Breed balancing

[Dafie]

is it me or does pvp rulz or mechanic sightly in advantage of atrox breed?

can we change that? am an opifex can i have mongo rage plax? tryed the blinded be suny delitgh well didn't see much differance.

[Fifty50]

Ever increasing ability buffers have removed Atrox's down sides, like not being able to equip ql300 symbs in all locations, and their used to be slow nano delta is now on par with nano mages'.

Only reason I can see to roll anything else would be if the profession u want has no, but need healing, assuming the prof in question has good offensive tools. Like soldier and Crats are prolly better as Solitus, for the survival perk.

Nano mage is good for NTs and Traders because they have nanoes favoring mages.

Other than that, I think you are right!

[Notcrattey]

Most of the breed perks are complete suck when compared to atrox's.

[Neon_1]

Most of the breed perks are complete suck when compared to atrox's.

I agree. For starters, everybody has infinite nano pool. To start rebalancing, that should be fixed to give other breeds(namely NM) advantages over trox, something like;

Reduce the ND in following way;

- NM: reduce nd about 50% from current
- Soli: - 60%
- Opi: - 70%
- Atx: - 80%

In addition, reduce the -% nanocost caps on each breed to the following;

- NM: reduce -% cap to 40%
- Soli: - 35%
- Opi: - 25%
- Atrx: - 20%

And voila, we have a start ! Then do the following;

- reduce MR effectiveness to +550AR, add duration to 20s, 2min recharge

- move Wit to Opis with +450aad for 20s, 2min recharge (as final perk ofc)

- soli hot is fine, maybe increase the healing done and reduce the recharge

- bring some kind of dmg reducer to NM, maybe similar to NT:s, but doesnt empty your nanopool. ofc the shielding effect cant be that good either. ill leave it open for debate.

[Troxxor]

I've got to agree, breed balance is definitely something that FC should be considering.

I'm looking forward to seeing what this FwM brings, I hope at least a look at the General perks... maybe more if we're lucky. At the mo we really still don't have the full picture.

[iolanda]

You people seem to have some isues and forget the part where some items are breed locked also . The nm cocon is suerly a very big asset . Aslo for example some proffesions actualy win alot from beeing opifex , ive seen posts where for example only opifex trader can cap As using def hud3 or some specific setup wich wins alot over any other breed with the same setup , also crats had a post about it . Over all you have to look at abit more then perks .

[ragerayden]

With the absorb rule nm coon is next to useless.
Not to mention it's a tl7 only item.

[iolanda]

With the absorb rule nm coon is next to useless.
Not to mention it's a tl7 only item.

So is MR and Survival , under tl7 we got wit , tacky hack (or w/e its called) , blind .

[erozc]

In addition, reduce the -% nanocost caps on each breed to the following;

- NM: reduce -% cap to 40%
- Soli: - 35%
- Opi: - 25%
- Atrx: - 20%

And voila, we have a start !

Yeah kinda, but instead / besides of reducing cap, -% effectiviness should be halved so that capped cost wouldn't be automatic...

[Kazeran]

I agree. For starters, everybody has infinite nano pool. To start rebalancing, that should be fixed to give other breeds(namely NM) advantages over trox, something like;

Reduce the ND in following way;

- NM: reduce nd about 50% from current
- Soli: - 60%
- Opi: - 70%
- Atx: - 80%

In addition, reduce the -% nanocost caps on each breed to the following;

- NM: reduce -% cap to 40%
- Soli: - 35%
- Opi: - 25%
- Atrx: - 20%

Why is soli better then opi in both cases, while everything else nano related in general between them is the same? You wanted balance but wouldn't that just be unblancing it even further?

[Moonbolt]

- NM: reduce nd about 50% from current
- Soli: - 60%
- Opi: - 70%
- Atx: - 80%

In addition, reduce the -% nanocost caps on each breed to the following;

- NM: reduce -% cap to 40%
- Soli: - 35%
- Opi: - 25%
- Atrx: - 20%
.

this is outright stupid tbh.
all the atrox docs thats playing this game?
Atrox enforcers that already are struggling with nano?
Atrox traders that are playing this game?
Atrox MPs?
Atrox MAs?
Atrox Advs?

u think they should hve basically 0 chance of keeping a nano pool for more then a couple of seconds?

this suggestion would just destroy PvM for all those classes at the same time as it destroys the pvp for those classes.

fixing the breed imbalance is simple.
remove the ations on the genome perks lines and have them as buffing perk lines only.

but PLZ ... stop talking about reducing the nano deltas.
ND is the one thing that actually make it possible to manage their nano pool as a profession.

edit:
u also seem to forget that the bonuses atroxes get from HP is a complete dissadventage now that every calss has a capping 11 second special, and the difference in HP is quite minor at 220 while it comes at a lower nano pool, lesser -nanocost cap and a harder time twinking.

THINK before starting posts.

[randomalpha]

y general look , "trox got MR nerf this plz" ?
well will tell u few stuff about trox u may not know from soldier view
1st there is some alpha's that no way to equip them as trox even with all current buffing items ingame
2nd to self AMS V i have to stick with certain setup that i don't want for my PVP goal so i am sticking with AMS 3
3rd to swap nano drain ring 900 int i have to make 12 swap
4th to swap any of alb/db bracer i have to do about 13 swap too
5th i can't keep my 300 css out of OE self

lets see nanomage
u have 5k cocon at Tl7 , u can self ur nanos easily , got gr8 ND very early , can sacrifice some nano gear for w/e else gear u want instead of wasting 10 perks for 10s MR u can spend them in some other option

oh u opifex
the easiest breed to twink in the game u can twink ur alpha with just 60% of the twinking items needed to twink beta on trox , u blind perk not that bad too


if u r soli u got all the advantages just not stretched decent AR/deff from sphere , well balanced breed still have survival for healing option not hug heal but still handy in lots of situation , can self ur nanos w/o much of pain twinking alpha's is same as nanos for ya

finaly i don't see any reason for the complains about MR it only affect evaders which is fix,adv,ma,crat,keeper,traders ?
well for fix they are unperkable even with MR unless itis perk with very low check and u can rarly find good perk that do this
adv they just gonna cocon
ma do chain stun or just pump cib
keepers got cocon too
crats either stun u , or pop there insane deff perks

or well just roll trox if itis that uber !

[McKnuckleSamwich]

imo, MR needs to be high enough that in an AR setup a DD prof can pop it AND hit an evade prof under DOF, not ES/DS though, and with the timing nerf on these, that 30 seconds should provide immunity to perks time.

so, 650, or so should be fine.

Also dof needs a nerf at sub 207.

MR is the effective counter for DOF, so, sub 207 DOF needs a nerf to a level which provides a [safer] time, but not [complete lolwut invulnerability].

[Neon_1]

this is outright stupid tbh.

all the atrox docs thats playing this game?
Atrox enforcers that already are struggling with nano?
Atrox traders that are playing this game?
Atrox MPs?
Atrox MAs?
Atrox Advs?

Thats called adjusting. I know, Troxes havent had to do that for a long time. Thats shocking, I know, especially if you are trox Advy. Poor troxies.

u think they should hve basically 0 chance of keeping a nano pool for more then a couple of seconds?

this suggestion would just destroy PvM for all those classes at the same time as it destroys the pvp for those classes.

but PLZ ... stop talking about reducing the nano deltas.
ND is the one thing that actually make it possible to manage their nano pool as a profession.

Lol. What a bunch of crap. Atm nobody needs to check their nano, because their nanopool wont go under 75% in any circumstance(bit exaggerated, but still..). Why is that ? It definetly wouldnt destroy PVP, and wouldnt destroy PVM either. Where do you get those ideas ? You just wouldnt be able to spam Mango/heal for 30mins straight, which imo would be reasonable. And this way the breeds would actually have differences, differend pros and cons. Now this is basically Atrox online. The numbers are just examples to give some direction to discussion, but still I think they are somewhat in right area. Adjusting figures just 5% to direction or another wont do squat.

edit:
u also seem to forget that the bonuses atroxes get from HP is a complete dissadventage now that every calss has a capping 11 second special, and the difference in HP is quite minor at 220 while it comes at a lower nano pool, lesser -nanocost cap and a harder time twinking.

THINK before starting posts.

Buhuuu, we atrox are like so nerfed already. Get a grip. I dont know where have you been hiding for last 3+ years, but overall Trox is still top choice for many profs. "Every prof has 11s capping special" .....lol......you must be one of those "Atrox enfs are the nerfest"- ppl. You say that you have to think before posting, but imo you should start waking up to real world, and notice that Atrox isnt the nerfest breed, on the contrary its the leader breed atm. Everybody having infinite nanopool is silly, and MR is stupid in its current form. I know that playing OP class/breed combo is kinda nice, and it would be a true "shame" that it would be somewhat "nerfed"......

[Moonbolt]

wow lol...

hmm ok lets see...
im a trox enf myself so i cant do numbers and whatnot for the other professions but i know for a fact that with PNH/IOR while tanking a raid, if i dont have a keeper/MP in team i do run out of nano pretty fast.
with the suggestions in this post i wouldnt make it past the first group of mobs before the raid wiped.

and ur talking about adjusting?
i dont know wich part of the game u enjoy playing but it sure isnt raiding or pvp or soloing.
or atleast thats the parts of the games i would fail misserably at playign as a trox enf w/o nano delta.

and ur also talking about trox being the top choice for many players.
yes. i give u that.
heavy perk reliant professions like enforcers, shades and keepers have chosen the atrox breed .
who can blame them when 9 professions out of 14 have the ability to get unperkable for anyone w/o MR.

if MR wouldnt excist almost noone that has a clue about the game would chose Atrox as their breed unless it was for the cool factor.

what u are describing in the post above has nothing to do with BALANCE.
the suggestions in this thread would just shift the balance in favour of nano mages instead.

there is alot of posts on changing MR on this forums.
i have posted in several of them, i do also want a change to MR.
but tbh to remove MR from the game needs a complete workthru of perk actions vs evades.

[ArienSky]

all the atrox docs thats playing this game?
Atrox enforcers that already are struggling with nano?
Atrox traders that are playing this game?
Atrox MPs?
Atrox MAs?
Atrox Advs?

u think they should hve basically 0 chance of keeping a nano pool for more then a couple of seconds?

Yes, that is the idea, I am glad you can see the point.
Please go to the folder: Anarchy Online\cd_image\sound\voice
and listen to CHAR_CRE_6.wav to CHAR_CRE_9.wav

There you will hear the strengths and weaknesses of the various breeds.
under character creation you will also see it as text.
You are clearly informed that "the increase in musclemass and testosterone level leaves the Atrox with a lack of mental capabilities and limited potential in nano-programing".

In other words, if you did not get it under character creation: there is supposed to be a difference between the breeds; they are not supposed to be the same.
and endomorph Atrox should not be able to handle the same nano programs as an ectomorph nanomage equally well.

Sadly the community has only asked for nanoprograms that every breed can use, including Atroxes, meaning that another lever to adjusts is Nano Delta and -cost %
I like that idea. As it is now, I advice people to not choose nanomage, in most situations there are better breeds, no matter the profession.
As mentioned before, those adjustments would affect all title levels, where breed perks and items often are locked to endgame, making lvling more dull for the lesser breeds.

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

PS. yes I think that endomorph should have a + to HP and ectomorph a + to agility.
(endomorph = fat, ectomorph = thin, mesomorph = medium
CHAR_CRE_14.wav)

another interesting point, in CHAR_CRE_17.wav it says:
"you may also change your profession later, outside the lab, but each breed has a different genetic profession-saturation, this prevents you from changing your profession more than a few times, during your lifetime"

Means has mentioned that he liked the concept of "back to basics" meaning that professions will get back to being defined as they were in those sound files I mention here, hopefully that will stretch to the breeds to.
That each profession/breed will have advantages and unique things, not just be teh same, or there being one "best".

[Moonbolt]

of all the silly and stupid threads ive seen this has gotta be one of the worst.
the changes suggested wouldnt give an adventage to nano mages over atroxes.
it would destroy any chance of actually playing atrox for most professions.
but nvm i guess u guys are just tired of seing bulky dudes running around.

instead of jumping on the genome changes that has been suggested and that most people actually agree to(including changing MR), u wanna get rid of the atrox breed as a whole.

well GL to u theres no chance that this even gets under consideration.

[Dafie]

i wasn't saying FC should nerf atrox nano even more (think it's already enough)
am just saying that other breed should have perks with equal power.

opi get 5% nano skill drain and -400init for same perks price (what is this crap lol?)

if at least this opi perk was negate the atrox one (and vice versa) i would say it's balanced

[Kazeran]

Theres alittle white word with a arrow pointing down next to it... Its very helpful, just need to learn how to use it...

This thread about those perks has already been started and made with valid points. Was never a need to start another based on the same subject asking about the same things.

[ArienSky]

This thread about those perks has already been started and made with valid points. Was never a need to start another based on the same subject asking about the same things.

That thread is about perklines
This one is about balancing the breeds, whatever means that is; breed caps, IP costs, items etc.

perks != breed balancing as you can see in the, in my opinion great, suggestion below.

Reduce the ND in following way;

- NM: reduce nd about 50% from current
- Soli: - 60%
- Opi: - 70%
- Atx: - 80%

In addition, reduce the -% nanocost caps on each breed to the following;

- NM: reduce -% cap to 40%
- Soli: - 35%
- Opi: - 25%
- Atrx: - 20%

that the breeds are re-balanced, not only on the attributes, but other parameters as well.
With the above adjustments, it would be logical to adjust Heal Delta on breeds too.

The current problem is balancing though, that some breeds are very good, while others are next to worthless.
Sure, Atrox should have more HP than nanomages, but it should be a viable choice to be a nanomage, not something you laugh at.

As I see it, Atroxes uses brawn(streangth) while Nanomages use technology.
Atrox have HP, Nanomages a shield.
Sadly Atrox get HP for all levels, why the shield is a TL7 item.

That is why I like this thread and Neon_1's post; we need general modifications on how the breeds work.
that being IP-costs, lowering/rising of Nano Delta, evades etc.

Sure AO is based on IP, by gaining higher Agi, opifex can get higher evades.
the problem as I see it, is that nanomages just get higher nanoskills, which are not needed.
The only nanoskills you need is enough to cast your nanoes, then you do not need more. (apart from PVP where traders drain you, in PVM you are rarely drained).
That is an imbalance, where you can always use more HP.
When Atrox, the least intelligent breed, hits the cap of Nano Delta, there is a fault, when the Nanomages hits the Heal Delta cap, that is a problem too.

Balancing, when we talk breed, is for there to be a difference, a choice.

Kind Regards
-Ariensky