, but not agents you think or are they screwing with agents?

you dont think it was intended, but it plainly was,

And someone must get their facts sorted

Blackmane from Dev-Chat:
NT (nukes), agent, MA (fist), shade, adventuer/soldier, keeper

[Ebondevil]

Blackmane from Dev-Chat:
NT (nukes), agent, MA (fist), shade, adventuer/soldier, keeper

If I recall correctly, the NT was for spike damage and the Agent was for Damage over time.

[Cyberleet]

If I recall correctly, the NT was for spike damage and the Agent was for Damage over time.

That has never been a part of the agent-design, it has always been godly short-time damage.

Not that NT's isn't about high damage, spiky or not...this is actually not the first time players predict FC's adjusting of other, more robust and defensive classes, damage and alpha is intended to affect agent either.

Blackmane:

The agent will be at the top of the damage range after SL.

No other ranged profession will come close, and only the MA will come anywhere close to it (and only when using fists).

The NT will be on the same level as the agent when using nukes (slightly above because they can't sustain it for long periods of time), but the agent is all about damage in SL.

If The crippling of Agent Endgame-perks is the "rebalancing" so far I am NOT impressed

[Parranoid1]

ok lets put a different spin on it.

you like godly spike damage, for ganks i assume. well, now you have 2 extra high damage perks that are usable from the start and midway part of the fight, toppled with the shot now from sneak.

this lowers your spike damage how? by giving you more large ended DD perks?

even from this way ur logic seems warped

[Ebondevil]

That has never been a part of the agent-design, it has always been godly short-time damage.

Not that NT's isn't about high damage, spiky or not...this is actually not the first time players predict FC's adjusting of other, more robust and defensive classes, damage and alpha is intended to affect agent either.

Blackmane:

The agent will be at the top of the damage range after SL.

No other ranged profession will come close, and only the MA will come anywhere close to it (and only when using fists).

The NT will be on the same level as the agent when using nukes (slightly above because they can't sustain it for long periods of time), but the agent is all about damage in SL.

I would love to know how you interpret what Blackmane said there cause the only interpretation I can come to is:
That Agents would be the best Damage Dealers in SL, beaten by NT's in the short term but not the long term as NT's won't be able to maintain the high levels of damage over time unlike Agents.

Therefore Agents would have the best damage over time, and NT's would have the best spike damage. It never actually happened like that, and since then the Dev's and Game directors have changed around quite a lot so quoting Blackmanes Old stuff is pretty pointless all told.

So far your arguments have become so convoluted and hypocritical the only conclusion I can draw about your motives, based on this post and others in the past, is that you trying to get Agents nerfed for whatever reason. Nothing else makes sense. Please prove me wrong, but I honestly don't think you can.

P.S. Quoting something that contradicts what you wrote in the same post doesn't particularly help your arguments...

[Cyberleet]

I would love to know how you interpret what Blackmane said there

In relation to the fact that agent is designed for rapid in-and-out strikes? Godly high-damage?

Look into the design of the class.

Aimed Shot vs other specials (statistics) pre-sl and put mob-hp and player-hp into the equation.
Sureshot and consentration - lines.
Toxic Shock.
Massive damage-perks.

This is the design, not that it works accordingly in practice.

Our tools are designed for providing high damage short-term in situtations or building up a strike.

The quote was for the Paranoid poster btw...

So far your arguments have become so convoluted and hypocritical

tbh I think you only got the trolls with you on this one, please eloborate.

the only conclusion I can draw about your motives, based on this post and others in the past, is that you trying to get Agents nerfed for whatever reason. Nothing else makes sense. Please prove me wrong, but I honestly don't think you can.

Who is the one pro-nerf ALL the time!

And I doubt I have the meds for conspiracy-theories but here's a try:

Letah casts Chemical Concoction within your ncu.



I guess we all got our theories tho, here's mine

CH-clanners tries to redefine the class to become something it never was or intended to be!
Therefore they campaign hard against damage and dd-designs and ruin others perk-mechanic ideas, detaunt-ideas or escape-line ideas that goes through by suggesting dd-decrease and whatnot since that doesn't go along with their trendy, OOC and self-centered view of the profession...

oO

Quoting something that contradicts what you wrote in the same post doesn't particularly help your arguments...

That NT was supposed to "be on the same level" as agent doesn't contradict what I posted.

The design and the profession is what it is, assassin in disguise.

well, now you have 2 extra high damage perks that are usable from the start

I really wish we had "high damage perks" but it's nothing in the documentation as I see it.

Infact, "someone" thinks belated perkfixes is an excuse to cripple agent-perks more.

[Parranoid1]

ok lets put a different spin on it.

you like godly spike damage, for ganks i assume. well, now you have 2 extra high damage perks that are usable from the start and midway part of the fight, toppled with the shot now from sneak.

this lowers your spike damage how? by giving you more large ended DD perks?

even from this way ur logic seems warped

your thoughts on this lletah?

[haavarst]

why this thread is still active beats me.. ok agents gonna get their perks fixed and Macrosun promised that agents defence get a fix too.

As a keeper I get jealous just looking at ONE of your perklines as it do more dd then all mine together... agents got all kind of perklines Alien profession/group/SL perofession/group and total dd is insane after they fixed the evadecheck... I mean.. another 80% def check perkline aint exactly what we want, but agents seem to get it. Still you want the perk that could do 18k on a leet to do 18k inn pvm? or pvp (don`t care).

Keepers are supposed to be your nemesis. Do you know how OP keepers would be if we are supposed to keep up with you?

[Ebondevil]

In relation to the fact that agent is designed for rapid in-and-out strikes? Godly high-damage?

Look into the design of the class.

Aimed Shot vs other specials (statistics) pre-sl and put mob-hp and player-hp into the equation.
Sureshot and consentration - lines.
Toxic Shock.
Massive damage-perks.

This is the design, not that it works accordingly in practice.

What you quoted from blackmane does not give any indication that we should be a Spike damage profession but the top DD in the long term.

The much Faster Aimed Shot recycle on the Perennium Sniper is a very good indication of that, making it easy for Agents to repeatedly use Aimed Shot in quick succession on mobs that would, at SL's release, die quickly.

The Concentration and Sureshot lines were added in Pre-SL and give to Agents as compensation for loosing access to Universal Vulnerability Compendium when it was taken out of the FP'able toolset, and made self only for Martial Artists, somewhat a moot point to bring them into a post SL arguments about damage and Agent design.

The Huge damage increase on the nanos, particularly on the Harm and Shock lines, as well as the Detaunts you love so much, are also a good indication that Agents were intended to be a High damage over time profession, mitigating the aggro from the damage with the detaunts.

Toxic Shock, it's basically amounts to a damage over time, becoming more effectively the longer the Agents shoots regulars.

But things didn't work out like that in the long run.

After SL's release things went badly wrong for Agents, Mob HP was drastically increasing meaning the faster reuse of Aimed Shot was no longer a good means of providing constant damage over time. And the constant addition of weapons AI era and later that did not support the toolset Agents had for damage, ended up relegating us to one of the worst damage over time professions.

tbh I think you only got the trolls with you on this one, please eloborate.

Who is the one pro-nerf ALL the time!

You, for constantly asking for our Detaunt toolset to get improved, which Agents currently have no use for in Solo PvM, Team PvM or any kind of PvP.

You for focusing on what amounts to an insignificant reduction in Agent damage, arguing for Agents to get what amounts to more spike damage when it seems to be rather pointless as Spike damage seems to be on the way out, completely ignoring all the improvements the perks have gotten and sounding very greedy in the process.

You who seems to want Agents to remain in the rut they've been in for years.

Certainly not me who's been arguing for significant damage increases to core parts of our toolset for years, as well as arguing for the discontinued but unique aspects of our toolset to be improved.

CH-clanners tries to redefine the class to become something it never was or intended to be! Therefore they campaign hard against damage and dd-designs or ruin others perk-mechanic or escape-line ideas that goes through by suggesting dd-decrease since that doesn't go along with their trendy and self-centered view of the profession... oO

Well I'm not one of those CH clanners, I've campaigned hard for Mimic to get improvements so other Mimic professions can be of use, reducing the Agents reliance on Mimic doc and CH. I've campaigned hard for Agents to get better weapons to give Agents a better damage output. I've campaigned hard for our perks to get fixed so they can actually be used in PvM more reliably. I've campaigned hard for the Perks we have to get their execution times sped up to be comparable to the execution speeds of other professions perks instead of averaging in at over 4 seconds execution time. In fact all the good things happening to the Agent perks I campaigned hard for because Agents wanted the changes to be made, and yet you focus on some negligible damage loss.

You on the other hand have campaigned for our Detaunts, to get stronger, when really the only detaunt of any use currently is an AoE detaunt to remove CH aggro.

You say others campaign for a DD decrease, and yet you're the only person I've seen actually suggest that it should happen. Though to be honest that suggestion makes some sense.

You for some reason are fussed about what amounts to 2% of an Agents damage over time output, and you keep repeating the same old arguments, you even ignore the ammunition I suggested which you could have provided more ammunition for your standpoint because you're so set on your flawed arguments which seem to be failing to persuade people to your point of view.

You want something, namely more damage on the perks, you therefore need to provide Arguments which will convince people that these perks need more damage, something you seem to have so far failed to do. Provide some more convincing arguments instead of repeating the same old tired ones which don't seem to be working.

I'm not pro-nerf, I just want you to convince me that you are right and that the damage loss on these perks is significant, which honestly it doesn't seem to be to me.

[Anarrina]

After six pages, I haven't seen any new arguments from either side since about page two. I think this dead horse has been thoroughly flogged.