Acrobat Rework

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Yes Shades have access to Careful in Battle.



You couldn't be more wrong here, if you actually tried. Crats are -the- profession that rely -solely- on evades/aad for -any- damage mitigation WHATSOEVER. Moreso than Fixers, MAs or Shades. Since Fixers have HoTs, MAs have heals and Shades have an absorb item that's profession specific as well as SHD.

ok.

You're being jaded by your TL5 experiences. Keepers have excellent and toolset supported evade-clsc. If you want to say "well that's only one of the evades" then you better remove Shades from your list, as their dodge/duck sucks as much as Keeper's does, only difference between the two is Acrobat.

keeper's don't have any evade perk support, so, in my categorical response, they certainly are not a main evade prof. Keepers also have several tools which do not require evades. The difference between shades and keepers is acrobat and CiB. Which is exactly what I'm categorically defining evade classes with.

Edit: I'm far from jaded by my TL5 experiences. In many cases when I setup for evades, I can run an entire round of BS without even being remotely close to threatened, if no (nemesis) profs are present. this of course is ridiculously offset by the absolute hammering I take by ranged profs/NT's/traders/agents/advy's/enforcers

[Hacre]

keeper's don't have any evade perk support, so, in my categorical response, they certainly are not a main evade prof. Keepers also have several tools which do not require evades. The difference between shades and keepers is acrobat and CiB. Which is exactly what I'm categorically defining evade classes with.

Edit: I'm far from jaded by my TL5 experiences. In many cases when I setup for evades, I can run an entire round of BS without even being remotely close to threatened, if no (nemesis) profs are present. this of course is ridiculously offset by the absolute hammering I take by ranged profs/NT's/traders/agents/advy's/enforcers

But keepers do have evade buff support, a bonus to evade-clsc as well as an entire perkline that buffs evades. Not to mention a whole line of aad auras. As well as evade procs.

You can't just define "evade profession" by one categorical statement, ie, "anyone with Acrobat is an evade profession" or "anyone with acrobat and CiB is an evade profession" etc. Evade professions, are professions which rely heavily on evades to mitigate their damage, with or without other secondary tools to help with that damage should it bypass evades.

Adventurers aren't an "evade profession" where Keepers are, because on top of Acrobat, cocoon and regrowth Adventurers also have decent on demand healing whereas Keepers do not, for example. The tools a Keeper has access to, assist in the mitigation of damage should evades fail them, but they are finite, due to perk cooldowns.

In fact, as far as scaling goes, only Shades are let down. If you take a close look at non Advies that are "evade professions", the lesser their evades, the better their secondary damage mitigation tools are. Fixers are top of the tree, they just have HoTs and no absorbs. MAs are arguably next, they have an OKish heal nano with a long recharge, arguably better than HoTs (ignoring low HP stuff), Shades kinda get screwed because of SHD being a lame HoT and a long cooldown absorb item. Then there's Keepers, standing Evade-Clsc comparable with MAs, but worse dodge/duck, so heal perks/cocoon.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

But keepers do have evade buff support, a bonus to evade-clsc as well as an entire perkline that buffs evades. Not to mention a whole line of aad auras. As well as evade procs.

You can't just define "evade profession" by one categorical statement,

Yes I can. I just did. It's arguable, of course

ie, "anyone with Acrobat is an evade profession" or "anyone with acrobat and CiB is an evade profession" etc. Evade professions, are professions which rely heavily on evades to mitigate their damage, with or without other secondary tools to help with that damage should it bypass evades.

Yes, well that is the point.
If you want keepers to be a "main" evade profession I'd say they need to give up coccoon for something, I mean, if keepers are an evade profession, AND they have coccoon, why aren't they as powerful as advys? advy's might be an evade prof with coon, and shiz! look at them! on top of the world, as always.. pff. If keepers are an evade profession, we need acrobat, or a WAY WAY better method of perk support than we currently have.

Adventurers aren't an "evade profession" where Keepers are, because on top of Acrobat, cocoon and regrowth Adventurers also have decent on demand healing whereas Keepers do not, for example. The tools a Keeper has access to, assist in the mitigation of damage should evades fail them, but they are finite, due to perk cooldowns.

Good, I agree, Advy's require a significant nerf, but, lord knows every single dev plays one, which is pretty much like asking gatester which prof needs a nerf, "all of them! except the ones I play!"

In fact, as far as scaling goes, only Shades are let down. If you take a close look at non Advies that are "evade professions", the lesser their evades, the better their secondary damage mitigation tools are. Fixers are top of the tree, they just have HoTs and no absorbs. MAs are arguably next, they have an OKish heal nano with a long recharge, arguably better than HoTs (ignoring low HP stuff), Shades kinda get screwed because of SHD being a lame HoT and a long cooldown absorb item. Then there's Keepers, standing Evade-Clsc comparable with MAs, but worse dodge/duck, so heal perks/cocoon.

yea. SHD could probably use a rework, but, whatever, that damn coon they have is stupid. If advies only had hots, I could tolerate their perk defences.

[Hacre]

Yes I can. I just did. It's arguable, of course

The fact that it's arguable, means you cannot.

Yes, well that is the point.
If you want keepers to be a "main" evade profession I'd say they need to give up coccoon for something, I mean, if keepers are an evade profession, AND they have coccoon, why aren't they as powerful as advys? advy's might be an evade prof with coon, and shiz! look at them! on top of the world, as always.. pff. If keepers are an evade profession, we need acrobat, or a WAY WAY better method of perk support than we currently have.

Keepers should only give up coon for something, if that something is Acrobat. Since absorb changes, Cocoon only comes into place vs ranged professions, which Keepers are weak against, which makes Cocoon mediocre at best. Therefore it's fine being in the toolset, as it stands. Because we don't have acrobat to make those FAs miss before they get to challenge our absorbs.

yea. SHD could probably use a rework, but, whatever, that damn coon they have is stupid. If advies only had hots, I could tolerate their perk defences.

What's so stupid about the coon that Shades have? It's no more stupid than NM coon, which isn't stupid, is only 5k and is broken through pretty easily given the fact that perks now do the same damage as your primary weapon.

Every profession needs one or two primary defences. The only profession in my mind that breaks this rule is Adventurers, because they have perk heals, perk absorbs, perk evades AND healing on demand via nanos. Everyone else is pretty well balanced.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

The fact that it's arguable, means you cannot.

too late!

Keepers should only give up coon for something, if that something is Acrobat. Since absorb changes, Cocoon only comes into place vs ranged professions, which Keepers are weak against, which makes Cocoon mediocre at best. Therefore it's fine being in the toolset, as it stands. Because we don't have acrobat to make those FAs miss before they get to challenge our absorbs.

All I know is that keepers have high static evades + procs and coon, and perk heals, and advy's have acrobat, coon and nano heals

REALISTICALLY, these two profs should be approximately equal, yet, how in hell are keepers at the bottom of the PVP pole, and advies a world ahead? It is mind boggling that two profs that have an approximately conceptually equal defensive system, should have that far varying experiences in PVP. maybe keepers should get a 11s AS on 2he, and 80% checks on normals/fasta ttack and all perks.

What's so stupid about the coon that Shades have? It's no more stupid than NM coon, which isn't stupid, is only 5k and is broken through pretty easily given the fact that perks now do the same damage as your primary weapon.
.

I dunno, brainfart. Maybe it's not stupid. I'm at work, trying ot dodge crazy eyes.

Every profession needs one or two primary defences. The only profession in my mind that breaks this rule is Adventurers, because they have perk heals, perk absorbs, perk evades AND healing on demand via nanos. Everyone else is pretty well balanced.

Ya, we all agree, advies are stupid. And need heavy handed nerfs. like I said, if advies had healing like fixers, IE hots, I'd be happy. let them run away and heal. but screw them and their stupid "I'll just coon+CH"

[Hacre]

REALISTICALLY, these two profs should be approximately equal, yet, how in hell are keepers at the bottom of the PVP pole, and advies a world ahead? It is mind boggling that two profs that have an approximately conceptually equal defensive system, should have that far varying experiences in PVP. maybe keepers should get a 11s AS on 2he, and 80% checks on normals/fasta ttack and all perks.

Because Advies have good on demand healing, Keepers do not. That is the main difference. There is no "omg, all my perk heals are down" for an Adventurer, because 4.9s after they last healed with BoL, they can say "hey I can heal again".

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I hate advies.

I stopped playing mine because everything felt too easy. Even with a mish mash setup of strong/ mystical force/ whatever, and a couple 300 axes and it's just godmode, neverdie, instapox all pvm.

I had a horrible experience trying to defend some QL 200 towers from doccharm though.