Constant Barrage is the most OP nano ingame.

[X-Styx-X]

a full defensive NT have 2.5k AR yeah (and 3k def)

NO at TL7 everyone can easily get 2k+ NR.
with alot of work they can get 2.5k (most will have to sacrifice alot to get to that point, that will be Off or def or both.)
3k+ only enforcers can reach.

NT would need to work on his AR, instead to ignore it as of today with CB and IU at hand.

Yep to get 3K ish nr people might have to nerf them selves in some area's or visit the doc for some lub
for a nt to get 3K ar he would lose allmost all his Deff
want to be able to get high nr withoud loseing stuff ?

NT's do work on AR , i myself am a AR nt cuz i never liked the Def playstyle and i know more nt's here on rk2 that focus on AR.

u want a Nt to have to focus on AR and Def at the same time

why only Nt ?

i havn't seen a single engi that actualy worked on his deff (they have blockers and coon so don't need too)
or Doc's with Deff ...
or solds ...
and trader , they don't have to work on AR or nanoskills ... just stack some drains, i'm casting nanites @31 so doubt a tl7 has to "work" for it

why ? they have a nano that makes Deff un-needed
AAD/evades/NR not being on ur alphas isn't a excuse , 300 custom imps are ingame too

[lazarus]

Yep to get 3K ish nr people might have to nerf them selves in some area's
for a nt to get 3K ar he would lose allmost all his Deff
want to be able to get high nr withoud loseing stuff ?

enf can reach 3k yes
Only docs can get 3k by going NR1
Rest need to go NR2 to reach 3k

NT's do work on AR , i myself am a AR nt cuz i never liked the Def playstyle and i know more nt's here on rk2 that focus on AR.

So what are your AR?...

u want a Nt to have to focus on AR and Def at the same time

why only Nt ?

lol what?.. it seems you have played your NT way to long to know that every other profession NEED to work on his AR and Def, and it's a balance of both. if you want more def ur AR go down, and the other way around.

Nt have automatic 2k+ AR. that is very close to what people have in NR. (basic)

so it's not like NT have a hard time working on landing stuff. so they can total focus on defense as they have CB to debuff people to land stuff, and they have IU that only have 50% check.

i havn't seen a single engi that actualy worked on his deff (they have blockers and coon so don't need too)
or Doc's with Deff ...
or solds ...

why ? they have a nano that makes Deff un-needed

it's funny that you name the 3 professions that have the lowest evades in the game. (that is a hint on why they dont depend on def)

AAD/evades/NR not being on ur alphas isn't a excuse , 300 custom imps are ingame too

Funny the engineer is the professions that use custom imps the most

[navycut]

Yep to get 3K ish nr people might have to nerf them selves in some area's or visit the doc for some lub
for a nt to get 3K ar he would lose allmost all his Deff
want to be able to get high nr withoud loseing stuff ?

NT's do work on AR , i myself am a AR nt cuz i never liked the Def playstyle and i know more nt's here on rk2 that focus on AR.

u want a Nt to have to focus on AR and Def at the same time

why only Nt ?

i havn't seen a single engi that actualy worked on his deff (they have blockers and coon so don't need too)
or Doc's with Deff ...
or solds ...
and trader , they don't have to work on AR or nanoskills ... just stack some drains, i'm casting nanites @31 so doubt a tl7 has to "work" for it

why ? they have a nano that makes Deff un-needed
AAD/evades/NR not being on ur alphas isn't a excuse , 300 custom imps are ingame too

You are pretty clueless about pvp outside your proffession.

[Hacre]

and NT can have 3k def in some evades, just because they dont need to work on the AR, and that is because of CB and IU.

I'm sick of this fallacy.

Even evade setup NTs have to worry about AR. If I perk NR1 for mass PvP or there's a lot of other casters on the BS, the next thing I do is try and get CM, or team with a Trader, or both. Because of the range on CB, I'm already at least 125 NCU down. With a perk in NCU extensions I'm at 609 NCU but the real world number on that is 609-45-52, take another 10 off that if I go NR1 because I lose the perk in NCU extensions.

So an operating NCU of 512, or 502 if I lose the NCU extensions perk. By the time an NT is fully self buffed, that's about 450 NCU taken.

Anyway, I'm digressing. Don't have to worry about AR? You're forgetting things like:

Nanos don't go OE. They either work, or they don't. So drains, dominates, incompetencies, Zap Nano, Crown of Frost and any other nanoskill debuff be it via perk or other nano, all -matter-.

If NTs could get the same AR as others -and- if nukes worked like perks, this wouldn't be a problem. If nanos worked like perks, CB could go away, or be turned into a short term self AR buff. But they don't work like perks. They work like regular hits. So even if I have 200 points more in my attack check than the target has NR, that target still has a good chance of resisting. Resisting a nano is fatal, because that's 5-7.5s out of the fight where all an NT can do move around.

So a whine to remove one part of the toolset can't be carried out before the gaping hole that would leave is sorted out. Don't go defensively setup on an NT? Ok, fine, then the NT defenses need to be boosted in that case. Even going AR setup only grants about 2.8k AR or so and there's still no big perk alpha unlike the rest of the offensive classes, while nerfing defense to -dodge- (duck and evade-clsc are lower), from around 2.8-3.1k static (2.9-3.1k includes towers) to less than 2.5k.

In other words, perk, regular hit and special meat to -everyone-.

The difference between CB and other "debuff" nanos, is CB lets the NT set about the task of killing the target. It still doesn't guarantee that kill unless you're up against a Fixer. Whereas debuffs like GTH make the task of killing the target somewhat trivial. As does Borrow Reflect. As does UBT vs casters. As do evade debuffs because if there's an evade debuff on the NT, then it's NBG time, which not only adds more time to the fight due to NBG recharge, but also puts a definite clock on the fight of 21 seconds. That's assuming NBG lasts that long.

Start factoring in counters to burst damage, debuffs, DoTs (SI is a -bitch- to land in PvP without CB) and now the NT may as well not have bothered getting involved in the fight in the first place.

I'm not saying CB is fine as it is. I've gone on record many times to say the duration is too long (while still being considerably shorter than other debuffs that can't be removed) and it should be removable out of fight. If you best an NT in an encounter you shouldn't then be vulnerable to others for the remainder of the duration of CB.

Raising the defense check too high isn't an option either. It's already split AR, if it was only based on MC then sure you could raise the defense check further, but again given the short timer based combat that is fighting for NTs if CB was 100% check or even 90% check, there's no mileage in standing around spamming it before other things need to be engaged like defensive nanos, or getting the hell out of the fight because if CB is a bitch to land then everything else apart from IU is a no go. No one feared IU spamming NTs before, they're not about to start now.

What none of you whiney types realise, is landing CB is not an auto win for the NT. It just means the NT for the next 60s can now work on engaging the target, rather than having various nano casts countered making the fight pointless.

Almost everything an NT does in combat has a downside, especially when dealing with group PvP. That downside is either long recharges, long cast times, long downtimes, being unable to move, only being able to do one thing at a time, etc.

The defense checks against perk vs NR changing will help, sure. But it doesn't take much to push your NR over what a PvP setup NT typically gets in MC unless you're one of those that is inherently gimped in nano resist.

Lastly, people who tweak/twink for NR, I highly and very much doubt you're doing that -just- because of NTs. It's still plenty effective against anyone else that checks nano resist. Does it not make sense that NTs, a profession that specialises in combat via offensive nanos, should have ways around protection that would otherwise render them offenseless?

[X-Styx-X]

(1)enf can reach 3k yes
Only docs can get 3k by going NR1
Rest need to go NR2 to reach 3k



(2)So what are your AR?...



(3)lol what?.. it seems you have played your NT way to long to know that every other profession NEED to work on his AR and Def, and it's a balance of both. if you want more def ur AR go down, and the other way around.

(4)Nt have automatic 2k+ AR. that is very close to what people have in NR. (basic)

(5)so it's not like NT have a hard time working on landing stuff. so they can total focus on defense as they have CB to debuff people to land stuff, and they have IU that only have 50% check.

(6)it's funny that you name the 3 professions that have the lowest evades in the game. (that is a hint on why they dont depend on def)

(7)Funny the engineer is the professions that use custom imps the most

1: i get 3K nr on a trox shade with only NR1 withoud any NR armor so .....
so stop saying people only get 2K ish , i get that withoud spirits/imps and no HHAB

2: Atm i have 2.8k ar after swapping(aiming on 3K) , but when i swap to full AR ... Def isn't even near usefull

3: don't realy understand what u said , but ofc u cant have huge ar and huge deff

4: if ur tl5 yes, if a tl7 can't get over over 2K nr something is wrong , anyone can use 300 NR imps,HHAB wich is over 2.5K , and add some NR armor an u get close to 3K, if u don't want to cuz it nerfs ur ar ... then accept nt's will be perking u

5: correct , my tool-set makes AR twinking not realy needed but i already mentioned allot of profs got that. can i ask u howmuch Deff ur engi has ? i'm pretty sure its not much cuz ur tool-set makes it useless. see how its the same ?

6: and a nt is one of the lowest AR profs in game , thats why they don't depend on ar ?
Those profs i mentioned have the lowest evades cuz they don't NEED too , not cuz they can't get high.

7: was in general

You are pretty clueless about pvp outside your proffession.

and what prof are u ? i played allmost every prof and pvp'ed with them

[XenonDe]

Lastly, people who tweak/twink for NR, I highly and very much doubt you're doing that -just- because of NTs. It's still plenty effective against anyone else that checks nano resist. Does it not make sense that NTs, a profession that specialises in combat via offensive nanos, should have ways around protection that would otherwise render them offenseless?

Currently I don't think anyone that bothers with NR does so because of NTs. It's defense against roots/snares/debuffs.

€:

1: i get 3K nr on a trox shade with only NR1 withoud any NR armor so .....
so stop saying people only get 2K ish , i get that withoud spirits/imps and no HHAB

Bull. with NR2 maybe.

[X-Styx-X]

Currently I don't think anyone that bothers with NR does so because of NTs. It's defense against roots/snares/debuffs.

agreed, thats why my toons got NR

[Kitesfear]

1: i get 3K nr on a trox shade with only NR1 withoud any NR armor so .....
so stop saying people only get 2K ish , i get that withoud spirits/imps and no HHAB

You're either flat out lying, or you're counting AAD on NR, which doesn't help against nanoes, only against perks.

[X-Styx-X]

You're either flat out lying, or you're counting AAD on NR, which doesn't help against nanoes, only against perks.

swapping NR gear is ftw
and i did mention Doc lub and nr1

[agentwolve]

swapping NR gear is ftw
and i did mention Doc lub and nr1

you said without NR gear tho .. no hhab, spirits/imps ... which basically means IP + trickle + nr 1, which is just over 1389 .. wheres there other 1600 ish from columbo without using spirits, or any NR items ^_^ and 1 perk in NR

[X-Styx-X]

you said without NR gear tho .. no hhab, spirits/imps ... which basically means IP + trickle + nr 1, which is just over 1389 .. wheres there other 1600 ish from columbo without using spirits, or any NR items ^_^ and 1 perk in NR

u must have miss read ^^

1: i get 3K nr on a trox shade with only NR1 withoud any NR armor so .....
so stop saying people only get 2K ish , i get that withoud spirits/imps and no HHAB

i get 2K+ withoud spirits and hhab with NR1
my nt can even go nr2 and get over 4K nr

toons rarely go maxed out on NR gear

[XenonDe]

u must have miss read ^^

1: i get 3K nr on a trox shade with only NR1 withoud any NR armor so .....
so stop saying people only get 2K ish , i get that withoud spirits/imps and no HHAB

i get 2K+ withoud spirits and hhab with NR1
my nt can even go nr2 and get over 4K nr

toons rarely go maxed out on NR gear

That is still a good 1k NR short. Without NR2 I don't see how you'll ever reach 3k NR on a shade without seriously gimping yourself in other ways. I'd be interested in your setup to see how you'll do it, until then I can only regard it as bull****.

Your NT going NR2 would only be possible because of the very same topic of this thread. Constant Barrage.

[Graviuz]

want to see that shades setup tbh ^^

[X-Styx-X]

That is still a good 1k NR short. Without NR2 I don't see how you'll ever reach 3k NR on a shade without seriously gimping yourself in other ways. I'd be interested in your setup to see how you'll do it, until then I can only regard it as bull.

Your NT going NR2 would only be possible because of the very same topic of this thread. Constant Barrage.

yeh that setup gimps me allot just pointing out its doable

to go NR2 on a nt means u got to twink allot of AR , like was said on this topic nt's don't do

[XenonDe]

Doable amounts to nothing. And even that I doubt. Without NR armor. Without Defense spirits. Without NR2 I don't see how you'll reach 3k NR. Even with NR armor and alll NR spirits I doubt you'll reach 3k NR without NR2.

Going NR2 on a NT should not even be possible. No amount of twinking should enable to go with a 600 points loss of AR. And it doesn't. It is only possible thanks to CB.
Nt's deserve to land their Nanos. But it shouldn't be possible to go NR1, NR2, get free perk land mode, ignore AR and go full defensive with just the cast of one nano.

[lazarus]

Going NR2 on a NT should not even be possible. No amount of twinking should enable to go with a 600 points loss of AR. And it doesn't. It is only possible thanks to CB.
Nt's deserve to land their Nanos. But it shouldn't be possible to go NR1, NR2, get free perk land mode, ignore AR and go full defensive with just the cast of one nano.

/thread nice footer

[X-Styx-X]

Doable amounts to nothing. And even that I doubt. Without NR armor. Without Defense spirits. Without NR2 I don't see how you'll reach 3k NR. Even with NR armor and alll NR spirits I doubt you'll reach 3k NR without NR2.

Going NR2 on a NT should not even be possible. No amount of twinking should enable to go with a 600 points loss of AR. And it doesn't. It is only possible thanks to CB.
Nt's deserve to land their Nanos. But it shouldn't be possible to go NR1, NR2, get free perk land mode, ignore AR and go full defensive with just the cast of one nano.

Sjeeze my english ain't great but ...
i never said i could get 3K+ nr withoud spirits and armor , read back up
i once made a 3080ish nr setup for a shade with just NR1 yeh , i made it as a joke
there ya go -> http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=146843 (add 50 from tower)
Remember trox shades don't need to work on AR since they got MR
and sofar i know shades only get 2 nr spirits so with imps/symbs u can get allot more (head imp)
That setup+alphas and stuff will still give u 3K+ ar drained and 3k+ def and ...3K nr ... not bad huh


Why shouldn't nr2 be possible on a nt ?
u do know what that means for a nt ?

first he has to twink full out on AR wich means he'll have USELESS deff (3k AR and 3K deff isnot doable)
then he can perk NR2 and lose all his AR

so he'll have no deff and no AR ...
nt's only go nr2 when they get pissed at traders :')


U do know traders can go nr2 withoud much loss to ar or nanoskills cuz of what .... a nano called drains , ain't that same as nt's ?
and there are many more that can go nr2 and still be good at pvp.

why is nt so special ? we can't have Dmg , we can't have good debuffs, we can't go nr2 ?
what are we allowed ?

[Fifty50]

Doable amounts to nothing. And even that I doubt. Without NR armor. Without Defense spirits. Without NR2 I don't see how you'll reach 3k NR. Even with NR armor and alll NR spirits I doubt you'll reach 3k NR without NR2.

Going NR2 on a NT should not even be possible. No amount of twinking should enable to go with a 600 points loss of AR. And it doesn't. It is only possible thanks to CB.
Nt's deserve to land their Nanos. But it shouldn't be possible to go NR1, NR2, get free perk land mode, ignore AR and go full defensive with just the cast of one nano.

This is a very good point Xenon. X-Styx-X, is obviously clueless. His facts are way off, and can't be taken serious. Hopefully most readers will see this. Notice how the NT spam-squad is not even backing him up?

2.2-2.3k NR is very real for end game fixers and adventurers.. Soldiers are worse.. other profs Iam not sure about, but I not gonna make up stuff like X-Styx-X, to try to prove a point.

[mr_road]

1: i get 3K nr on a trox shade with only NR1 withoud any NR armor so ..... i get that withoud spirits/imps and no HHAB

Sjeeze my english ain't great but ...
i never said i could get 3K+ nr withoud spirits and armor , read back up

??????

i once made a 3080ish nr setup for a shade with just NR1 yeh , i made it as a joke
there ya go -> http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=146843 (add 50 from tower)
Remember trox shades don't need to work on AR since they got MR
and sofar i know shades only get 2 nr spirits so with imps/symbs u can get allot more (head imp)
That setup+alphas and stuff will still give u 3K+ ar drained and 3k+ def and ...3K nr ... not bad huh

too right its a joke. if it is a joke, why bring it up when arguing about how much NR professions can get ? there is a huge difference between 'joke' setups and practical setups.

[Moonbolt]

because he was flat out lying to try and make a point and then people called him out on it and he felt the need to prove his point.
then he realised no sane shade would run with that setup so he admitted it was a joke setup.
basically dont take him serius, hes just doin random statements to get peolpe to stop complaining about CB.

that said. i dont agree that CB needs to be removed. it might have to be turned down a bit but NTs need to a way to land their nukes. tho i do agree that 100% landing chance of nukes is to much.